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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2014, 10:12:00 AM »
A vote is scheduled for Union League members on April 16 according to this article which provides a link to this thread here at GCA!


http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Union-League-to-vote-on-.html
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 02:28:51 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2014, 09:38:56 PM »
Yes,

I was meaning to post this but the board of directors of the Union League has voted unanimously to support the strategic partnership with Torresdale-Frankford Country Club and the vote will take place on 4/16.

The Union League will become the sole owner of a new LLC which will own all of the facilities of the country club.

The best news is that beyond the acquisition cost the Union League plans to plow another 8 M into improvements of the grounds as well as the clubhouse and facilities!

Hurrah!! T-F looks like it may well survive and then some!

« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 09:53:26 PM by Malcolm Mckinnon »

John Shimony

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2014, 02:24:21 PM »
I think this proposed purchase is good news.  The course needs a good amount of tree removal and more fairway width for sure.  As Ed said, the $8k fees are about what bond holding members are paying now.  The clubhouse was built in 1922, I believe, and I'm sure a lot funds need to be dedicated to the building.  The course only needs tree removal and bunker work in my opinion.  What that might cost compared to the clubhouse work I don't know.  As for a previous comment on the neighborhood being unsafe, I've lived less that a mile from the club my whole life and don't think twice about my safety walking the streets day or night.  It's a great place to live.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 02:26:02 PM by John Shimony »
John Shimony
Philadelphia, PA

Joe Bausch

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2014, 04:33:25 PM »
As for a previous comment on the neighborhood being unsafe, I've lived less that a mile from the club my whole life and don't think twice about my safety walking the streets day or night.

Now we know why some people think the neighborhood is dicey.   ;)
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark McKeever

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2014, 11:43:07 AM »
Shi$ runs with a rough crowd, but the important thing is that they all have his back.  That's why he feels safe.   :)

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

John Shimony

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2014, 02:57:22 PM »
I'd be more wary of some of the members who hang at Three Monkeys pub down the street than the slackers I see walking the streets.
John Shimony
Philadelphia, PA

Joe Bausch

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2014, 02:59:28 AM »
Most recent news on this story, with specifics on the dollars for the purchase, renovation, and cost per year for members:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Union-League-urges-members-to-back-country-club-deal.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2014, 07:07:35 PM »
  I understand 82% of the members of the Union League voted yes. This authorizes the partnership of the 2 clubs  if the deal closes.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2014, 01:43:23 PM »
In an effort to prevent any chilling of the discussion in this thread, I have been merely monitoring it. Now, I received the following email this afternoon:

"To the Members of Torresdale–Frankford Country Club:

           At the Special Meeting of the Certificate Owning Members of Torresdale–Frankford Country Club called for April 22, 2014, the Motion to Authorize the Plan of Transfer to enter into a Special Alliance with the Union League of Philadelphia was approved.

           There were 149 Certificate Owners who were eligible to vote on the motion and 134 of those eligible cast ballots. The final vote was announced by our Judge of Elections, [name redacted], to be 133 in favor of the motion and one opposed.

           I thank the membership for their unprecedented turnout to vote for this Plan and for their support of this Motion and Plan. I also thank the standing committee which worked so hard to negotiate the Plan which was approved.

           Under the terms of the Plan, the Certificate Owning Members will be called upon to vote on the Enhanced Master Plan and to approve changes to our By-Laws in accordance with the approved Plan. The membership will be kept advised of further meetings which may be necessary and any additional developments.

[name redacted]
President"

mike_malone

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2014, 02:44:25 PM »
I am truly excited that T/F has aligned with one of the bastions of Philly to move forward.

If the powers that be read this thread I want to get across a couple of points

1.  Make restoring the course to its classic heritage paramount. This means radical tree removal and maintaining bunker placement.

2. Realize that widening the area of play brings the land into play.

3. Focus on the golfing experience as the most important thing. This means making the clubhouse understated classic just like the Union League itself.

Finally I offer just two personal preferences
1 put 8 green back where it belongs. Having water behind the green is creative ; having a blind approach makes it unique in the area. It is the way it was designed.
2 shorten 17 and create a classic Ross volcano hole . Then move 18 tee to behind the green and drive along the property line to 18 landing zone .

Keep being classic and you can't go wrong; get hip and you lose it.
AKA Mayday

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2014, 10:03:12 PM »
Check out these stats from TFCC today, where the GAP held a Philly Am qualifier: http://www.ghintpp.com/gap/TPPOnlineScoring/CourseStats.aspx?id=414

The course played at 6249 yards.

Sample size was 69 players.

Low round: 71 (+1).

Toughest hole was No. 3, a 394 yard two-shotter. 15/69 players made a par. Zero birdies. It averaged a whopping 5.324.

The lack of birdies is astounding. No. 1 is 337 yards; 2 birdies. It averaged 4.732.

No. 15 is 297 yards; 5 birdies. It averaged almost a half-stroke above par.

I feel like the USGA after the US Open at Merion.  ;D





Joe Bausch

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2014, 01:56:44 AM »
Check out these stats from TFCC today, where the GAP held a Philly Am qualifier: http://www.ghintpp.com/gap/TPPOnlineScoring/CourseStats.aspx?id=414

The course played at 6249 yards.

Sample size was 69 players.

Low round: 71 (+1).

Toughest hole was No. 3, a 394 yard two-shotter. 15/69 players made a par. Zero birdies. It averaged a whopping 5.324.

The lack of birdies is astounding. No. 1 is 337 yards; 2 birdies. It averaged 4.732.

No. 15 is 297 yards; 5 birdies. It averaged almost a half-stroke above par.

I feel like the USGA after the US Open at Merion.  ;D


What speed were the greens?  Where were the pins on these holes?
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Chris Roselle

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2014, 08:42:23 AM »
Check out these stats from TFCC today, where the GAP held a Philly Am qualifier: http://www.ghintpp.com/gap/TPPOnlineScoring/CourseStats.aspx?id=414

The course played at 6249 yards.

Sample size was 69 players.

Low round: 71 (+1).

Toughest hole was No. 3, a 394 yard two-shotter. 15/69 players made a par. Zero birdies. It averaged a whopping 5.324.

The lack of birdies is astounding. No. 1 is 337 yards; 2 birdies. It averaged 4.732.

No. 15 is 297 yards; 5 birdies. It averaged almost a half-stroke above par.

I feel like the USGA after the US Open at Merion.  ;D


What speed were the greens?  Where were the pins on these holes?

Guys, I was the one who set the golf course up for our qualifier yesterday and was the official in charge at the site.  First, the course was in incredible shape.  The greens had a nice pace to them and were on the firm side.  The rough was long in spots and that was because they weren't able to mow after the storm on Friday.  The 3rd hole has one of the most severe greens in GAP and the hole was located in the front right which is about the fairest spot on there.  The problem is the target is so small and the tee shot is so difficult.  The hole was located middle right on #1, again the easiest spot on that severe green.  What made yesterday difficult was the swirling winds.  When you have greens that small and firm plus narrow fairways as well your effective target area gets that much more precise.   And the yardage is deceiving because so many approach shots are back uphill at TFCC.  All in all I loved how it played yesterday as did most of the field.

Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2014, 10:19:02 PM »
Chris,

Thanks for the insight and high praise. Greenskeeper Brian Mazey does a damn good job with the tiny budget he has.

The greens on 1 and 3 will be softened when Stephen Kay finally executes our master plan this winter thanks to the infusion of Union League cash. The plan has been in place for a few years, but we never had the capital to do more than redo 5 and 14, and a few bunkers on other holes. A pair of contractors toured the course two fridays ago in preparation to submit their bids.

Even with swirling winds, a hole like 15 is 4 iron + gap wedge for most of these players. The fact that only 5 birdies were made really boggles my mind. It's ranked as the easiest hole on the entire course, handicap-wise.

mike_malone

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2014, 10:42:44 PM »
Now that UL is involved I think T/F should redo its master plan. I say this because the course should be more ambitious now and preserve more of the original design rather than settle for ideas such as pulling in the bunkers .
Stephen Kay has done some fine work of restournovating a course like Llanerch but T/F is a treasure that should be restored
Maybe Kay is the right guy to restore the place but the present plan is lacking in ambition ,IMO .
AKA Mayday

Jon Cavalier

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2014, 10:49:08 PM »
Big fan of this course. Just played it recently and it was in great shape. Glad to see that plans are moving forward for this historic course and club.
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Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2014, 10:51:22 PM »
Now that UL is involved I think T/F should redo its master plan. I say this because the course should be more ambitious now and preserve more of the original design rather than settle for ideas such as pulling in the bunkers .
Stephen Kay has done some fine work of restournovating a course like Llanerch but T/F is a treasure that should be restored
Maybe Kay is the right guy to restore the place but the present plan is lacking in ambition ,IMO .

Mayday,

You'll be unhappy to hear that 8 will now play 500 yards after a new blue tee is built and raised in the trees between the end of the 7th fairway and the current blue tee. Green is staying put—which I prefer, because its front left to back right angle gives it a level of difficulty similar to the 12th at ANGC. Long left and short right are the most common misses and are very hard places to get up-and-down.

mike_malone

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2014, 11:11:06 PM »
Yes it seems that people prefer golf holes to be like all other golf holes that they are used to playing rather than quirky as they were designed
Once you open that can of worms all bets are off for what can be done to a course and you can probably find a Ross course somewhere in the land that did similar things
I still say that 11 is the hole where the green is on the other side of the water and it is an angled approach
8 is different. Instead of the pedestrian parallel carry over the water to a green set away from the edge it should be as designed
I believe Ross probably was thinking about how the water was to be used on the course
Don't you think?
AKA Mayday

Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2014, 01:56:28 PM »
Yes it seems that people prefer golf holes to be like all other golf holes that they are used to playing rather than quirky as they were designed
Once you open that can of worms all bets are off for what can be done to a course and you can probably find a Ross course somewhere in the land that did similar things
I still say that 11 is the hole where the green is on the other side of the water and it is an angled approach
8 is different. Instead of the pedestrian parallel carry over the water to a green set away from the edge it should be as designed
I believe Ross probably was thinking about how the water was to be used on the course
Don't you think?

However Ross imagined the water to be used on the course has been obliterated by technology. Holes like 3, 9, 10, 18 all cross the Byberry creek, but the carry required is no longer a challenge. So I think 8 is a hole where the creek is still in play because many players miss their long-iron approach shot short and wind up swimming—just because the green is twenty yards beyond the creek doesn't mean it is not in play.

Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2014, 02:00:02 PM »
What if there were two greens—the original one in front of the creek, and the current one beyond it. THAT would be cool. Maybe balls that land on the front green when playing the back one could be moved to a drop area?

Joe Bausch

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2014, 08:10:08 PM »
I hope to get a better photo album of TFCC this season, but this one from a few years ago in the middle of a summer day will have to do:

http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/TFCC/index.html

I did revisit Torresdale-Frankford recently and my new photo album is much improved, IMHO:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Torresdale/

The last pic is the master plan of Kay and Smith.  I'm very much looking forward to their work.

I just hope they take down at least 1/2 as many trees as Wissahickon!  Grin.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 08:15:32 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2014, 12:17:51 AM »
Thanks, Joe!

Work on the Clubhouse has begun, and the driving range has been reduced to dirt.  Operations are shutting down October 1 for the "renostoration."

Jim_Coleman

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2014, 06:38:25 AM »
   Are the greens to be rebuilt to USGA spec?

Joe Bausch

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Re: Torresdale- Frankford (Ross) news...
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2014, 10:20:43 AM »
   Are the greens to be rebuilt to USGA spec?

No.

I believe just the 1st and 3rd greens will be 'softened'.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection