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Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Trump's the man---admit it!
« on: March 05, 2014, 04:49:04 PM »
The Great Dunes of Scotland, Doral, Doonbeg, Hanse...

c'mon, the guys figured it out.

I think he will go down as one of the all-time great icons in golf history.


Am I cracked...or am I spot on?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2014, 04:52:52 PM »
He seems to have made converts of Brad Klein and Geoff Shackelford, so I'm not sure he needs any of us mutts!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 04:53:20 PM »
I think you are spot on, Mac.

Sure, Trump is a loud, brash, braggart...but he's been very successful in what he's done.  I believe he's realized golfers aren't necessarily interested in giant waterfalls and the like, but he knows they like good golf and great accommodations.  I think if he'd just stop some of his general blow-hardness it would help immensely.  

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 04:58:32 PM »
Not only is Trump a smart man, but he is a very good golfer.  What most people object to is his bluster.  A considerable segment hate him because of his politics, and a smaller number because he is rich and shows it.  In many ways, he is the anti-Buffett, who despite his folksy image may be just as competitive and less disposed to leaving money on the table.

I've only played the original course at Bedminster in Trump's portfolio, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.  I do believe he knows what great golf is all about.  His comments regarding Gil Hanse in Jimmy Roberts's program were very positive.  Too bad that he plays exclusively in the $$$$$ segment.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 05:29:09 PM »
He seems to have made converts of Brad Klein and Geoff Shackelford, so I'm not sure he needs any of us mutts!

Amazing what a good likable architect can do for those two although if Tom Doak did Doral exactly as it is, Geoff would have hated it.

I was reading some quotes from Jack Welch today and almost all of them apply to Trump. 

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jack_welch.html

Hire the best.
Let them spread their wings.
Don't be the smartest guy in the room.
Be willing to change.
Be candid with everyone.

I give Trump credit.

Does anyone know the status on the C&C course that Trump plans in Virginia?

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 05:30:42 PM »
The new (5th) face on the golfing Mount Rushmore? :)
atb

Bill McKinley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2014, 05:42:51 PM »
I'm not sure I'd go that far with my praise from Trump just yet. He is certainly taking advantage of a down market and there's not that much competition. But the biggest thing for me is that his brashness and bull-headed views about his own creations are a real turn off. It screams of insecurity in my opinion. 
2016 Highlights:  Streamsong Blue (3/17); Streamsong Red (3/17); Charles River Club (5/16); The Country Club - Brookline (5/17); Myopia Hunt Club (5/17); Fishers Island Club (5/18); Aronomink GC (10/16); Pine Valley GC (10/17); Somerset Hills CC (10/18)

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 05:51:40 PM »
It seems that he has learned that he doesn't know a lot about architecture, and has changed his approach. He used to insist on aesthetic (his aesthetic) features on golf courses. Now he seems to be letting Martin and Gil have the lead.

If this means he learns from his mistakes, then that's good.
To be foolish enough to make the mistakes in the first place may not be the best recommendation for being "the man".

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jeff Spittel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 05:51:47 PM »
I like that he's a perfectionist, and it's difficult to argue about his selection of architects at Doral. Not sure why every course needs to have a enormous fountain included, but it's his $.

 
Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 06:08:24 PM »
I'm no fan of his style and I don't give a damn about his politics. I just know that there are a lot of US golf courses still in existence because of his involvement. I'm thrilled that he hired Gil at Doral. He is a smart guy. Who is to say that he won't catch the gca bug like the rest of us nuts?  If he does, he certainly has the means to do a lot of good.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 06:11:51 PM »
I don't see Trump as a successful businessman. He starts many ventures, but most eventually go broke. Sometimes he manages to pull out in time, sometimes not. The money he started with (1970s $400 million) was made by his father. If you consider inflation, then he has actually lost money over his lifetime.

Because he sincerely loves golf, his prestigious courses will survive for as long as he lives and can afford to subsidize them. After that they will go under.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Peter Pallotta

Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2014, 06:18:55 PM »
Mac - I don't know if he's the 'man' or not, but I was recently in Florida and, long story short, I found myself at a very nice restaurant for a late dinner. It was a dimly lit place, quiet jazz in the background, and guess what: not two tables away, finishing off his desert, was the man himself, The Donald. He was talking to two slightly younger men (who I didn't recognize), and both were listening attentively. Now, I shouldn't have been listening in, but I couldn't help it - Donald was speaking quite loudly/clearly, and I was on my own. And, since I have a good memory for dialogue, I can remember what he said pretty well. It went something like this:

"We've known each other many years, but this is the first time you came to me for counsel, for help. I can't remember the last time that you invited me to your house for a cup of coffee. But let's be frank here: you never wanted my friendship. [At this point the waiter stepped in to pour them more coffee, and I couldn't hear properly. I picked it up again as:] And now, you come to me with a request, but you don't ask with respect, you don't offer friendship. You don't even think to call me Godfather."

At that point, the two men started to politely defend themselves, and my filet mignon arrived with a number of sides and a bottle of 1968 Chateauneuf du Pape, and I lost interest in their conversation -- so take it for what it's worth.

Peter  
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 06:33:20 PM by PPallotta »

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2014, 06:37:29 PM »
If I ever build a golf course I will erect a huge -- no, not water fountain -- statue of this PPallotta character. All I need to do is figure out the symbolism of putting it on 1 tee vs putting it behind 18 green.

More homage to this Godfather among us: my course will have these squirrel bird feeders.


Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2014, 06:44:43 PM »
I need to change the title of the thread...

Peter's the man. Admit it!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2014, 06:49:08 PM »
Ha ha, thanks Mark - my favourite part being how you managed to find the spitting image of Khartoum (or, at least, was was left of the poor thing...)

Sorry, Mac - was having some fun, but just trying to say that I find DT's 'faith' amazing (faith in himself, in his tastes, in his instincts) -- and how, along with Mike K, he seems to be happily flying right in the face of the conventual wisdom about golf/the industry being 'dead'....and somehow managing to drag a lot of others in his wake and prove the conventional wisdom wrong!

Peter

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2014, 06:57:00 PM »
What Trump knows is that investing is like counting cards in blackjack: you sit at the table chipping in nickels until the odds turn, and then you start throwing in the pumpkins. Well, if you can find any casinos not using a six shoe deck, but I digress.

The key is to have the funds when the time comes, that's the lesson he learned I would guess from painful experience. Or he's spent time with the Oracle of Delphi (PPallotta).
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2014, 07:31:18 PM »
Jim and I interviewed him on the show today.
He was quite articulate and informative.
Nothing earthshatteringly surprising or all that new to those familiar with his recent projects, a small bit of the usual rhetoric (in no small part because we lobbed him a few softballs)
but he was a good interview and I felt he did not come off brash at all and was very well spoken, polite, and flattering of Jim's teaching work and the show.
I had to cut him off as the show was ending, but he may in fact still be speaking..... ;)

I did ask him about whether Hanse would be involved at Doonbeg and he point blank stated he would most likely use Hawtree, which I found a bit disappointing.(Eric Trump had at least hedged a bit on the topic)
Sounds like they definitely will do some significant work there and that they may well be seeking permission to enter areas of the property that Norman was denied access to due to the "endangered" snail that turns out to be a bit less endangered than originally thought.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2014, 08:46:26 PM »
In terms of ego he is clearly a +5 but he has done some good stuff. 

But not as good as Peter Pallotta.  What a post.  "Someday you may need a favor from me."   "Lucca Brazzi swims with the mattresses."  I love Godfather quotes.

BCowan

Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2014, 09:42:39 PM »
''Carolina Golf Club is the Man''!  For doing what looks as a great renovation without all the 24/7 cable news foaming at the mouth.  Nothing to see here, lets get back to ''praising the typical courses''!

Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2014, 09:51:44 PM »
''Carolina Golf Club is the Man''!  For doing what looks as a great renovation without all the 24/7 cable news foaming at the mouth.  Nothing to see here, lets get back to ''praising the typical courses''!

Huh?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2014, 09:55:34 PM »

I don't see Trump as a successful businessman.


By what criteria do you draw that conclusion ?

Forbes has his net worth in the 3.8 Billion range.
Tell us how that's not successful.


He starts many ventures, but most eventually go broke.

So more than 50 % of all the ventures he initiates go broke ?

Would you list them ?

I hope you're not relying on the prepackaged bankruptcies of some casinos in AC as the foundation for your moronic claims


Sometimes he manages to pull out in time, sometimes not.

Why don't you cite 50 of his projects for us and indicate the ones where he pulled out in time, and the ones he didn't.


The money he started with (1970s $400 million) was made by his father.

Trump didn't start with $ 400 Million as you disingenuously claim

Unless you're stating that his father only left his estate to Donald and none to his wife or any of his other four children or their children..


If you consider inflation, then he has actually lost money over his lifetime.

You've got to be more than a moron to make that claim, you've got to be an uninformed schmuck.


Because he sincerely loves golf, his prestigious courses will survive for as long as he lives and can afford to subsidize them.

After that they will go under.

Would you tell us your area of business expertise that leads you to this conclusion ?

Would you tell us why each of his golf courses will go under ?

And, while you're at it, would you let us know the amount that he subsidizes each course ?

Start with Palm Beach and Bedminster.


Ulrich

Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2014, 09:19:54 AM »

I don't see Trump as a successful businessman.


By what criteria do you draw that conclusion ?

Forbes has his net worth in the 3.8 Billion range.
Tell us how that's not successful.


He starts many ventures, but most eventually go broke.

So more than 50 % of all the ventures he initiates go broke ?

Would you list them ?

I hope you're not relying on the prepackaged bankruptcies of some casinos in AC as the foundation for your moronic claims


Sometimes he manages to pull out in time, sometimes not.

Why don't you cite 50 of his projects for us and indicate the ones where he pulled out in time, and the ones he didn't.


The money he started with (1970s $400 million) was made by his father.

Trump didn't start with $ 400 Million as you disingenuously claim

Unless you're stating that his father only left his estate to Donald and none to his wife or any of his other four children or their children..


If you consider inflation, then he has actually lost money over his lifetime.

You've got to be more than a moron to make that claim, you've got to be an uninformed schmuck.


Because he sincerely loves golf, his prestigious courses will survive for as long as he lives and can afford to subsidize them.

After that they will go under.

Would you tell us your area of business expertise that leads you to this conclusion ?

Would you tell us why each of his golf courses will go under ?

And, while you're at it, would you let us know the amount that he subsidizes each course ?

Start with Palm Beach and Bedminster.


Ulrich

Pat-I'm with you in that Ulrich's distaste for Trump overrides any sensibility or objectivity he might have. I will be interested to see if he can answer even a couple of your questions with any degree of accuracy.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2014, 10:21:04 AM »
Though some of his methods leave something to be desired he has definitely had a positive impact on golf when looked at on an international scale although negative here in Scotland. Whether he is the man I really don't know though.

Jon

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump's the man---admit it!
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2014, 10:32:25 AM »
If he combined his actual golf-related actions with a humble-seeming personality, I bet most critics would be Trump butt boys.