Cypress Point vs Royal Melbourne West - hole-by-hole Match Play

[Ben Jarvis]

Carrying on from Mark Saltzman's recent Match Play threads in another forum, I thought it would be interesting to compare two of Dr Alister MacKenzie's masterpieces (and perhaps most in tact) - Cypress Point and Royal Melbourne West.

I have been very fortunate to play the West Course at Royal Melbourne many times, and feel that I am now starting to develop an intimate knowledge of the course. Having played Cypress Point just the once, there is obviously a lot for me to still learn and appreciate.

Both courses are beautifully natural. Cypress Point flows through it's three different environments so wonderfully - duneland, forest and ocean. The West Course at Royal Melbourne is routed over near perfect terrain for golf. Everything feels like it just sits into the land so naturally.

Cypress Point Club


"For years I have been contending that in our generation no other golf course could possibly compete with the strategic problems, the thrills, the excitement, variety and lasting and increasing interest of the Old Course, but the completion of Cypress Point has made me change my mind". Dr Alister MacKenzie

"A near-perfect collaboration between the greatest golf architect of all time and the finest piece of golfing ground". Darius Oliver


Royal Melbourne West


"It burns me up that with the billions of dollars spent on course construction in the past fifty years, all the architects together haven’t been able to build another Royal Melbourne." Gene Sarazen

"Much has been written on the qualities of the West Course, but put simply it is the combination of great land, great design and great construction that makes it so special". Darius Oliver

"Royal Melbourne, I think, is the course Augusta wants to be: wide enough for anybody, but brilliantly routed to make use of the topography and bunkered to reward bold play and bold decisions". Tom Doak


CYPRESS POINT vs ROYAL MELBOURNE WEST

Hole 1








Please provide commentary...

[Tim_Weiman]

Ben,

The opening hole at Royal Melbourne struck me as an almost perfect gentle start, but the first at Cypress Point generated a lot more excitement. So much great golf lies ahead on both courses. I would have favor RM, not because I think it is better than #1 at CP, but because I like the gentle start.

[John Cowden]

"This game's too rich for me". 

I've played CPC once, at age 14, with my dad.  If I can play RMW once before I'm 64, in just a few years, that would be wonderful. 

I'll enjoy this thread. 

[Ben Jarvis]

As an opening hole, RMW is ideal in the sense that it has a wide fairway and very little trouble around the green. There is a significant slope from left to right, and attention must be paid to avoid three-putting (take note Jonathan Becker) if you're above the hole. It get's your round away nicely, but you could forgive the first-timer for thinking "why all the fuss about RM".

I love the uniqueness of the 1st tee at CPC. Standing up by the Pro Shop and hitting over the hedge is very cool.

It's a tough call for me, but..

CPC 1 up

[Mark Chaplin]

Ben last time I played RMW the greens had that light blue hue they get when rock hard, it was extremely difficult not to 3 putt! I could not see 1CPC due to mist even after a good tee shot so I'll give this to 1RMW.

[Greg Taylor]

I haven't played RM but the first at CPC is prolly the only weak link.

Blind drive over a hedge... AS is a fairer result - surely!

[Joel_Stewart]

The 1st at CPC is not an easy hole.  Getting the 2nd shot close is very difficult and that green is so slanted that any ball above the hole is almost an automatic 3 putt.

[Leo Barber]

Exciting  thread.  Agreed that RMW1 at first doesn't really excite the senses but the more you play it and the more you understand its place in the jigsaw its pure genius.  Its understated.  A tee distant from the buzz, a wide fairway and a large subtle green with an unmenancing bunker hardly belies what the reflection will in time reveal.

The first tee at Cypress Point has a real buzz, an excitement only compared with say the first tee at the Old.  Its old school.  Nothing pretentious.  You are warmly welcomed to take your place in the queue.  You practice putt as the caddies spit out their "gollies" and the anticipation grows.  As your turn comes up, you hit over a hedge with your only wish that you atleast clear it. Exhaling after getting one away you finally relax into the round and this magnificent routing opens its pages as you face your first approach.

Its a tough call and an easy half in some respects but I'm gonna call RMW1 the victor - I just feel its principles are truer in the grander scheme and fit the overall puzzle cleaner.  

[Ben Jarvis]

Hole 2





Both par-5's and both very good. I'm giving it to RMW, as I think drive is now more thoughtful with the new back tee (bringing into play the bunker) and the long second is really good to an open green that asks for a low running draw.

Match: all square after 2

[Joel_Stewart]

The tee shot on the 2nd is quite "thoughtful" as well.  OB to the right and you have to carry the ledge on the left.  Its a very demanding tee shot.

After that I don't see much at CPC, its reachable if you hit a good drive and the layup isn't that hard.  The green to me isn't that difficult. 

[Leo Barber]

Both good 5s with some similar virtues off the tee.  Enjoyable three shotters that offer opportunity that assist you into the round.  I prefer RMW 2s greens complex so agree with your call Ben. 

[Ben Jarvis]

The tee shot on the 2nd is quite "thoughtful" as well.  OB to the right and you have to carry the ledge on the left.  Its a very demanding tee shot.

After that I don't see much at CPC, its reachable if you hit a good drive and the layup isn't that hard.  The green to me isn't that difficult. 

Joel, I agree with you re: the drive at CPC. The drive at RMW used to be a simple blast over the bunker. Now, with a lengthened tee, you (or at least I) have to hit a solid drive to carry the bunker when the tee shot is playing into a slight breeze.

[Ben Jarvis]

Hole 3





One of the great approach shots in golf is found at RMW #3. The green is beautifully constructed, sloping from front to back. The short approach shot is further complicated by a tremendous swale in front of the green, forcing a perfectly judged shot.

I could hit shots for hours into this green, and I would still be questioning what the best shot is to play.

Match: RMW 1 up

[Ben Jarvis]

Hole 4





I like both holes here but RMW wins out for me.

The long second from a downhill lie at RMW is one of my favourites anywhere. It's a very rewarding shot when you see your ball carry the large bunkers down the right and then bound onto the green.

Improvements have been made to the tee shot, where Tom Doak has restored the landing zone to the LHS of the drive bunkers on the hill. With very little room up the right for the shoter hitter, this recently added landing zone allows the shorter hitter to play left and hopefully past the bunkers without having to lay-up short.

Personally, I'd like to see some of the dense low-lying vegetation down the RHS of the fairway removed and therefore opening up the beautiful view down to the green.

Match: RMW 2 up

[Ben Jarvis]

Hole 5





A par-5 vs a par-3 and both exceptional in their own right.

The 5th hole on the West Course is a sublime par-3 where your tee shot is hit over a valley into a back-to-front sloping green. I recall my jaw dropping when stepping onto this tee for the first time. The scale of the hole is so much larger than photos suggest. I still smile everytime I play this hole.

I recall the highlight of the 5th at CPC as being the heroic uphill second shot over the striking MacKenzie bunkering. It was also fascinating to look back from the green and not see one of those bunkers one must avoid.

As good as this hole at CPC is, RMW #5 cannot be beaten.

Match: RMW 3 up

[Mark Chaplin]

This is like The Masters, the front 9 is the warm up and the back 9 is where it matters, RMW needs to be at least 3 up after 10.

CPC wins hands down in the "surrounding properties" category!

[Mark Saltzman]

This is like The Masters, the front 9 is the warm up and the back 9 is where it matters, RMW needs to be at least 3 up after 10.

CPC wins hands down in the "surrounding properties" category!

Except we know RMW is going to win 18. Can it halve/win 17?

[Tom_Doak]

Except we know RMW is going to win 18. Can it halve/win 17?

By my quick take, it will have to win 17 in order to take the match to 18.   And it won't win 17, though it might get a conceded half.

[Ben Jarvis]

Hole 6





One of the worlds great par-4s lies here at RM. No further comments needed.

Match: RMW 4 up

[Ben Jarvis]

Hole 7





Both par-3s here and for me, RMW continues its early dominance with a win.

The 7th at RMW is perhaps my favourite of all par-3s on property. There aren't many great uphill one-shotters, but this is one of them.

Match: RMW 5 up

[Mark Chaplin]

Homer decision there Ben, have to disagree with you, at best RMW gets a half.

[Jim Sherma]

I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks.

[Ben Jarvis]

Homer decision there Ben, have to disagree with you, at best RMW gets a half.

I'd be interested to hear why you think #7 at CPC is the better hole?

Personally, I feel that the 7th at RMW provides multiple shot options from the tee, with some wonderful contouring at the green.

Is the 7th at CPC a little more one-dimensional?

[Ben Jarvis]

Hole 8





Cypress needs to make up a lot of ground now and makes some inroads here at the 8th.

Like The early holes at CPC, the 8th at RMW does not lose out due to being a poor hole.

This ultimately will prove to be a common theme, as great golf holes are up against one another.

Match: RMW 4 up

[Blake Conant]

are the mowing lines at Cypress as bad as they look on the aerials?