Kraft Nabisco vs. The Masters

[Joel_Stewart]

Both are the first majors of the year and both are played on the same course every year.

Here lies the problems.  Mission Hills Country Club is not worthy of a major. 

Does the LPGA suffer because of this golf course?  The fans and players enjoy it and the volunteers are abundant.  There is no question its a well run tournament, which is run by IMG.

It seems to me they should use a better golf course?

[Greg Chambers]

The LPGA suffers because a) Kraft Nabisco really shouldn't be the name of a major and b) the women are insufferably boring to watch.

[Matthew Essig]

Agree that Kraft Nabisco is not a name of a major.

I don't mind watching the women every once in awhile. IMHO, they have to strategize around the course a little more than the men do; however, I would be fairly bored if I had to watch them a lot.

Is Mission Hills worthy of a major?
Not quite. It is okay because there is enough history to bring it back, but the course isn't great. There are some holes I remember because of the strategy in play, but there are a few holes like 3, 12, 13, 15, and maybe a couple more that I never remember (and to be honest, don't care to remember).

[Mac Plumart]

I believe they need better courses for many of their tournaments.  But, I still enjoy watching this tournament and other LPGA events.

[JESII]

I'd bet the numbers for the Kraft Nabisco are closer to the Masters than a regular weekly event is to that week's Men's event...and ideas if I'm right?

I'm playing with Mike Young's money so bet away...

[Mark Chaplin]

The event may need a better course but will the members of Oakmont, TCC or Merion be happy to give up their course for another week?

[Jud_T]

Let's put it this way.  They just had a tournament at Aviara.  By comparison, Mission Hills looks like TOC, CPC, Crystal Downs and the Lido rolled into one.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The event may need a better course but will the members of Oakmont, TCC or Merion be happy to give up their course for another week?
Mark,

The courses you cited are unplayable presently.

Nobody comes East to play in the Spring.

You have to go far West or South at this time of year.

[jeffwarne]

The event may need a better course but will the members of Oakmont, TCC or Merion be happy to give up their course for another week?
Mark,

The courses you cited are unplayable presently.

Nobody comes East to play in the Spring.

You have to go far West or South at this time of year.

Don't know if I I'd say there were unplayable.
Played Wykagyl yesterday and it was MINT.
What a fantastic course as well.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The event may need a better course but will the members of Oakmont, TCC or Merion be happy to give up their course for another week?
Mark,

The courses you cited are unplayable presently.

Nobody comes East to play in the Spring.

You have to go far West or South at this time of year.

Don't know if I I'd say there were unplayable.
Played Wykagyl yesterday and it was MINT.
What a fantastic course as well.


Jeff,

Some course are keeping greens closed because of the winter damage.

Are you saying that Wykagyl was bone dry with plenty of roll and that players and galleries wouldn't damage the course further ?

Maybe the pay higher taxes and get better conditions in that neck of the woods

[jeffwarne]

The event may need a better course but will the members of Oakmont, TCC or Merion be happy to give up their course for another week?
Mark,

The courses you cited are unplayable presently.

Nobody comes East to play in the Spring.

You have to go far West or South at this time of year.

Don't know if I I'd say there were unplayable.
Played Wykagyl yesterday and it was MINT.
What a fantastic course as well.


Jeff,

Some course are keeping greens closed because of the winter damage.

Are you saying that Wykagyl was bone dry with plenty of roll and that players and galleries wouldn't damage the course further ?

Maybe the pay higher taxes and get better conditions in that neck of the woods

Fairways were firm and fast.
Greens firm and fast (too fast for me evidently)
and the first beautiful day this spring
I played there 20 years ago and hadn't remembered how good it was.

[Chris DeToro]

The Women's Open was at Sebonack last year and I doubt that ratings were all that much better.  I think the course may add a few viewers especially from guys like us that are interested in that sort of thing, but I don't think they're seeing much of a bump. 

I could be wrong, but it seems like the tournament is run well, players enjoy it, the community gets behind it and it's been one of the few that hasn't undergone massive changes (unlike the LPGA Championship), etc. so seems pretty stable.  Why mess with this one? 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

They must have had a big increase in their taxes if their greens were firm and fast.
There were still mounds of snow at the top of my driveway this week.

[Joel_Stewart]

I think they should keep the Palm Springs area location but change the course.  Perhaps move it to Stone Eagle?

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

They must have had a big increase in their taxes if their greens were firm and fast.
There were still mounds of snow at the top of my driveway this week.

perhaps they simply manage what they're given better
or maybe they did away with their Board

[Mike_Clayton]

I'm at Kraft caddying for a 17 year-old amateur, Su-Hyun Oh from my club in Melbourne.

It is surprising they are playing a course of this quality - decent but no more - in a major when you consider where the men play.
It is the ultimate course set-up based on fairness, predictability,equity of punishment and probably that's why the players seem to like it.
What is amazing the Super could go to Royal Melbourne or Kingston Heath and love how they are mowed and how they look but come back and not change a single mowing line - which to me are unimaginative in the extreme. If it was just cut properly it would be a much better course.

Given how many tournaments the LPGA play in Asia, the interest in Asia in women's, the quality of the Asian players and the reality Asia is going to be an even bigger part of women's golf they should take a major to Asia.
Two in America -LPGA and US Open - two in Europe and one in Asia would be a much better idea.

[Sean Leary]

I think they should keep the Palm Springs area location but change the course.  Perhaps move it to Stone Eagle?

Stone Eagle?  Then no one would watch it on TV(except people here) or in person….Logistics, Joel.

I would bet that that tournament gets its biggest crowds of the year in person and one of the biggest in Tv viewership. The LPGA has way bigger issues than the course for the Dinah Shore.

[Kevin_D]

Jeff: I just missed you!  Played 9 last night after that Met event (or whatever it was)

Pat: the greens at Wykagyl are always pretty fast.  For whatever reason, they are essentially June-fast now, although not quite as firm as summertime.  The greens just opened last weekend, and the fairways are still a little bit soggy (though not too bad), but overall the course is in pretty great condition considering the winter we've had.  We punch next week, and I expect the course to be in terrific shape by mid to late April.

Kevin

EDIT: not that I'm saying we would host an event in April!

[Jim Nugent]

I would bet that that tournament gets its biggest crowds of the year in person and one of the biggest in Tv viewership. The LPGA has way bigger issues than the course for the Dinah Shore.

Related to this is a totally non-GCA (or even golf) aspect of the Dinah Shore.  Every year at that tournament, one of the biggest lesbian parties/gatherings in the country takes place.  Draws tens of thousands of gay women, who stay at the resorts, party at night, spend tons of money there.   

I went there about 20 years ago, for the last day of the tournament.  The course seemed pretty average to me, with no real personality.  The celebrations afterwards were wild.  Wouldn't surprise me if this is another reason the tournament stays where it is.   

[PCCraig]

I would rather watch paint dry than watch the LPGA on television.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kevin,

With the winter we've had the Wykagyl members must be ecstatic with the conditions


Jeff: I just missed you!  Played 9 last night after that Met event (or whatever it was)

Pat: the greens at Wykagyl are always pretty fast.  For whatever reason, they are essentially June-fast now, although not quite as firm as summertime.  The greens just opened last weekend, and the fairways are still a little bit soggy (though not too bad), but overall the course is in pretty great condition considering the winter we've had.  We punch next week, and I expect the course to be in terrific shape by mid to late April.

Kevin

EDIT: not that I'm saying we would host an event in April!

[Kyle Henderson]

The LPGA suffers because a) Kraft Nabisco really shouldn't be the name of a major and b) the women are insufferably boring to watch.

With regard to b): the men are often insufferably boring as well. Sunday at the Masters is often compelling, but try sitting through 3 hours of a web.com, European Tour or most PGA Tour events. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but the prospect of watching (choose your culprit here) wait for his playing partner to hit before even beginning to discuss his own shot (yardage, lie, wind, elevation change, etc.) and then take a half dozen practice swings before setting up to the ball (assuming he doesn't back off and repeat the practice swing if the slightest noise or shift in breeze tickles his ear) to hit each and every shot of his 6-hour trip around the TPC Southwind doesn't light my fire.

[Ben Hollerbach]

On the whole, more of the golfing public should watch the women as their play more closely resembles our play. But we watch the men as their play is so far beyond our abilities we watch to be amazed.

The history of the Dinah Shore is something that should be cherished and probably keeps the tournament at its level. But if the LPGA wanted a Masters equivalent they need a club that is willing to work for it, I don't believe Mission Hills is that place. The Masters didn't start out at its current level, it started with a good foundation and was built better year by year. So much that makes the Masters great has been built on 80 years of trying and learning. So much that makes the tournament great are the great moments from yesteryear.

Personally I'd love to see the tournament moved to Pasatiempo. in a manor of mirroring Augusta National, they could use the Mackenzie connection as well as their own patron saint in Marion Hollins to raise the tournaments profile. Use the west coast positions to broadcast the event in prime time and position it a week or two prior to the masters as a way to claim as much of the spotlight as possible. If they could get Pasatiempo to support the event it could become on par with the Masters for women's golf.

[Brent Hutto]

Very, very few professionals of either gender play a game resembling my own. I would never have taken up the game or would have quit it after a year if my own playing were as miserable and tedious experience as the typical Touring pro seems to want to make it. Just shoot me. It's supposed to be PLAY not a root canal.

[Kevin_D]

Personally I'd love to see the tournament moved to Pasatiempo. in a manor of mirroring Augusta National, they could use the Mackenzie connection as well as their own patron saint in Marion Hollins to raise the tournaments profile. Use the west coast positions to broadcast the event in prime time and position it a week or two prior to the masters as a way to claim as much of the spotlight as possible. If they could get Pasatiempo to support the event it could become on par with the Masters for women's golf.

I have no idea if this is practically possible, but I love the idea