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Peter Ferlicca

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Lefties at Augusta
« on: April 11, 2014, 07:45:08 PM »
If Bubba goes on to win this years Masters, does it officially prove that Augusta is favored to lefties that can hit a cut.  It seems far too often that every year there is a lefty at the top of the leaderboard.  18 is the only hole that could be a little scary for them.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 08:11:42 PM by Peter Ferlicca »

J.D. Griffith

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2014, 08:18:00 PM »
Lefty didn't fare too well this year though.  Luke Donald seems to be frustrated by AGNC on a yearly basis.

Brett_Morrissy

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2014, 08:52:27 PM »
isn't it any player that hits it high and shapes it right to left - irrelevant to which side of the ball they stand?
@theflatsticker

Peter Ferlicca

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2014, 09:10:38 PM »
Brett,

Yes you could say that, but the all important twelve hole has a major advantage to a lefty, with the way the green is set at a 45 degree angle from low left to high right.  When a lefty hits a pull, his long left pull will probably still hit the green.  When a lefty hits it a tad fat or a block, it will still probably hit the left side of the green.  When it comes to righties on that hole, as we saw Adam Scott on Thursday, if you hit it a tad fat, it will hit the slope on the right and go right into the water, and a hot pull will end up long in the bushes or bunker. 

David_Tepper

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2014, 10:49:22 PM »
Peter F. -

I was going to start a thread about this myself, as 5 of the last 11 Masters have been won by lefties. This year could make it 6 of 12.

If one thinks that hitting a controlled fade is easier than hitting a controlled draw (as I do ;)), than the right-to-left ball flight required at Augusta (that Brett M. refers to) would tend to favor a left-handed player.

In theory at least!

DT

Mike_Young

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2014, 10:52:32 PM »
The second shot from the fairway on 13 is extremely difficult for the average lefty...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2014, 11:03:02 PM »
The second shot from the fairway on 13 is extremely difficult for the average lefty...

Isn't that why Mickelson keeps hitting it up the hill in the pine straw, to give himself a flatter lie?

Matthew Rose

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2014, 02:39:50 AM »
I used to think this.... with #12 being the prime example.

But #16 is also reversed, and I think that's a harder hole for them.

American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Jim Nugent

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 04:13:15 AM »
Peter F. -

I was going to start a thread about this myself, as 5 of the last 11 Masters have been won by lefties. This year could make it 6 of 12.


Before that, though, through all the decades starting in 1934, I think lefties won zero Masters. 

My guess is the recent streak has more to do with the specific players.  Mickelson is one of the all-time greats.  No shock that he wins at ANGC, or anywhere.  Bubba is one of the most talented golfers today, whose bombing-yet-creative game fits Augusta perfectly.  Weir, a fine player, caught fire in 2003, as some other players have done there. 



John DAngelo

Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 07:51:45 AM »
Peter F. -

I was going to start a thread about this myself, as 5 of the last 11 Masters have been won by lefties. This year could make it 6 of 12.


Before that, though, through all the decades starting in 1934, I think lefties won zero Masters. 

My guess is the recent streak has more to do with the specific players.  Mickelson is one of the all-time greats.  No shock that he wins at ANGC, or anywhere.  Bubba is one of the most talented golfers today, whose bombing-yet-creative game fits Augusta perfectly.  Weir, a fine player, caught fire in 2003, as some other players have done there. 




I walked the course during the practice round on Tuesday and , as a leftie with a fade, it sure suited my eye. Except, of course, 18, which kind of looked like a nightmare.

Slightly off topic, one of the players I followed was Couples; his swing has certainly aged well!

Jim Nugent

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 09:15:42 AM »
isn't it any player that hits it high and shapes it right to left - irrelevant to which side of the ball they stand?

Interesting that the golfer with the lowest career scoring average during the Masters (for players with at least 100 rounds) is Fred Couples.  Fred plays a left to right fade. 

David_Tepper

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2014, 10:15:00 AM »
"Before that, though, through all the decades starting in 1934, I think lefties won zero Masters."  

Jim Nugent -

Aside from Bob Charles, were there any left-handed golfers of any consequence whatsoever prior to Phil Mickelson?

Former lefty tour player Steve Flesch commented on the Golf Channel that the modern golf ball was much easier to fade than draw. He feels that gives lefties an advantage at AGNC.

DT  

P.S. The fact that faders Couples & Nicklaus have had so much success at AGNC is likely due, among other things, to the facts that they are 1) very long and 2) hit the ball very high so that it lands softly on the greens. Trevino, another fader of the ball was neither and rarely played his best at AGNC.   
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 11:14:08 AM by David_Tepper »

Jim Nugent

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2014, 12:56:39 PM »
David, Bob Charles did not do well at the Masters.  He missed the cut a lot, had no top tens.  His best result was a T15.  

Whereas he had 3 top 10s at the U.S. Open, including two 3rds... won the British Open, placed 2nd twice, had 3 other top 10s... and tied for 2nd once in the PGA.  i.e. his worst results by far came at Augusta.  

I bet you are right about hitting it high and long.  But that seems to me more important than righty vs lefty.  If Phil and Bubba hit from the right side, you think they wouldn't have as much success?  

I know Trevino didn't do well at the Masters, and felt the course didn't fit his flight path well.  I always wondered if he hadn't psyched himself out though.

ETA: looking for articles to support my position, I instead found a bunch of pro's agreeing with your point, David.     

« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 01:32:58 PM by Jim Nugent »

David_Tepper

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2014, 02:08:52 PM »
Jim N. -

I think Steve Flesch's comment about the "new" golf ball being easier to fade than draw is key and the reason why lefties have done so well since the Pro-V style ball was been introduced. It seems that now anytime a pro golfer wants to hit a draw off the tee, they use a 3-wood. I assume that is because hitting a draw reliably with a driver is too difficult.

How many lefties are in the field this week? Unless Brian Harman was in the field, it was Phil, Bubba & Mike Weir. Granted, it is easy to confuse coincidence with causation, but a statistician would say that when 100% of the lefties in field are past winners, that is worth noting.

DT 

Sam Morrow

Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 12:07:54 AM »
How come Steve Flesch and Russ Cochran never won at Augusta? Think about the lefty's who have won, Weir was a very good player, he won 3 times in 03. He was for a time a legit top 15 or so in the world. Phil Mickelson is one of the greatest players of all time. As much as I don't like Bubba he's been one of the best players in the world the last 5 years or so. It has nothing to do with them being lefty, it has everything to do with them being world class players.

David_Tepper

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 10:52:20 AM »
"How come Steve Flesch and Russ Cochran never won at Augusta?"

Sam M. -

The fact that neither Flesch nor Cochran ever won the Masters does nothing to refute the notion that AGNC tends to favor a lefty who can play a fade. That notion certainly does not imply that every lefty who ever played in the Masters should have won or will win the event.

DT  

P.S. Flesch's strongest finishes in the Majors have been at the Masters. ;)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 11:28:53 AM by David_Tepper »

Sam Morrow

Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2014, 05:07:21 PM »
"How come Steve Flesch and Russ Cochran never won at Augusta?"

Sam M. -

The fact that neither Flesch nor Cochran ever won the Masters does nothing to refute the notion that AGNC tends to favor a lefty who can play a fade. That notion certainly does not imply that every lefty who ever played in the Masters should have won or will win the event.

DT  

P.S. Flesch's strongest finishes in the Majors have been at the Masters. ;)

Good point but my point of using them was that people make this blanket statement about lefty's who can hit a cut have this advantage at Augusta.

Mike_Young

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2014, 05:54:56 PM »
Mizuno says only 3% of USA golfers are LH and close to 20% of Canadians due to Hockey....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2014, 05:59:45 PM »
"Mizuno says only 3% of USA golfers are LH and close to 20% of Canadians due to Hockey.."

Mike Y. -

Legend has it the highest percentage of lefty golfers in the world is in the area around Kingussie-Newtonmare in the Scottish Highlands, where the game of shinty (a field hockey-like game) is very popular.

From David Owen's 2007 article in Golf Digest:

"When we had finished, we had a drink with a group of regulars sitting at two picnic tables outside the clubhouse. One of them told me, "Kingussie has more left-handed and cross-handed players than any other golf club in the world" -- a consequence, he said, of the town's intense devotion to shinty, a bruising Highlands stick game that is similar to the Irish sport hurling (from which it evolved) and to field hockey, and in which there is a tactical advantage to playing from the wrong side of the ball, apparently. No, no, another member insisted: There are more left-handed golfers in Newtonmore, Kingussie's principal shinty rival, three miles to the west. The conversation then veered into a discussion of Newtonmore's golf course, which my new friends unanimously dismissed as too flat to bother with."

DT  
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 06:03:10 PM by David_Tepper »

Phil McDade

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2014, 10:31:51 PM »
David:

Doesn't Kingussie hold an annual tournament for lefties? I seem to recall something like that when I visited the club.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2014, 10:57:35 PM »
I think this lefty thing is a product of a mass media grasping at straws for something new to write. Shame on us, supposed golf experts, for falling for it.

Augusta is an easy course for a righty with a controlled draw. #news
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2014, 11:03:41 PM »
Peter F. -

I was going to start a thread about this myself, as 5 of the last 11 Masters have been won by lefties. This year could make it 6 of 12.


Before that, though, through all the decades starting in 1934, I think lefties won zero Masters. 

My guess is the recent streak has more to do with the specific players.  Mickelson is one of the all-time greats.  No shock that he wins at ANGC, or anywhere.  Bubba is one of the most talented golfers today, whose bombing-yet-creative game fits Augusta perfectly.  Weir, a fine player, caught fire in 2003, as some other players have done there. 




How many of those years had zero lefties?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Dan Smoot

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2014, 11:19:11 PM »
I know Trevino didn't do well at the Masters, and felt the course didn't fit his flight path well.  I always wondered if he hadn't psyched himself out though.

ETA: looking for articles to support my position, I instead found a bunch of pro's agreeing with your point, David.     



There was a group interview within the past few years with the Big Three plus Trevino.  Nicklaus looked right at Trevino and told him that there was no reason he couldn't have won at Augusta.  His ball striking ability, mental toughness and putting was sufficient.

Jim Nugent

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2014, 11:51:45 PM »
Augusta is an easy course for a righty with a controlled draw. #news

Especially one who hits the ball 365 yards off the tee, and has wedges into par 5s with his second shot. 

Say everything about Bubba's game was the same -- length, creativity, flight path (right to left) -- but he was a righty.  So instead of fading the ball, he drew it, albeit from the right side.  Would he not do as well at Augusta? 

David_Tepper

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Re: Lefties at Augusta
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2014, 12:23:17 AM »
Jim N. & Ronald M. -

The operating premise here (as stated by Steve Flesch) is that it is easier to hit a reliable fade with the Pro-V type golf ball than it is to hit a draw. There were right-handed golfers who are as long as Bubba, yet they were using 3-woods off the tee on #13.

DT

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