White v. Red

[Sam Morrow]

at the first tee on the Nicklaus, you feel as though you could lose a golf ball, not so at the Doak

You felt like you could lose a ball?

And you can't lose a ball on the red? Why do you think Wellmon was standing in the gunge for his #1 approach photo?

More seriously, I think I get  the point about what it looks like.  Interestingly and I think tellingly about the nature of each course: White looks like you'll lose a ball but probably won't; red looks like you can't but you might.

Wellmon is a tremendous slouch.

My handicap is up, I'm a bigger slouch this year.

Sandbagging?

[William_G]

at the first tee on the Nicklaus, you feel as though you could lose a golf ball, not so at the Doak

You felt like you could lose a ball?

well not me personally, lol

[Eric Smith]

Hole 2 tomorrow
While we wait for JakaB,
I'll have the lobster

[Joe Hancock]

Hole 2 tomorrow
While we wait for JakaB,
I'll have the lobster

Haiku?

Gesundheit!

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Thank God we have another Kingsley thread.  It's been weeks and weeks!

Thank God we have another Dismal thread. It's been days!

[Peter Pallotta]

Looking forward to more, Eric. I'd like to see/learn about these courses, just to know. And, I'm going to score this from the outsider's perspective (with apologies in advance for not deferring to the opinions of those who have played both courses.)

So: after one hole, PJP scores DRW one up.

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't think of anything new to say so I'll just go with quotes from previous threads.

"I give the nod to Red because of the pot bunker in the lay up area.  It shouldn't go without mentioning that this is one obvious glaring example of the green on the Red being far more exciting and diverse."

[Sam Morrow]

at the first tee on the Nicklaus, you feel as though you could lose a golf ball, not so at the Doak

You felt like you could lose a ball?

well not me personally, lol

Good, you had me worried!

[Eric Smith]

Gesundheit!

Thank you

[John Cowden]

Anticipating Eric's move to our next match, No. 2, I note, quite simply, Red's No. 2 is a stunning, strategic two shotter, uphill with a blin tee shot.  Very cool.  I defer to those with the photos to prove it.  It's a helluva golf hole for all the reasons soon to be noted.  I'm still awaiting my first three. 

[John Kirk]

I'm jumping headlong into this thread.  Then again, no.

I will agree with John Kavanaugh that the 1st green on the Red course appears to have lots of opportunities for creative plays around the green.

[Eric Smith]

Hole 2

White 2
War of Attrition

The second on the White may be a lot of things, but one thing it is not is easy - just about the earliest punch in the mouth of any top course I know. One knock on it is when walking, the climb from the first green to the tee is really uphill. Same for the walk from the tee to the fairway.

2 is 445 yards from the square tees and plays longer than that, most definitely as a half par on the high side where a four just about always wins the hole in match play. I like the hole, as 99% of the time I am playing in a match anyway, but I do think it could be made better by extending the fairway out to the left, thereby increasing the bail out area off of the tee. I remember Sam Morrow once saying something along the lines of if there was an ocean down the right side it would be considered one of the world's best. I'm not sure that's the case, but a beach or island view might do nicely to calm the nerves before making a swing! The carry off the tee - though only 175 yards - does appear to be more daunting than one would like this early in the round..



..while the uphill and blind nature of the second shot, with certain death extending all the way down the right hand side of the fairway, does little to assuage such fears.



But...upon playing the hole a time or two, the benefits of taking a riskier line off the tee become more apparent.



The green is sunken below the fairway where the slope will funnel the ball onto the putting surface.



It is a cool hole, but also a tough hole and it is completely understandable why it is not a favorite for many.

Red 2 coming up..

[Peter Pallotta]

Ah, JN follows up a winning 1st hole with what seems to me a very strong 2nd: attractive yet fearsome in aspect, tough yet forgiving in play: the (scary-looking, uphillish) tee shot demands in fact only 175 yards of carry, and the (blindish) approach shot, although long,  ends with a sunken green that gathers long iron/hybrid shots and funnels them onto the green like a loving hen with its chicks. Interesting: in some ways exactly what a major champion who loved to hit high fades off the tee would design, for his lesser-talented golfing brethren that is!. (I'm not going to comment/score on the hole to hole transitions, but wow- that seems like a terrific 1-2 punch at the White!). Again, some quality and hip design by the veteran, and again I think our Tommy D will be hard pressed to outdo this and to square up the match!

Peter

[Mac Plumart]

Again, the stark contrast between the two courses is evident on the 2nd holes as well.

White (Nicklaus) is a dramatic, thrilling tee shot into an angle fairway that drops severely downhill around the green.  It requires multiple plays to understand it, but once you see what the hole is all about...it is a BLAST to play.  Truly unique.

Red (Doak) is another solid gold classic awarding winning type of golf hole.  Big dune blocking your view up the right off the tee and a massive bunker lurking up the left...but totally visible.  Fairway has incredible slope, undulation, and contour.  Really good hole.

Such a tough call regarding a winner in this match play contest because I wouldn't choose one over the other EVERY time.  I very much wanted to play BOTH every time I'm out at Dismal.  But for the same logic as I used on hole 1, I'll pick the Red...because although I LOVE to play #2 on the Nicklaus most of the time...I love playing #2 on the Doak EVERY TIME.

Red up 2 on my card.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Red 2 fairway, 5th Major, summer 2012, the Doak Tour.

Roughly the same spot, fall 2012, looking further left at the formidable bunker.

Red wins this round.
A semi blind tee shot on the Red, as opposed to 2 blind shots on the White.
 2 White requires lots of local knowledge, and can be quite confusing to a club visitor.
All square.

[Eric Smith]

Red 2

A long, demanding par 4 yet, nowhere near as penal as its White counterpart. What I love about the hole is it has precisely what I mentioned the White is lacking - room to bail. There's a ton of room to play away from the bunker, and the fairway widens even further down the right hand side as you get closer to the green. Sure it's going to play longer from way over there, but you're still in the game. It's also nice to be able to hug the ground on approaches when the wind is up as the entrance to the green is inviting from all angles.



It pains me to make a pick here, as I enjoy the otherworldliness of White's second, but Red 2 is the better hole. All square.

[John Kavanaugh]

"A tie."

[Peter Pallotta]

I can't keep repeating that I'm scoring this from a complete outsider's perspective, and from photos only, and I can't keep apologizing for not deferring (as I should wisely do) to the opinions of those who have played both courses - so this will be the last time I'll do it.

Now, Red #2 seems a fine fine golf hole, but besides all I've already noted (and liked) about White #2, I also note how well it seems to lay on the land, as if it were truly 'found there'. So: after two holes, PJP scores DRW two up.

[Eric Smith]

Peter,

Have you played either of the courses at Dismal River?

[Peter Pallotta]

Eric - no, I've played neither course. As I note, I am the complete outsider,going only from the good photos and excellent descriptions. Also as i note, I am not deferring to the (much more worthy) opinions of those like you and Mac who HAVE played both courses, multiple times. In short, I'm....ah, darn! b

Ok, now seriously now, THAT was the last time I'm gonna repeat it!!

Peter

[Eric Smith]

Eric - no, I've played neither course. As I note, I am the complete outsider,going only from the good photos and excellent descriptions. Also as i note, I am not deferring to the (much more worthy) opinions of those like you and Mac who HAVE played both courses, multiple times. In short, I'm....ah, darn! b

Ok, now seriously now, THAT was the last time I'm gonna repeat it!!

Peter

Damn you're good.

PP 2 up thru 2.

[Mac Plumart]

I gotta say, I've been starring at that picture of White 2's tee shot.  I really love hitting that shot.  Fun!!!

[Chris Shaida]

(for the record, I DID try to get Peter to join us on closing weekend last fall.  He declined, graciously of course but...)

[Eric Smith]

I gotta say, I've been starring at that picture of White 2's tee shot.  I really love hitting that shot.  Fun!!!

I must give credit to the fine hotographers who have assisted me with the thread. The tee shot at 2 White was taken by Tyler Kearns. As were several others. Also, photos by Brandon Urban, Mike Hogan and Bruce Wellmon have been featured thus far. Including the ass pic of the dude carrying a Mackenzie bag. More to come.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Everybody deserves an ass shot.