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Adam Warren

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Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2014, 01:08:04 PM »
How about just adding cart paths to Chambers? Admit it was a stupid idea to build a public course with no cart access. It only works for now at Bandon because of the spectacular site.

The course is fescue.  If they add cart accessibility it would CPO all the time or they would have to completely re-grass the entire course.

John Percival

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2014, 08:39:26 PM »
The first two points about CB and EH are examples of a course developing over time. In fact, one of the greatest 'developments' ever occurred at PB. The 18th, regarded by many as one of the game's great finishing holes, was originally a 400 yd par 4. The green and tee were both moved back to become the hole we know today.
And PB has support facilities and framework already in place, so why would they need more?

The fact is that both CB and EH represent questionable and hurried decisions by the usga

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2014, 11:11:03 PM »
...
And PB has support facilities and framework already in place, so why would they need more?
...

Maybe you should tell that to those members of the website that went to the last Open there and swore they'd never be back.

I don't know what your prejudice is, but why don't you shop it somewhere else.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2014, 11:49:04 PM »
I think Chambers Bay is a fantastic course but for the 17th green site.

That being said, I have no idea where people are going to park, how bad traffic is going to be on the two lane road to the course, or how spectators are going to get from the top of the hill to the course. 

It will be a success because it will be the biggest sporting event in the area and the fans will probably come out despite the hurdles.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2014, 12:14:48 AM »
...
That being said, I have no idea where people are going to park, how bad traffic is going to be on the two lane road to the course, or how spectators are going to get from the top of the hill to the course. 
...

There is a public hiking path through the whole course that connects to the top of the hill at both ends. I don't see a problem here as people are doing it every day while golf is going on now.

There will be commuter trains taking people to the course on the rail line from both Seattle and Olympia.

At one time, there were plans to have a ferry terminal there too. Don't know what the status of that is now.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2014, 12:20:29 AM »
That being said, I have no idea where people are going to park, how bad traffic is going to be on the two lane road to the course, or how spectators are going to get from the top of the hill to the course. 

It will be a success because it will be the biggest sporting event in the area and the fans will probably come out despite the hurdles.

Hopefully, the trains, which have been confirmed, will help alleviate a good chunk of the traffic.

As for it being a success, there is little doubt about it (at least financially). The 4,500 volunteer spots were filled in 36 hours (instead of the average 3-4 months) and an additional 1,500 signed up for the waiting list (that number is up to 2,807 on the waiting list now). The corporate sales are through the roof; the number of packages are in the SINGLE digits because many local businesses teamed up to buy them. Because sales don't typically pick up until after the Open the year before (still 3+ months away), many of the large, typical companies are close to being completely left out.

***all of the info above is from the front page of the local paper***
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2014, 10:48:04 AM »
looking forward to the US Open!

as the event approaches it will be interesting to see how things become spun or respun as to the success or future of CB

It's all about the golf!

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2014, 11:42:04 PM »
Considering that the park must stay and the waste treatment plant must have room for expansion, the second golf course would be a tight fit.
Plus, the area south of the park and driving range (right in pic) is very flat. There would probably be a lot of dirt moved.



At first I thought, there is not enough land for a golf course there. But they could put a bunch of par 3 holes next to the water. It would probably end up being the west coast version of Liberty National. In fact, in the weird world of links golf, the new course, could be more liked by retail golfers because it would be a flat course, with carts, next to a large body of water. Just like Florida. I am fine with that as Chambers Bay would be less crowded and played by those who appreciate it.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2014, 01:04:40 AM »
What did the article say? They have something like 900 acres? They didn't use most of that for the present facility. I think what everyone may be overlooking is that they own the property on either side of the stream. So perhaps they could be thinking of something like Highland Links. Sea to forest and back to the sea again.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Nick Schaan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2014, 04:53:40 PM »
Sometimes as designers we want people to think we didn't have to do much, especially when we did. At times we should be proud of the amount of creativity that was required to build something really outstanding.

In between working for John Harbottle III and moving on to David Kidd's team, I was the assistant superintendent of construction at Chambers Bay. Working for contractor I had no creative involvement in the project, but know every inch of that place and the site had a number of challenges that aren't often discussed. I grew up nearby, and can't wait to see the tournament next summer. I think it will be spectacular, and feel fortunate to have been involved.

The site was heavily earthworked and entirely created. There were number of significant cut and fills, including 300,000 yards of sand were excavated and screened for capping. The only "natural" features were the 6th fairway and green site, 10 green site, 11, 12. The portion of the site where most of the course, except for 12,13,14, was essentially mined out prior to construction and the holes in the bottom of the course 2,3, part of 4, 5, 16, 17 and 18 were mostly barren gravel with some sand. Those areas were extremely soft and susceptible to liquefaction. There is a large under-drain system under this portion of the course, and excavators had to operate from floating pads at times to complete the work.

As for the imported material; the only soil that was imported was USGA rootzone and the gravel blanket to construct the greens and it came from 30 miles SE of the project. Everything else was found on site, including the rock used for the under-drains. The sand that was excavated, screened and used to cap the site came from what are holes 13,14,the second half of  #4. The excavation that was made to build the 10th fairway cutting through the giant "dune" to expose the 10th green required the largest excavator I have ever seen on a golf project. The 'Dune" was comprised of the tailings from past gravel and sand washing operations and was extremely fine in particle size. This material was used to build a number of the dune features between holes. Jay and I got stuck once in the fairway playing dirt golf about 50yards short of the green after the hole had been shaped. We drove up to the green, parked, and when we sat back in the truck and closed the doors it sank all the way to the undercarriage and had to be pulled out with a dozer.

The net cut/fill number was in the range of 1.5 million, but the actual volume moved when the sand screening and capping operation is included is closer to 2 million.

If I remember correctly the remaining part of the site is fairly flat and consists of a series of different decks. How much earthwork is required depends on the plan for the course.

The hotel development for the course has been a long term goal, and it is great to finally see someone is on board. Will the hotel turn Chambers Bay into a golf destination all by itself? I doubt it, but another golf course will certainly help.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 08:04:13 PM by Nick Schaan »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2014, 06:44:59 PM »
Nick,

Thanks for the detail. Since they were essentially doing a reclamation project, it's clear that most features were built. Anyone who saw the dozer tracked dunes knows that.

If I understand you correctly, the "mined out sections" were where there was fill being done. And the obvious cut was #10. Are there any other significant fills and cuts?

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Nick Schaan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2014, 08:22:07 PM »
Garland,

I don't want to give away all her secrets, but think its important to note that there were a lot of logistics required to execute the mass grading due to the varied soils and remnants of years of mining. Noting the significant works let's say 10' +\- :

#1 fairway/green was a fill, #2 fairway was a fill, #3 green was a fill, the second half of #4 was a massive cut, #8 was a massive cut and fill, #9the area short of the green was cut to fill the green, #10 fairway was obviously a cut, #13 fairway and green, and the first 300 yards of #14 were a massive cut.

As for the dozer tracks, there was concern that some of the shapes would get lost  if we finished them out, and they would disappear once the wind and rain eroded them anyway. The tracks were also left to provide a pocket for the seed to rest so it didn't all wash down to the bottom. What I don't think anyone expected was that the sand set up really hard. You could putt on it three or four days after it was spun off with a sand pro, thus the track marks never eroded.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay Development
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2014, 08:40:06 PM »
Thanks for the response Nick. I appreciate you taking the time.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

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