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Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2014, 11:09:02 AM »
To my UK friends, yes it was really humming Fall of 2012 and that is the ideal way to play Lawsonia.  That's why Lawsonia always shines brightest in September and October when things cool off and they can let the greens dry out.  However that particular year there was way too much dead grass in the fairways and around the greens.  Its not fun trying to play recovery shots up to those plateau greens from baked dirt.  It didn't just go dormant and bouncy back with some rain.  The course was very drought stressed going into winter and that apparently caused more problems than usual coming into Spring. 

I will soon see how Deal, Rye and Royal St. George's play after a winter of flooding.  That should be interesting too. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2014, 11:10:48 AM »
Out of our foursome I was the only one that liked the course. The others said they liked the Woodland course more. I didn't see it that way.

Mike,

I hope that the bolded statement above is some sort of joke.
H.P.S.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2014, 11:27:11 AM »
More vallelujah than hallelujah.  Lawsonia never impressed me much perhaps because I grew up playing a L&M and had seen it all before.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2014, 12:06:16 PM »
my impression is that most folks who work at Lawsonia and live in the area really don't know what a gem they have there

however the few that do, really are blessed and I'm glad to see the trees removed, and normal improvements and maintenance get dialed in despite it's movement in the ratings

for me it's always interesting how courses in WI, MN, IL, NY, NJ, MA, NJ, PA, etc... close for winter and then get back to optimum for the golf season

additionally, most of not all the privates in those states have dues throughout the winter closure which helps with a maintenance budget

I don't think Lawsonia has a big budget for anything, and it's still a great place
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 01:13:41 PM by William_G »
It's all about the golf!

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2014, 03:06:31 PM »
Willgee,  the Oliphant Company - which is becoming a top tier golf services company has the management contract and know golf from the ground-up.  I think the reasonable green fee structure comes from the basic philosophy of the Baptist Assembly, that leases the operation out, which is not so much about maximizing profit as they are concerned with the feeling of fellowship and spirituality that can be found for many that wish to get away to this sort of retreat environment. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2014, 05:08:11 PM »
Can anyone identify the types of trees in the old Lawsonia photo?  None of them are evergreens like in the recent photos.  Could they have been Elms that caught Dutch Elm?  It seems like they overplanted to with Evergreens to compensate. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Andy Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2014, 05:57:37 PM »
Can anyone identify the types of trees in the old Lawsonia photo?  None of them are evergreens like in the recent photos.  Could they have been Elms that caught Dutch Elm?  It seems like they overplanted to with Evergreens to compensate. 

From an expert:

The photos a little grainy but I think it's a birch on the right and there may be some pine in the back left. If I had to guess I'd say the rest is likely a mix of oak and maybe some aspen.

Do we have a date for the photo?

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2014, 06:21:03 PM »
No but I suspect 1950's.  Any idea why the deciduous trees would have disappeared?  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2014, 07:43:34 PM »
A majority of the trees are in fact white pines . They will reach a height of 80-110 feet and a lifespan of over 100 yrs. I have about 450 white pines on my property some of which were planted in the late 1890's. Looking closely at the picture I see a few red and pin oaks but no aspens.

Jimmy Cavezza

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2014, 08:29:27 PM »
I finally got to experience Lawsonia Links yesterday and it did not disappoint.  The greens were in great shape and the overall condition of the course was excellent.  I loved the layout and look forward to playing again soon!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2014, 07:39:27 AM »
While the tree clearing on 13 and 14 has obvious benefits for the turf quality on those greens, perhaps the best thing about it is the change to depth perception it provides to the tee shot on 14.  While a fine hole with a green with some nice movement in it, club selection was never much of an issue on the hole with all the tree cover.  Now the combo of visual deception and more potential wind makes it a much more interesting tee shot IMO.

Jason,  

I disagree with you about the "heading into the woods feel".  If anything those holes stuck out as out of character with the rest of the course and now will be more of a piece as well as closer to the original intent.  The only potential downside I see is me blading a tee shot on 14 while you're standing on the 15th tee at next year's Mashie. :)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 08:16:45 AM by Jud_T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2014, 11:39:15 PM »
On Friday, I returned to Lawsonia for the first time in three years with an assist from GCAer and plus-handicap photographer Dan Moore.

I began playing the course back in 2009. At that time, the bulk of Ron Forse's renovation work had been done and the course had begun to reclaim some acclaim. At the time, it immediately became my favorite of any course I had played. A few courses have passed it since, but it has always held a special place in my golfing history and my fondness for it partly explains why I joined a Langford and Moreau club a few years later. Nevertheless, it always felt like the course had some unrealized potential. Primarily, I found it to be a bit limited by frequently too-slow playing surfaces and a back nine that never seemed to match the character of an extraordinary front side.

It doesn't appear that the last three years have seen dramatic changes at the course. Quite a few trees have been cut down and one or two original bunkers reclaimed, but most of the work could have been completed in a week or so by a good maintenance staff. And yet, the difference is dramatic.

Much of the discussion of the tree clearing has focused on the 14th hole. After seeing it in person, I must agree that the 14th is a better hole today without the trees surrounding its corridor than it was three years ago when tucked in an enclave of pines. And yet, the tree removal around the 14th hole has had a far more significant effect on holes like 10 and 13, which are dramatically better today. From the 10th green, one can see the 14th running just below and it gives a feeling of intimacy and drama to the routing that wasn't there previously, while also giving a really cool viewing angle of the engineering of the 14th green itself. 13, which might be my favorite par 5 in the world, has also been drastically improved with better sight lines from the tee and the reclamation of the original fronting bunker, which I took the opportunity to play from when my approach ballooned into the steady 25+ mph wind and left a plugged lie some 10 feet below the putting surface.

10 in 2010:


10 in 2014:


13 tee in 2010:


13 tee in 2014:


13 from ~200 yards out in 2010:


13 approach in 2014:


Lawsonia is no longer a well-kept secret. The staff, finally, seems to recognize how special the Links course is. Golfers are following suit. The guys I played with were from Madison and discussed other courses they play regularly almost apologetically, as though they know that places like Hawks Landing and University Ridge are slums by comparison. The conditioning also finally reflects the principles of the Links course. It played faster and firmer than any bentgrass course I've played before, and even the recently top-dressed greens were firm enough to send wedge shots bouncing through. Coupled with sustained winds approaching 30 mph, and Lawsonia last Friday was hitting a gear that it never came close to in my previous half-dozen rounds there.

One thing that stood out was the course's ability to engage all types of players. I had a Jekyll and Hyde round. I was 12-over on the front nine with a driver that I couldn't control in the wind, and yet, the course was playable even if I couldn't score. On the back side, I started to hit the ball very well with birdies at 10, 11, and 15. I thought I might break par for the back nine until we turned back into the wind on 17 and I closed with a pair of double-bogeys. Yet, even with my game peaking as I hit 5 of the first 7 greens on the back, the toll that the course takes for imprecision was on full display. A near-perfect approach at 13 came up just short and left an impossible up and down. Hitting 11 in two still left a severely difficult two-putt, as did hitting the back portion of the green on 14. Simply put, the course's intrinsic balance, ability to challenge strong players while accommodating weak ones, and its greatly improved conditioning and aesthetics have made it arguably the best public course in Wisconsin today. The fact that its ranking in Golfweek has fallen over the last three years is an embarrassment.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2014, 04:40:03 PM »
The guys I played with were from Madison and discussed other courses they play regularly almost apologetically, as though they know that places like Hawks Landing and University Ridge are slums by comparison.

Best-written line on GCA (Wisconsin annex) this year. ;D

Jason:

Good to see you enjoyed your round at Lawsonia; I think without question it's the best public option in the state, and for several of the reasons you point out: current maintenance practices "fitting" the course as Langford intended; the nature of tree removal opening up broader vistas throughout the course; and a course that remains a challenge for the low-handicapper as well as the bogey (or more!) golfer who enjoys a day on the links. Few courses have that range of appeal.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2014, 04:44:20 PM »
The next 3-4 weeks at Lawsonia are the best WI has to offer, IMHO.  Note to self... must get there within that time frame ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2014, 07:43:59 PM »
Jason,

Glad to see the course is in top nick and that you like the changes.  Only quibble is I find it hard to believe the 13th is really that good when the layup for hacks like me leaves an uphill shot short of the gully from a downhill lie, while the big sticks can have a nice pitch from the uphill after the gully.  I heartily agree that it's the best public option in the state currently, not to mention much better value than a couple of its higher rated brethren.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2014, 09:35:48 PM »
love #10, great hole that looks way shorter than it plays...great deception :)
It's all about the golf!

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2014, 02:24:03 AM »
love #10, great hole that looks way shorter than it plays...great deception :)

The 10th hole for your viewing pleasure.

"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2014, 10:23:35 AM »
Thanks for the update Jason. Dan's pictures are great...would love to see more if you're willing to post.

As I've said before, the golf course was in fantastic shape last October. I'd have to imagine that after this quality growing weather we've had in the upper Midwest that the course is in even better shape this year.
H.P.S.

Mike Treitler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2014, 12:35:32 PM »
Just played both courses at Lawsonia on Saturday.   Both courses are in great shape and the tree removal made the Links course even better. 

It makes no sense that they dropped in the ratings.   Maybe not enough raters or something?

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2014, 08:34:50 PM »
Playing 36 there on Saturday. I CAN'T wait!
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2014, 12:43:02 PM »
Played 36 at Lawsonia on Saturday.  I was blown away by the course’s presentation.  I have played Lawsonia on two previous occasions – the most recent of which was 2-3 years ago – and the course continues to get better every time I play it.  This past weekend the course played about as perfect as is possible. 

The greens had been punched, but they were probably 95% back to perfection and they rolled true and were FIRM & FAST!  The knock on Lawsonia had always been that the greens were too slow to take advantage of the amazing contours, but that is not the case any more.  There was enough speed in them to induce fear if you found yourself on the wrong side of the hole – which happens all the time.  We had several players in our group putt off greens (mostly on #16 from above the hole).  The firmness was also very impressive with only well struck balls having any check on them.  We played Erin Hills on Sunday and to a man everyone thought the condition and playing characteristics of the greens (and the rest of the course) at Lawsonia were head and shoulders above EH’s greens.  And that is not to say EH’s greens were bad – Lawsonia’s were just that good.

I also experienced the recent changes that continue to improve the course:

- Tree clearing at #2, around #10, #13 green and #14:  All I can say is WOW!  Those holes feel much more connected to the rest of the course and open up amazing vistas across the back nine.
- New (restored) bunkers:  I can’t name them all, but there were definitely more there than the last time I played the course.  The obvious restorations were the greenside bunker at #13 (!!) and on #7.

We had twelve guys ranging from +2 to 17 handicaps and all but one fell in love with the course.  Many preferred it to Erin Hills. 

This most recent trip served to confirm my thoughts that Lawsonia is one of my favorite golf courses on the planet.  Did I mention we paid $100 for all-day golf?
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2014, 01:06:44 PM »


This most recent trip served to confirm my thoughts that Lawsonia is one of my favorite golf courses on the planet.  Did I mention we paid $100 for all-day golf?


Lawsonia is not in Kansas anymore.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2014, 01:09:04 PM »
"The Lure of Lawsonia is Stronger in 2014 as Tree Removal Project Revitalizes The Links Course"

http://www.golfwisconsin.com/articles/article.cfm?ID=2192
H.P.S.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2014, 01:29:46 PM »
Finally, we have an overriding focus on customer service. Everything we do is about putting the customer first.

JK-  put that in your pipe and gnaw on it.... 8)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Did Lawsonia go too far?
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2014, 01:36:59 PM »
Finally, we have an overriding focus on customer service. Everything we do is about putting the customer first.

JK-  put that in your pipe and gnaw on it.... 8)

This is from the link.  $145 all day play rate on the weekends.  I aways thought Lawsonia was selling value.

5) Anything else you'd like to add about the property?

First off all thank you so much for this opportunity Brian. I can't think of a better place in the state to play 36 holes in one day and feel like you traveled miles and miles to do so. The contrast from Northern Wisconsin within The Woodlands Course's dramatic forest and wildlife, to the Links Course and the feel of playing in the British Open! We have a great all day rate all season long here for just $105 weekdays and $145 on the weekends as well as houses on property to bring the group and stay. Don't forget about our full service restaurant and bar Langford's Pub, serving food and your favorite beverages and food daily. For more information on Lawsonia, make sure to visit their website at www.lawsonia.com or call the pro shop at (920) 294-3320.