Playing the great courses in Scotland and Ireland

[David Ober]

Hello everyone!

I will be in Scotland and Ireland in mid-July this year. Four couples are going together, and one of the guys is qualifying for the British Senior Open. We are looking to play as many of the greats as possible. I'm thinking Royal County Down and Royal Portrush for sure, and we are likely going to stay near St. Andrews when we are in Scotland. Any and all hints, tips, suggestions, warnings, etc. are greatly appreciated.

We will likely rent a cottage in Scotland and then another in Ireland. 6 or 7 days in Scotland and 4 or 5 in Ireland.

I've never been, and I simply can't wait. I'm 46, and I need to do this while I still have a chance to break par on any given day! :-)
 

[Garland Bayley]

Hello everyone!

I will be in Scotland and Ireland in mid-July this year. Four couples are going together, and one of the guys is qualifying for the British Senior Open. We are looking to play as many of the greats as possible. I'm thinking Royal County Down and Royal Portrush for sure, and we are likely going to stay near St. Andrews when we are in Scotland. Any and all hints, tips, suggestions, warnings, etc. are greatly appreciated.

We will likely rent a cottage in Scotland and then another in Ireland. 6 or 7 days in Scotland and 4 or 5 in Ireland.

I've never been, and I simply can't wait. I'm 46, and I need to do this while I still have a chance to break par on any given day! :-)
 

There we go. Pencil and paper already. Aren't we glad Jeff is building courses with six tees so that you'll be able to break par when you are 85 and beyond!

[Jon Wiggett]

David,

if you have not already then you need to get your accommodation sorted. It would not be the easiest thing in a normal year for a group of eight as mid July is right in the middle of the Scottish & English school holidays but this year there are the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow at the end of July which has booked out most places within an hours drive. If you can find it then stay in St. Andrews itself and just enjoy the atmosphere.

Jon

[Jason Topp]

David - you will have a fabulous time.  Northern Ireland is on my bucket list so I cannot help you there.  With respect to Scotland, where you should play depends on your appetite for driving, your willingness to spend money and the availability of tee times at this late date.  While the details might be a challenge, I have no doubt you will find plenty of great golf on your trip.

Staying in St. Andrews - Carnoustie, Gleneagles, North Berwick, Gullane, Muifield, Kingsbarns as well as the Old Course are all within a reasonable drive.  My father and I drove from St. Andrews to Turnberry, played 36 and got back by bedtime one memorable day.  The country is small enough that such an itinerary is possible.

Do not miss out on playing some of the second tier courses such as Elie, Lundin Links, The New Course, and Crail.  I find I enjoy these type of venues as much, if not more than the big names and, in many cases, you save substantial money.

Others here have recommended this travel planner  http://www.fergusongolf.com/

His advice makes sense to me and it might make the most sense to consult with Mr. Ferguson. 

Here is a link to George Peper's 2005 article on the options for playing the Old Course: 

http://www.linksmagazine.com/best_of_golf/letter-from-st-andrews-once-before-you-die

Others can chime in on whether any of the advice is now out of date.  I have waited in line early in the morning and gotten on through a tour operator.  I have never successfully gotten a time through the ballot.

[Graylyn Loomis]

Jason,

I would recommend basing yourself in St Andrews for the Scotland leg of the trip. There are so many great courses within driving distance of St Andrews that are easily played on day trips out from the town.

The St Andrews Old Course, St Andrews New Course, Kingsbarns, Crail (Balcomie), and Elie are all courses in the immediate St Andrews area that are certainly worth playing. A day trip (or two) to East Lothian is also worth looking into where you'll find Gullane, North Berwick, Muirfield etc. A more complete guide to these courses near St Andrews can be found here: (http://bit.ly/MvPpdX)

Another benefit of staying in St Andrews is that you can dedicate multiple days to entering the Old Course ballot. If you miss the ballot on any given day, just head down to the New Course, Jubilee Course, or Castle Course.

[Sean Walsh]

Graylyn,

Always preferred the Eden (the 14 good holes - rarely played 14/15) as the backup plan. Some really interesting stuff. 1st green, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 11th, 17th. And because it's usually only the locals on it it's quick too. The New's great but the Jubilee can be a grind, always seemed the course where the enjoyment of the round was detrimentally effected by the wind - whereas wind on the Old and New enhanced the experience.

   

[Mark Pearce]

Graylyn,

Always preferred the Eden (the 14 good holes - rarely played 14/15) as the backup plan. Some really interesting stuff. 1st green, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 11th, 17th. And because it's usually only the locals on it it's quick too. The New's great but the Jubilee can be a grind, always seemed the course where the enjoyment of the round was detrimentally effected by the wind - whereas wind on the Old and New enhanced the experience.

   

+1

[Bob_Huntley]

David,

If you play the Irish courses first, pop on the ferry to Ayrshire and play Turnberry and Western Gails The latter is one of my favorites on the west side .

Bob

[Jeff Johnston]

David, as a N Ireland native, for that leg of the trip I'd recommend one night (at least) in the Slieve Donard Hotel in Newcastle (backs onto the golf club, with signs in the lobby for the golf clubhouse) and base yourselves on the north coast (Portrush or environs) the rest of the time.

At RCD, try to give yourselves time to play the second course as well (the Annesley) - lots of quirk, short par 4s etc, and a lot of fun.

At Portrush, definitely play the second course when you are there - the Valley - a cracking (and fun) links in its own right (and highly regarded my Mr Doak of this parish I believe). You are also v close to Portstewart there (must play, sensational front 9) and also Castlerock, another strong links. Just along the coast from Castlerock, you can catch the Lough Foyle ferry (crossing of 10/15 mins)which leaves you pretty handy to Ballyliffin for their excellent 36. Rosapenna and Portsalon are also reachable, but a bit more of a drive. If time permits, a tour of the Bushmills Distillery is worth a look (and if you want to push the boat out, the close-by Bushmills Inn is a great, cosy place to stay).

however you do it, you'll get a big welcome - enjoy.

[Jud_T]

IMHO:

Must Plays, 36 if possible:

TOC, Prestwick, Ballybunion Old, Lahinch, Portmarnock, RCD

Well Worth Making Time For:

Baltray, The Island, Carnoustie, Kingsbarns

Courses I'd Finesse Next Time:

The European Club, Turnberry, Waterville, Ballybunion Cashen

[David Ober]

So it looks like we might be staying at Doonbeg in a home of some sort. Is Doonbeg worth playing? We will definitely play Lahinch, and whatever else is around there. Have heard Doonbeg can be quite a tough course to walk? I'm a fat American. Should I steer clear of Doonbeg??? 

[Tony_Muldoon]

So it looks like we might be staying at Doonbeg in a home of some sort. Is Doonbeg worth playing? We will definitely play Lahinch, and whatever else is around there. Have heard Doonbeg can be quite a tough course to walk? I'm a fat American. Should I steer clear of Doonbeg??? 

David from the house you are less than half an hour from Lahinch which is in my top 5 of courses I would play every day for the rest of my life. Plus they do a deal if you book two days in a row.

For an idea of "whatever else"
http://www.golfadventureguides.com/IrelandGolfSat/

Suffice to say the other alternatives are a bit further south and involve a road detour or timing to hit the ferry.  You can get a good idea of the times using

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=aa+route+planner+ireland

  Ballybunion is no more than an hour and half by car and It’s the other unmissable destination in the South West. The second course there is not everyone’s cup of tea but I loved the rollercoaster golf.

A little further gets you to Tralee – much better than it’s reputation from it’s early days.

Next heading south is Dooks – likely to be the surprise of the tour,, but it's quite a drive.

Waterville is a bit of a stretch for a day return.  It appeals most to the championship golfer but leaves me feeling a little tepid.

The only one I haven’t played is Doonbeg.  All reports say it’s a real mix of the very good and the awkward.  Suffice to say I’m intrigued and it would fit in your schedule on a day when you are travelling to or from the airport.

Enjoy the trip.

[Charlie Gallagher]

David,
   Jud T mentioned Baltray known formally as County Louth. This course sits at the mouth of the Boyne river, about 55 minutes from down town Dublin, sort of in between Dublin and Newcastle where Royal County Down is located. The course is rimmed by a barrier dune, so you don't get the sweeping vistas you encounter at Portrush or RCD, but the 18 holes there comprise one of the best links in Ireland. Tom Simpson laid out a rollicking and very challenging course on the site, which presents one strategic challenge after another. The greens and associated collection areas are some of the best on the planet. I consider this enclosed gem to be a vastly underrated course and strongly recommend you consider it in your itinerary. Any time I'm near Dublin it's the first course on the play list for me.

[Jason Topp]

I think you will be ok walking Doonbeg.  I do not remember it being a real difficult walk. 

Play multiple rounds at Lahinch

[Martin Toal]

David, as a N Ireland native, for that leg of the trip I'd recommend one night (at least) in the Slieve Donard Hotel in Newcastle (backs onto the golf club, with signs in the lobby for the golf clubhouse) and base yourselves on the north coast (Portrush or environs) the rest of the time.

At RCD, try to give yourselves time to play the second course as well (the Annesley) - lots of quirk, short par 4s etc, and a lot of fun.

At Portrush, definitely play the second course when you are there - the Valley - a cracking (and fun) links in its own right (and highly regarded my Mr Doak of this parish I believe). You are also v close to Portstewart there (must play, sensational front 9) and also Castlerock, another strong links. Just along the coast from Castlerock, you can catch the Lough Foyle ferry (crossing of 10/15 mins)which leaves you pretty handy to Ballyliffin for their excellent 36. Rosapenna and Portsalon are also reachable, but a bit more of a drive. If time permits, a tour of the Bushmills Distillery is worth a look (and if you want to push the boat out, the close-by Bushmills Inn is a great, cosy place to stay).

however you do it, you'll get a big welcome - enjoy.

Wot he said.

Slieve Donard for RCD and Bushmills Inn for RP, Portstewart and Castlerock. If you have time for Ballyliffin too, that is well worth it.

The NI people are friendly and down to earth. You will like them.

[Tim Johnson]

David, good luck in choosing which courses to play, there really isn't a bad course suggested here.
Ballyliffin is a great place to spend a couple of days. The local hotels are offering incredible packages for golf and the courses are top notch. With the ferry, not that far from including Portstewart and Portrush in your plans.

[Charlie Gallagher]

David,
   Regarding Doonbeg, I will 2nd the opinion of those who think Lahinch, Ballybunion, and Tralee are more important visits. Lahinch is only about 35 minutes from Shannon Airport. It is a must play, when I'm in the area I always set up for two rounds there. It would be a great introduction to links golf.
    Ballybunion is another course that merits playing twice, certainly one of the best links on the planet. 45 minutes south is Tralee, which features one of the worlds more amazing back nines, and some of the most gorgeous dunes in all of Ireland. All three of these courses are substantially superior to Doonbeg, in my opinion. Doonbeg has great lodging and the course has a number of very good holes, but there are several that are architecturally poorly laid out and the course falls behind Lahinch, Ballybunion, and Tralee for that reason.
   I don't know your itinerary, but if you could get off the plane and play Lahinch, stay locally,play it again, then head south towards Ballybunion you might be able to get an afternoon tee time that would avoid members time. The trip between the two courses is  2:00+ hours depending on how long you have to wait for the ferry at Tarbert.

[Thomas Dai]

Jeff,

As a local, how do you rate Castlerock (Mussenden) vrs Portstewart (Strand)?

I know that Portstewart (Stand) has the extremely spectacular front-9 but I thought it's back-9 (evil tabletop 17th green aside) was rather bland.

atb

[Jeff Johnston]

Thomas, in the interests of full disclosure, I should mention that I havent lived full ltime in NI for over 20 years, but remain a frequent visitor....re your question, I havent seen Castlerock for about 6 or 7 years (too long) - from memory, it probably does have more overall consistency than Portstewart but lacks the latter's high spots (which are pretty darned high). You mention that 17th green at P'stewart - personally I detest it beyond reason and am of the view that it is the single worst feature of the course by a distance!

[Thomas Dai]

Thomas, in the interests of full disclosure, I should mention that I havent lived full ltime in NI for over 20 years, but remain a frequent visitor....re your question, I havent seen Castlerock for about 6 or 7 years (too long) - from memory, it probably does have more overall consistency than Portstewart but lacks the latter's high spots (which are pretty darned high). You mention that 17th green at P'stewart - personally I detest it beyond reason and am of the view that it is the single worst feature of the course by a distance!

Jeff,

Thanks for this.

I can understand your deep dislike of the 17th. I'm not really sure I actually 'like' it either! Respect/fear perhaps. A Marmite hole/green I guess.

Castlerock (Mussenden), although it has a few mentions herein, seems to a bit of an under the radar course. I have seen it rated/ranked higher than Portstewart (Strand) in publications and the few locals I've spoken with have all said they think it's better overall. Not as photogenic maybe?

atb

[Charlie Gallagher]

Castlerock is an underrated links, no question about it. The first few holes are a bit bland, but after that it presents consistently excellent links golf and, when I return to the north it is a must play. 
Portstewart has a bit of a split personality to it. I have played it once and was lucky enough to play the back nine first, then finish on the front, which is substantially better in its character than the back. Lot's of people talk about the great 2nd hole, but  I think some of the other holes back in the dunes have superb merit; the 6th hole is one of the best short par 3's in Ireland, a volcano set green where depth perception is a real challenge, very cool and high pucker factor in wind. The 5th is a wonderfull dune enclosed hole, part of an old army rifle range used during WWII.

[Jeff Johnston]

Charlie, I didnt know that re the rife range history of the 5th at Portstewart - but standing on the tee that is exactly how it presents! a superbly exacting par 4 from start to finish - particularly if the pin is on the evil little shelf of the third (backmost) tier (as it always seems to be when I am there).

BTW I also endorse your advocacy of Baltray below. Holes 11-14 are one of my favourite stretches in golf, and the course as a whole is another generally underrated track IMO.

[Bill_McBride]

Castlerock is an underrated links, no question about it. The first few holes are a bit bland, but after that it presents consistently excellent links golf and, when I return to the north it is a must play.[quote/]

I loved the way a couple of the greens were benched into dunes.  Castlerock is really a fun course, right after Portrush Valley in my opinion. 

[Charlie Gallagher]

Jeff,
   Glad I'm not alone.  I have a buddy whose opinion on architecture I respect, who agrees with me that Baltray is special, he rates it in his top 5 in Ireland. Most others I know just shrug, and don't seem to get it.
Bill,
  You are right about the greens set on shelves at Castlerock. There are also several that sit at the end of partial dune corridors. One more point, the highest compliment I can give to a course is that it is fun, in my mind you can't get to that word unless what lies on the ground captivates the imagination and stirs the soul. Castlerock provides that in spades.

[Thomas Dai]

Reference Castlerock.

The other course at Castlerock, a 9-hole links called The Bann is IMO a real treat. Tight with cambered fairways and small slopey greens of great variety.

If you do go to Castlerock and don't take the time to play The Bann as well as the main 18-hole Mussenden course you've wasting a great opportunity - see - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,56960.0.html - for more.

And mentioning 9-hole second courses at premier clubs in Ireland and Scotland that are in themselves real treats, these might be of interest and should be played if you're playing the main courses - Yellow-9 at Portmarnock, New (or is it now 'Old'? 9) at Carne, St Olaf course at Cruden Bay. These are the ones that immediately come to mind, I'm sure there are a few others. I'm pretty I started a thread on the subject of second courses at premier venues but I can't fine it just at the moment.

atb