White v. Red

[John Kavanaugh]

A tie!!!!  C'mon Kavanaugh...grow a pair...make a pick.

 

I need to see the large bunker on the Red mature visually to break the tie.

[John Kavanaugh]

Wow!  Both great pictures.  Love the contrast of colors.  Do the holes on each course tend to play in isolation from one another or do you get longer views where other holes are visible from different vantage points?

Of the 36 holes maybe 6 at most are isolated. I was surprised to learn that you can even see one course from the other.

[John Kirk]

Interesting to see the contrast in bunker placement between the two par three holes.  Each hole has a large bunker and a small bunker at the front of the green, but they are positioned differently.  Part of that can be explained by the fact that #3 White must be two or three clubs shorter than the #3 Red.

Thanks for the thread.  Very interesting to see, and I suspect our local members are pretty stoked about now.

[Eric Smith]

Hole 4


Photo: Cliff Walston

4 is a medium length par 4 and is probably my favorite hole on the front 9 of the Red. The land it sits on is pretty darn cool and pictures just cannot tell the whole story here. It's not often that you find a hole that, depending where you are standing in the fairway, you can have such disparity in the shot at hand. A unique hole and one that will take many many more plays for me to better understand.



4 White is, arguably, THE iconic hole of Dismal River. Oddly enough, it is on the flattest patch of land anywhere to be found on the 3,000 acres. What Nicklaus put in the ground here is a gambler's delight. A par 5, reachable for many, but not without considerable risk, as an enormous bunker complex stretches all the way down the left hand side of the hole, cutting into the fairway just enough to bring another deep bunker and the windmill into play. That's right. A windmill. It's real and it's spectacular! Cool green too with backboards and sideboards allowing creative shotmakers another chance to dazzle and amaze. Never will forget the ground game guru, Adam Clayman, showing us the ropes on our trip out there a few years back.

Nicklaus's 4th is one of my favorite par 5's [and it isn't even my favorite on this course!].

White wins. All square.

[Peter Pallotta]

Ah, this is what it's all about, on a couple of fronts. Design-wise, I've been waiting for the freedom-naturalism of Red #4, a Ballyneal-St Andrews mix of almost daunting choice, with few visual directives. Personal-taste wise, the White is hurt here by my preternatural disinterest in most Par 5s, especially those built on relatively flat land (btw, I have viewed photos/descriptions from other sources); for my tastes, you just can't DO much with that, either architecturally or in the playing. (You'll note that my view of the Red's early Par 5 was similarly affected by little more than my personal preferences in this regard). Our Tommy designs one like he does best, while the veteran produces another in a terrific series of fine holes, but this time is hamstrung by 'the form'. This one goes to the Red.

So, after 4 holes, PJP scores the match - All square.

[Mac Plumart]

White 4 is the iconic hole on the course because of the wind mill...and it is a blast to play.  Freedom to blast away off the tee, decision to make on your second shot...and incredible approaching options...and the green is a real winner.  Wonderful hole.

HOWEVER,

Red 4 is one of the very best holes I've ever played.  For my game, I actually prefer one tee box up from the one that is pictured...it moves you up and over to the right a bit.  I can carry that centerline bunker...but I gotta hit a good tee ball.  I can bail out left, but then I gotta come up over that ridge partially blind into the green.  The green is incredible.  NOW, if the wind is blowing from behind...the hole becomes a bit different and I can try to bit a bit more ballsy.  Great hole...equifinality...changes with the wind.  Amazing hole.

Red wins.

Red up 2 on the MRP scorecard.

[John Cowden]

Damn, still nine weeks away from a go at 'em.  I love hitting the speed slot just left of Red's centerline bunker.  Wonderful photos! 

[Eric Smith]

Mac,

Thanks for the reminder to play that forward tee next time we're out.

JC,

CJ is out there playing today!

Are you making a pick here at #4?

[Bruce Wellmon]

Ali-Frazier. Duke- UNC basketball. Clemson - South Carolina football. Da Bears- Pack.
The next 5 holes are a slugfest.
White 4. Just iconic. Red 4. Genius.
White 4.

Red 4.

I love the run out on White 4. The approach, the cow rub, the punchbowl back part of the green and the damn windmill.
How many holes have you ever said, " I can get there if I hit it around the windmill."
But, Red is brilliant. Where's the wind? Can you carry the center hazard? If not, left off the tee is a narrow target and leaves a blind approach.
Lose the tee shot right, and you're totally blind down in the valley.
If the wind is behind you, can you get there?
Almost. Leaving a short, yet awkward downwind shot to a firm green.

Which usually goes long. This back shelf is much steeper than it looks.

Red 1 up.

[Josh Tarble]

This may be the most absurd statement ever made on this website but here it goes:

Based on pictures, #4 Red may be the best hole in the world.

It's beautiful in pictures and by all descriptions plays as cool as it looks.

[Mac Plumart]

Josh...

It all comes down to what you like...but there is no question that it is a world class golf hole.

[John Cowden]

Eric,

Envy is a poor trait to cop to, but I do envy CJ, and not just today. 

I've got Dismal on my weather app -- 62' and sunny tomorrow. 

Put me down as a vote for Red no. 4.  But I'll be on White no. 4 only a few hours before or after Red's. 

Cheers.

[Terry Lavin]

C'mon, Doak wins this in a romp.

[Jim Tang]

Questions for Red # 4....

1.  What are your options off the tee?  It looks like 3 to me....carry the centerline bunker, take a line left of it, take a line right of it.  Yes?  No?

2.  What are the advantages/disadvantages of taking each of the 3 routes mentioned above?

[Brandon Urban]

I really love both of these holes, but 4 Red is unlike any other hole. Red wins. Barely.

By the way, 4 Red is a blast to play from 3 tee (only discovered because we were chasing daylight and needed to get back to the first quickly before we could no longer see). Creates a great angle and allows the player to bite off as much as he can chew.

[Rob Curtiss]

You guys are making me so excited to play in the 5th major..come on June
Please keep posting the pictures

[Eric Smith]

You guys are making me so excited to play in the 5th major..come on June
Please keep posting the pictures

I'm pretty excited myself. 99 days!

[Eric Smith]

5. Return of the Jedi

White
145-185 yards



This hole IS controversial. A wild, take-no-prisoners one shotter, playing uphill, 145 yards (from the tees pictured) to a saddle green where accuracy is most definitely placed at a premium. It can be a difficult hole and I rarely make 3...but for the same reason as some of the other holes out there, it's the thrill of the challenge at hand that makes me smile every time I see my (or my opponent's ) ball rolling back down the hill.


Red
235-261 yards


Photo: Cliff Walston



Red 5 is situated at the very top of the golf course offering some awe-inspiring intergalactic views of the surrounding sand hills. You'll even catch a glimpse of the White Course. It's a unique hole, at least at this 36 hole outpost, as none of the other par 3's on property extend to 200 yards, let alone 260! Fortunately, long doesn't necessarily equate to difficult here at the 5th, as the landing area extends far and wide, making the green and surround, essentially, one giant putting surface. I guess if you made 4 (or worse) here often enough you'd disagree with me about what is or isn't difficult, but wait until you play the next hole to better understand why par IS just a number on the scorecard.

The Force is strong in this one and it wins the hole.

Red +1.

[William_G]

C'mon, Doak wins this in a romp.

yes Jack would concede this match

[Rob Curtiss]

Eric,

I am playing Merion in May, and right now I am more excited to see the Sand Hills of Nebraska in June

[Peter Pallotta]

Wow, this is just wonderful, and this is the toughest round for me yet. I'm trying not to let my decision be influenced by how impressed I am by the old veteran and his team for demonstrating so dramatically (and effectively) over the first five holes that an old dog CAN learn new tricks -- not that DRW #5 needs any help/extra kudos. What a striking hole in every sense. But on the other hand, our Tommy has truly hit his stride now, the magician with more tricks than Houdini surprising even his fans with, wait for it, a 260 yd Par 3 -- and one that dances so well and in such an unforced-seeming way of the knife edge between "par is just a number" and "you can make a par". Thanks, Eric, for sharing all this wonderful golf, and excuse the choice this outsider is about to make (which I didn't expect to make nor do I like to make): but this hole is halved. When both architects surprise us so delightfully -- JN channelling old British courses like Kington and Cavendish, and TD channelling his U.S. Open Doctor -- I can't pick one over the other.

So, after 5 holes, PJP scores the match: still All Square!

[Mac Plumart]

White 5 is one of the reasons I travel so far to play at Dismal.  So unique.  I just don't think you find a lot of holes like it.  Super fun...great match play hole.

Red 5 is a really cool hole...is it a driver?  3 wood?  Hell, 3 iron?  Depends on wind and if you can get that ball to bounce up and/or stop.

For me, White wins this one.  Coolness factor.

Red up 1, for now, on the MRP scorecard.

White is getting set for a great run of holes, IMO.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I feel White #5 is one of the best par 3's around. Period. Every time I play 4, you can glimpse 5 in the distance up on that dune, just waiting.
I love this hole. Maybe because I dropped birdie on Mac and the Governor of South Dakota on this hole in the 2012 5th Major. 
Maybe, because it is truly one of a kind.
It's a bitch and the bitch is back.
White wins.
All square.

[William_G]

the main thing with the Doak course here is the "Routing"

as immediately adjacent to the 4th green is the 8th tee

members know how the 5th, 6th, 7th are up to the left, but virgins are left with their pants down in the middle of the 8th fairway, LOL

that's when cart golf is a good thing 

[Mac Plumart]

Gray,

You played unaccompanied?  Like you said, since its a private club... members know how it is laid out.  I love that walk from 4 to 5.