I'm not sure if this adds or detracts to the thread, but here are my thoughts on DR Red immediately after playing in last September:
It is a really unique piece of property and I can't think of another course that I've played that is anything quite like it.
My favorite holes were on the other side of the road -- I can tell why Tom fought hard to cross that road! My favorite stretch is 13-15, with #14 probably being my favorite hole on the property. I liked how 14 & 15 had bold classic design features on a bold modern course. 14 is just really cool in that there were two ways to achieve a non-blind shot into that green -- hit it long left or hit it straight. Fail and you have a blind shot or are hitting out of the native. #15 proved to be a crucial hole in one of our matches -- our group hit 8 balls off the tee; only my partner and I found our original drives. We squared the match there then halved the remaining 3 holes to advance. I can see how it's a pretty vexing hole but I had success just banging a shot way left each round (I played each side 3 times) and hitting a shot up the length of the green.
I found the back 10 holes to be such a thrill to play that it overshadowed the front 8 a bit in my mind. I found myself wishing there was a whole 18 over on that side. I don't think that is a criticism of the opening 8 as much as it speaks volumes to that closing stretch. I'm a sucker for the amorphous blended turf and the front nine is really neat with all of the different options around the greens and possible teeing areas (I'm not sure if they are going to go the BN-route with no tee markers, but I think they definitely should). #4 is probably my favorite hole on that side with two distinct paths to the hole - conservative or aggressive, but requiring the longer hitter to hit a straight ball through the neck if he really wants to get it on or close to the green.
Some other random observations:
- I saw some really good shots hit on #5 (none by me), most of which got hung up on the bank above the green. I'm not sure if that was the intent or if it's just a maintenance issue, but it did seem like the play there is to hit a left-to-right shot hugging the left side of the green, then roll it off that large slope.
- Speaking of left-to-right, there seemed to be more of that here, in contrast to Ballyneal which seems to have more right-to-left shots. It is probably better suited for my game, assuming I had any control of my golf ball.
- It's probably a function of the early maintenance and/or the weather, but the native rough was brutally difficult. I think I found 3 golf balls for every one that I lost, a surprising number given how new the course is. The last day was pretty tough scoring conditions in general -- hopefully it didn't turned anybody off as too tough. The 18th in particularly was very gnarly -- any thoughts on paring that rough back around and above the bunkers left and short of the green?
- I really liked the 12th tee from the left. It appeared that the fairway ridge in the foreground mimicked the large hills in the background. There were some awesome skyline views on the back ten with the impressive mountain of sand serving as the background. Getting down to 16 green is really neat because you fully realize how big those dunes are and how small we are by comparison.
- It's probably no surprise that I tended to prefer the greens with bolder internal contours like #14 to some of the more subtle ones, but there seems to be a good mix of green sites. I saw more than a few putts played 1-2 feet one direction that broke the opposite direction. The subtle greens with more a constant tilt with mild humps and bumps were difficult to read. #18 seemed to have a lot of dips and a small hollows -- not sure if that was a early grow-in thing?
- We played the 496 tee on #13, where you had no choice but to hit atop the hill left of the corner. It is a really cool looking approach shot from up there. I would've like to have seen a more generous landing area up there to help the safe play.
- I found the walk to be very reasonable and manageable. The blended turf probably makes some of the green-to-tee walks seem longer than they actually are, but it's not bad at all if you know where to put your golf bag. Climbing #17 is the only arduous walk on the course.
This was before the DR Red vs Ballyneal boxing match. I did not participate because I don't tend to do hole by hole matches, nor would anyone take my opinion as anything more than biased drivel. But for what little it's worth, I rather group the holes into par 5's, par 3's and short and long par 4's. First of all, I don't think the par 5's are a strength for DR red and would go as far as to say that there isn't one there that I would trade for any of the par 5's at Ballyneal. Call it 10-9 or even 10-8. The short par 4's are a strength at Ballyneal - I think most courses would be 10-9 to it. par 3's are a push and long par 4's are really strong on both courses and could go either direction.
I did play the first 7-8 holes on the White course and the par 3's on the back, and carted the rest as that was all I had time for. It does seem extremely different than the Red course. I can't put my finger on it or explain it very well, other than the Doak course seems so seamlessly connected to the land, whereas the Nicklaus course seems drawn upon it. It's definitely beautiful landscape and I can see how others can enjoy it even if it doesn't quite fit my golf DNA. I'm not sure what holes are people's favorites on the White course but the 17th looked strong in my opinion.
It has been touched on in this thread, and I'm sorry if this is going to ruffle feathers, but in the spirit of frankness and honesty, if we are going to credit Doak for carefully getting it right out of the gates, what does that say about the original original Nicklaus course he gave to the first owners? There may be dozens of potential all world golf courses waiting to be built in the Sand hills regions, but the truth is only a half dozen or so will ever get built. I just wish there was more careful consideration with what went into the ground, as these special opportunities only come so often. While it's true that all of the improvements that have been made have been for the better, my basic premise is that the architect's job is to get as many of these things right as possible upfront. Future changes cost money and more importantly you are limited to what you can do based on some of the original decisions. Erin Hills went through the same thing. I just think an architect has to recognize these issues while it's in the dirt and adjust accordingly. It should be part of the job description.
Anyways, that has always been my mental block with original Dismal River course. I recognize that it's a mental block that likely prevents me fully appreciating what is there now, just like I have a mental block against Erin Hills being considered a great course (though I predict the 2017 US open will be a smash success). That is honestly where I stand on these issues and fully recognize that it's just one mere hobbyist's opinion fully loaded with baggage and barely worth the digibytes it's printed on.
With that, I think it's probably time for me to remove myself from GCA in the hope that it will speed up the path back to more frank and honest discussion. If I ever build a golf course, you are all welcome to come see it and try to rip it to shreds. Thank you to Ran for everything that I've learned over the past 8+ years. I'm sure I will run into many of you in the future, whether at a Hundred Hole Hike event, get together or even a future 5th Major.
Jim