[Brett Wiesley]

It seems like more and more courses are adding a combo tee/tees to give players more options for total yardage.  I wonder if this tactic, almost 100% done after the architect has left, compromise their design intent.  For the most part you play back on the short holes, forward on the long holes.  On the true "short par 4", it appears being back a tee compromises the intent of the hole - by allowing the combo tee hitter to always be hitting the long club off the tee, not really having to think about risk or reward off the tee or ball placement.  The combo tee seems to make everything very vanilla. 

Do any architects design to an intended combo tee?

[Chris Cupit]

Combo tees can certainly help provide additional options and choices for players as sometimes there can be a very big gap in yardages.

However, I often see "better players" who want to protect their egos by playing faux length. They play back card yardages on he's that don't matter and move up on holes to avoid long approaches. Some golfers try and customize their course to fit their games. It's a shame that they are trying to avoid the essential challenge of the game. I think a good course presents all golfers with at least a few shots each round that are out of the players comfort zone. It's a shame some golfers use combo tees to avoid this essence of the game. 

[Jordan Standefer]

Do any architects design to an intended combo tee?

Rustic Canyon has a combo yardage on the card named the "Hanse" tees.  They comprise a combination of black, blue, and white tees that come out to roughly 6300 yards (fitting nicely between the 6000 yard whites and 6600 yard blues).  I'm not sure if the architect(s) had planned on this set, but considering the thought that went into combining three sets of tees-- instead of two-- it wouldn't surprise me to learn they did.

[Bill_McBride]

I don't remember those tees at Rustic. Is there a set of tee markers for the Hanse tees, or is the scorecard marked with which tee to use on each hole?

[Dwight Phelps]

I don't remember those tees at Rustic. Is there a set of tee markers for the Hanse tees, or is the scorecard marked with which tee to use on each hole?

The scorecard is marked, but you're using one of the already-marked tees (Black, Blue, or White) - gotta pay attention to the card for the right tee.

[Ally Mcintosh]

My thought process is that you design the tees where they sit naturally - taking in to account how the hole will play of course - and then afterwards you might nominate one tee from where the hole's strategy might best be highlighted.

Pick that tee for each hole and you have the "architect's composite tee". Bring in it around the 6,300 or 6,400 mark and Bob's your uncle.

[Dwight Phelps]

Pick that tee for each hole and you have the "architect's composite tee". Bring in it around the 6,300 or 6,400 mark and Bob's your uncle.

I think it would be an interesting exercise to see how long courses would be if this idea was implemented.  Which architects would end up with 6,500+ yard courses and which ones would naturally fall into your 6,300-6,400 yard category (or less).  I imagine that the site would dictate distances many times, but it would be interesting to see the trends of what architects thought the 'ideal' length of their courses would be.

[Paul Jones]

We have 5 sets of tees, I would love to reduce the number of tee markers and use Combo Tees.

Paul

[Kyle Casella]

I think it depends on the player- what if playing a combo tee enhances architectural features that wouldn't come into play if one played a forward or back tee? Depending on the course playing a combination could make for a more interesting round.

[Jason Topp]

My problem with combo tees is that they typically choose the forward tee for long holes and the back tee for short holes.  The result is a more homogeneous golf course.  It would be interesting sometime to play "reverse" combo tees and see if the reverse combination is more or less enjoyable.

[Bill_McBride]

We have 5 sets of tees, I would love to reduce the number of tee markers and use Combo Tees.

Paul

When are you coming over here to see our SIX sets including one combo set?  

Black, black/blue combo (eliminates several very long par 4s), blue, white, gold (seniors with little ego), red.  

[Tom_Doak]

Brett:

It certainly doesn't "compromise my intent" for a course to set up combo tees.  I'm happy for people to play my courses from anywhere they want.  The USGA handicap system does not agree with giving golfers this much freedom.

On some courses I've outlined the "walker's tees" where you just use the nearest tee to the previous green on each hole ... a good idea on hilly or tightly packed sites.  That's usually the set I use at Lost Dunes, for example.  On other courses [Ballyneal] they generally don't put out any markers at all, so you can choose.

As Paul Jones said, I would much rather build a course with three tees per hole and some "combo" tees, than build five or six separate tees on each hole.

[Nick Schaan]

I wonder if sometimes we forget that most rounds of golf are nothing more than a social competition among friends, and at our club the use of combo tees allows a wider range of players to play together without flighting things. There is no "well so and so won a skin there but he played form the x tees." I have also found as one of the low handicappers at the club, that the combo tees actually require me to be a bit more tactile to gain a significant advantage when the tees are forward, and the higher handicaps can still bang away.

Our combo tees also don't necessarily make use the back tees on shorter holes, or more forward tees on the long holes. Our club didn't use combo tees when it opened in 2008. the professional staff established them once they understood the makeup of the membership likely to use them.

Golf courses have gotten so long that unless there are 5-6 sets of tees, the jump from the tips to the members tees is significant enough where playing something in between is a good option. as a private resort club, it's mostly the members who use them, and we know them well enough that which tee is played on which hole is almost second nature, and the occasional twist in the set-up keeps us on our toes.

 

[Brett Wiesley]

Tom:

I guess the thought comes from when a guy will shift back on the short holes, forward on the long holes.  I get the intent of golf to be pleasing, but I enjoy the thought process and challenge before you when, for example a short hole is in front of you.  Bomb it to the green, or play for a wedge in...but if you are playing up, and then go back a few tees, instead of having that internal battle of decision, you just hit driver like you would normally!!

[Joe Sponcia]

My club has 6 'yardages', soon to be (gasp!) 8.  Mind you, these aren't all separate boxes...but can't wait to see the bowling card.  We'll have to issue 'readers' along with pencils

I agree with Chris.  Egos won't let guys move up a full tee box as they age (or stink) so 'players' tees are created.  "No, you should play the Magenta sir...your partner...um...Burnt Orange".

[Jim Tang]

Highlands of Elgin has combo tees, and I believe they had them right from the beginning.  Not sure if that is what the architect wanted or not.  I really like the combo tee idea.  I wish more courses would do it.  Too many guys are obsessed with yardage and playing it back on every hole.

[Will Peterson]

When done right, I think combo tees are great, especially at older courses with only a couple of boxes. 

When I first saw a combo set, I was pretty excited about the idea.  The course happened to do it poorly.  The course had recently added a number of back tee boxes stretching it to 7200 yards.  It is a tight swampy course, and played super long.  They added two combo sets, and one was around 6900 yards.  The only problem was they moved all the par 4s up and all the par 5s back.  I did like how they did the par 3s.  You played one from each box, and they ranged from 150-225.  It turned out that all the par 5s played 550-610, and were all just three shot holes.  None of the par 4s were over 420 from the combo tees.  I would have liked to see a mix on the par 5s, with at least one having a chance at going in two, and a couple of the par 4s to be 450+.  That would have made it a much better mix.

[Jordan Standefer]

Will,

I'm with you.  Combo tees can be a great addition for players who want a little variety on courses they play multiple times and/or for players who find themselves getting better.

I have played one course off the top of my head from the combo tees where it seemed like every par 4 was Driver-9 iron.  Absolutely no variety, just for the sake of filling a yardage gap.  What a waste.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I have a different view/theory.

I think combo/tees cater to the golfers who want the golf course to conform to their play, rather than them conforming to the golf course.

I think that they're a concession to dumbing down the game while in pursuit of par.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

What's more important? The architects intent or the members who own the course or the public who plays the course?

[Sean_A]

Bottom line, most courses use tees which are too long and now they want to create something more user friendly. Why not just be friendly in the first place?  Women around 4500-5000; men 5800-6300; medal 6600-6800.  If a proper champ course (very few of this ilk and far less than the currently claim) one more set as far back as practicable.  If folks want to move around between tees, just do it.  Why wait for a printed card allowing access to your own course?

Even the basic outlay above is tough to do well.  A 1600-2300 yard spread is immense and very difficult to use the terrain and features well for all sets.  I am starting to believe that not only should there be bifurcation in equipment but also for courses 

Ciao

[Joe Sponcia]

Will,

I think you nailed it.  The goal of 'players tees' is to never have to play a long iron or 5 wood into a green, yet still have vanity length.  True three shot par 5's are the sacrificial lamb.

[Doug Wright]

I think combo tees are a very good idea if done thoughtfully.  Our course, which is not very long from the back tees at altitude, nevertheless has a few holes with either daunting carries off the tee or challenging length for most players. So the combo tees, which we’ve had for about 3-4 years, and of which there are four (one on front 9/three on back 9), address that. For example, the 18th hole is a 480 yard par 4 from the back tee and 430 yards from the regular tee. From the back tee, I can’t reach the fairway bunker (which is a true hole-killing hazard), but I can definitely reach the bunker from the regular tee. So the tee shot from the regular/combo tee is much more interesting (and more challenging) to me than the tee shot from the back tee.

I play one of the three sets of tees (back/regular/combo) depending on the day and the group. The combo tees add variety and add to the enjoyment of the game, which is what it’s all about, right? PS, some of you young bombers also will come to appreciate combo tees as a nice transition from the back tees to the front tees when you encounter the inevitable passiage of time.   

[Kevin Lynch]

I have a different view/theory.

I think combo/tees cater to the golfers who want the golf course to conform to their play, rather than them conforming to the golf course.

I think that they're a concession to dumbing down the game while in pursuit of par.

It only "dumbs down" the game to the extent that the person creating the tees homogenizes the challenges.  In the right hands, combo tees accentuate the variety of challenges built in by the architect.

During the annual Saul Shootout at Ballyhack, Wade Whitehead does a masterful job of mixing the tees throughout the weekend.  The same par 3 may vary from short/mid-iron to hybrid.  Drive zones, preferred angles, & risk/reward options change significantly.  I would never think Lester George's intent is compromised by well thought out combo tees.

[Matthew Petersen]

I'm not a huge fan, generally, mostly for reasons already illuminated here. Most combo tees seem to strive to make every hole 370 yards, instead of some at 400 and some at 340.

I do think they can be useful on certain sites where there are significant forced carries for whatever reason (desert, wetlands, etc) in that you have some flexibility then with building tees that do require a dramatic carry, but you're not necessarily then making the course unplayable for a player who has game but can't carry the ball super far. But ... that's really just something I can imagine working in theory, not sure I've ever really seen it implemented successfully ... or if it has then the rest of the set still falls into my complaint above.

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