Dufner on Doral

[BCrosby]

What it means to hit a homerun in golf architecture:

"[Doral] used to be a golf course where you grab your driver on every hole, swing for the fences and play from there. You can't get away with that here at Doral anymore."  J. Dufner, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, March 7, 2014, p. C-8.

Bob
 

[Joel_Stewart]

Bob:  How does that statement constitute a "home-run"?

[Keith OHalloran]

With this wind, Doral is certainly a home run for golf ball, and ball retriever manufacturers.

[Garland Bayley]

What's a guy like me to do there with even more water in play?

Is Gil taking marching orders from The Donald?

[jeffwarne]

What's a guy like me to do there with even more water in play?

Is Gil taking marching orders from The Donald?

I'm pretty sure you weren't eligible.

I would hope that the owner would provide some marching orders for someone he HIRED.

Amazing how one can play a links course in a windy enviroment (Royal Portrush comes to mind) and lose balls in hay, or hack out sideways if lucky, and that's OK but water, even with a wide berth, is criticized.
it's windy today
it's called the Blue Monster.

and yes I wish there was a bit less water
Like a lot of the changes though-imagine it without the width

I will say it's interesting to see how quickly some of the announcers suggest they might need to remove some slope.
God forbid they mention presenting the greens at a slower pace

[Bill Brightly]

What's a guy like me to do there with even more water in play?

Watch the pros bleed, just like a US Open. And make a mental note not to attempt to play this course.

[Garland Bayley]

What's a guy like me to do there with even more water in play?

Watch the pros bleed, just like a US Open. And make a mental note not to attempt to play this course.

Note made. The Florida sand belts are the place to play, not the Florida swamp land.

[Kyle Casella]

It's nice to see the pros have to actually think about where to land the ball on the green other than right next to the pin. Although I will say 15 is pretty borderline today.

[Bill_McBride]

Bob:  How does that statement constitute a "home-run"?

I'll take a shot. 

Because the strategic demands of the updated design require some thought rather than full tilt boogie bomb & gouge. 

[Paul Gray]

"Seems a bit unfair."

I missed who actually said it as I wasn't really paying attention but that was possibly the most stupid comment of the day, given that it was in response to a golf ball having the audacity to land on a slope and actually roll into the water. We can argue about the water all we like but surely not about the effects of gravity upon a spherical object.

[Bill Brightly]

Pretty funny report but Golf Channel's Tim Rosafort. He said Gil Hanse had his face buried in his hands watching the players on the back nine today. Gil said that with the wind "this is not what the course was all about." But Tim also quoted the Donald as being VERY happy with how the course played in such wind.

[Rob Curtiss]

If the pros are struggling like this, would the course even be playable to the hacks of the world. You cant predict the wind.
Sounds like it could be pretty miserable time for a resort course, if the wind picks up

[John McCarthy]

I watched a half hour of the tournament this afternoon.  With that much water, that much wind, that much slope on the greens and the high speed of the green it made for a tough day all around.  


But it was tough for everyone.  

Does the PGA demand certain green speeds?  I am very far from a pro but going from a steady diet of country club fast greens to a goat ranch muni screws up my putting.  Would they allow dramatically slower greens on a course with very sloped greens?

[jeffwarne]

If the pros are struggling like this, would the course even be playable to the hacks of the world. You cant predict the wind.
Sounds like it could be pretty miserable time for a resort course, if the wind picks up

Rob,
I'd say it's no more miserable than nearly every course in south florida in such a wind.
The corridors are quite large, unlike many courses where there's OB one side and water on the other
10 looks a bit dicey for the average guy though-seems a little less lake for the shorter resort guest in the shorter "landing area" wouldn't have affected the pros too much

[BCrosby]

The Dufner quote is from after the Thursday round. It is one of the rare times I've heard a pro say that "bomb and gouge" doesn't work as a strategy. He sounded slightly shocked. Which is a back-handed compliment to Hanse.

Interesting to see so many balls finding water after landing in the middle of greens. That might be partly due to tail winds today taking spin off the ball. But the simpler explanation is that the greens are very firm and the pros aren't adjusting. Flying balls pin high is not going to work. All good stuff.

Bob 

[JR Potts]

68 players today...113 water balls.  I can only imagine the response on this board if Rees or Fazio did the redesign.  Must be great to be a GCA sacred cow.  Hypocrites.

[Terry Lavin]

Florida Bomb and Drown.

[Tom ORourke]

Is anyone stunned that South Florida gets windy in early March? Does this make anyone excited to pay $450 to play there? I remember Trevino describing a particular Florida resort course as one where most people play once, loose about a dozen balls in the water, and then never come again. He might bring that line back after today. Trump says he is happy but I can't believe today helped future business.

[Patrick_Mucci]

If the pros are struggling like this, would the course even be playable to the hacks of the world. You cant predict the wind.
Sounds like it could be pretty miserable time for a resort course, if the wind picks up

Rob,

Today's wind is far from a "normal" wind.

It was very, very windy today, probably a two to three club wind for most golfers.

Definitely not the normal winds that sweep the property.

Garland,

They tend to avoid building major airports in swamps.
Doral is not in a swamp.
It was farmland when the Kaskel's bought it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Is anyone stunned that South Florida gets windy in early March?

Yes.

Today's wind was excessive due in part to the storm that blew through yesterday.

South Florida was under a tornado watch until 7:00 pm last night.

Are you stunned by that news ?

Do you think that's normal for South Florida in March ?




Does this make anyone excited to pay $450 to play there? I remember Trevino describing a particular Florida resort course as one where most people play once, loose about a dozen balls in the water, and then never come again. He might bring that line back after today. Trump says he is happy but I can't believe today helped future business.

[Joe Sponcia]

68 players today...113 water balls.  I can only imagine the response on this board if Rees or Fazio did the redesign.  Must be great to be a GCA sacred cow.  Hypocrites.

Eagle!!

[JR Potts]

Florida Bomb and Drown.

Awful to watch... and it looks awful to play.   The wind excuse is b/s.  I grew up going to West Palm every year for spring break... every year it was windy.  Every year at PGA National it's windy.  Would the wind bea viable excuse If Rees built the course?

Christ, balls were caroming off of the middle of greens into hazards 10+ yards away.  Maybe, just maybe, they need some thatch buildup on the greens to make these new greens hold balls...so ill give them another year.  But man, this looks awful.

You couldn't pay me to travel down there and play this, as is.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Florida Bomb and Drown.

Awful to watch... and it looks awful to play.  
The wind excuse is b/s.  

I grew up going to West Palm every year for spring break...

And how many times were there tornado alerts/watches when you were there ?

every year it was windy.  

NOT LIKE TODAY

Every year at PGA National it's windy.

NOT LIKE TODAY !

Would the wind bea viable excuse If Rees built the course?

Christ, balls were caroming off of the middle of greens into hazards 10+ yards away.  
Maybe, just maybe, they need some thatch buildup on the greens to make these new greens hold balls...so ill give them another year.  
But man, this looks awful.

You couldn't pay me to travel down there and play this, as is.

I don't think anyone is going to make the offer, so you needn't worry about it.

[JR Potts]

You'd  be surprised at the invitations I get Mr Mucci.  You're not the only one on here who can claim the title as America's Guest....but thanks.

So if the wind were blowing 20 mph, how many balls would have missed the water and hit the grass, err, I mean miss the grass and hit the water.

Alas, I knew you were the expert on Florida golf, Northeast golf, Notre Dame, Augusta and Seminole, but I didn't know you were also a meteorologist.  My fault...I guess my 30+ years of recollection is flawed.  And, I guess my buddies playing in the event and at the event are just being overly dramatic.

You're right, my apologies.

[hhuffines]

We should have another thread... Mucci on Doral.  Why the vitriol?  I thought the course sucked today.