New Member. Greetings from Tennessee!

[Ryan Swilling]

Good evening everybody,

I found this site a few years ago when researching sod faced bunkers and I am extremely glad I did. I have been lurking ever since and there is so much good information and many knowledgeable members. I look forward to joining you all in discussions in the forum.

A little about myself:

My name is Ryan Swilling and I am 34 years old. I have been in the golf industry for a little over 18 years. I grew up in Chattanooga, TN and started out working on a maintenance crew at 15 years old as a summer job to save up money to buy a car. I fell in love with being on the course and seeing the results from hard work. I ended up staying on a maintenance crew every summer through high school and college.

Upon graduating college I had the opportunity to take an assistant superintendents position in Ooltewah, Tn. The Champions Club was a 9 hole course that was expanding to 18 holes and  renovating the existing 9. I was very excited to jump in on a grow-in and renovation. The course was designed by Ron Matthews/Carter Morrish/Jay Morrish, ASGCA. It was unbelievable how much I learned during this time.

After a successful opening I stayed on through the following summer and I had heard Greg Norman was building a course just south of Knoxville in Loudon, TN named Tennessee National. I interviewed for the Assistant's position and I was hired the next week. I was so excited to be a part of the Norman designed course. Even after already doing a grow-in/construction I learned even more this go around and really got to see many different ways of doing things.

We opened Tennessee National in 2006 and I am currently the Senior Assistant Superintendent and working hard to become a head superintendent. It really is a great golf course and the property that it is located on is amazing. One thing unique to our area is our sod wall bunkers. We have over 60 of them and they are a challenge from both maintenance and a golfer's standpoint.

I look forward to learning more from this site and I thank all of you for the information.

[Eric Smith]

Welcome, Ryan! I've played your course at Tennessee National and enjoyed it a great deal. Could you tell us more about the material used in the sod wall bunkers? I remember there being some sort of hard substance on the sod faces, maybe sprayed on? Never seen anything quite like that before. Thanks

[JESII]

Welcome aboard Ryan, thank you for the nice introduction!

[Joe Sponcia]

Ryan,

Welcome!  I'm just up the road in Knoxville and play at Fox Den.  You guys do a great job keeping TN National in exceptional shape, especially considering all of the turf you have to maintain. 

Joe

[Ryan Swilling]

Welcome, Ryan! I've played your course at Tennessee National and enjoyed it a great deal. Could you tell us more about the material used in the sod wall bunkers? I remember there being some sort of hard substance on the sod faces, maybe sprayed on? Never seen anything quite like that before. Thanks

Thanks! When the bunkers were originally constructed, we were trying to make a way for the sodwalls to last more than the 5 or so years they a supposed to last. We tried a few things but ultimately our Superintendent at the time decided on spraying the faces with Klingstone mixed with a chocolate brown dye. Klingstone has been used mainly as a bunker liner but not for sodwall faces.

Some holes have held up better than others. The freezing and thawing here in Tennessee has been an issue with these bunkers with the faces sliding off. We have tried cleaning the faces off and respraying but unless the sod face is completely dry it is worthless. We have totally rebuilt about 20 of the 62 that are out there. After time, especially after a heavy rain storm some of the older ones will collapse. The ones we have rebuilt were rebuilt differently almost like a retaining wall with gravel behind the wall all the way down to a gravel base with drainage on the bottom. This has seemed to work well but they are still fairly new so time will tell. We no longer spray them with Klingstone.

[Ryan Swilling]

Ryan,

Welcome!  I'm just up the road in Knoxville and play at Fox Den.  You guys do a great job keeping TN National in exceptional shape, especially considering all of the turf you have to maintain. 

Joe

Thank you Joe! Fox Den is a great course. We are currently maintaining a little over 120 acres. We are currently in planning stages of reducing that and adding some more native/natural areas hopefully soon.

[Joe Sponcia]

Ryan,

120!!!  You have got to be kidding me!?!!  I would have guessed in the 150 range.  I'm guessing the par 3's help knock that down?

Don't spread the word on the Natural area's, seems it is an unpopular design element on GCA , but I like them to frame holes.

[Chris Oldham]

Welcome to GCA, good to see a fellow East Tennessean on here.  I live in Knoxville and I've played Tennessee National may times and love it - one of the better tracks around.  I'm especially curious to see what the new owners do for the course.

[Ryan Swilling]

Ryan,

120!!!  You have got to be kidding me!?!!  I would have guessed in the 150 range.  I'm guessing the par 3's help knock that down?

Don't spread the word on the Natural area's, seems it is an unpopular design element on GCA , but I like them to frame holes.

120 is what we actually maintain not including the native areas, including those it would be closer to 150. We still have do some maintenance to those areas but it is not included in our total.

I personally like the natural areas on courses as long as it is still kept clean and not just over taken with non grass plants and weeds. As long as it doesn't come too much into play I like the look.

[Ryan Swilling]

Welcome to GCA, good to see a fellow East Tennessean on here.  I live in Knoxville and I've played Tennessee National may times and love it - one of the better tracks around.  I'm especially curious to see what the new owners do for the course.

Thanks Chris! I am glad you like the course. Wave me down next time you are out. I am the one with the yellow lab glued to my hip haha.

[Bill_McBride]

Ryan, when I played Muirfield a few years ago, the crew was reworking a few of their sod faced bunkers.  It appears they rework a certain number each year.   Are you on a regular schedule where you redo a certain number each year?   If so, what is the time frame to rework them all?   At Muirfield the crew was tearing the walls completely down and starting from scratch.  Is that your plan?   It seems like an expensive program if attempted on a short term, I.e. three or four years. 

[Ryan Swilling]

Ryan, when I played Muirfield a few years ago, the crew was reworking a few of their sod faced bunkers.  It appears they rework a certain number each year.   Are you on a regular schedule where you redo a certain number each year?   If so, what is the time frame to rework them all?   At Muirfield the crew was tearing the walls completely down and starting from scratch.  Is that your plan?   It seems like an expensive program if attempted on a short term, I.e. three or four years. 

Hey Bill,
So far, we have not had a regular schedule as far as rebuilding them. We haven't had to  rebuild any on 1,2,6,7, and 11.  We had once received a bid to do a complete tear down and rebuild on the sod walls and it was really high. We have rebuilt ones on the other holes, but it has been if they have fallen after a huge storm, or ones that were showing signs of failing.

It would be too expensive to completely rebuild every 4 or 5 years. As far as regular maintenance goes, we spend 80% more time on the traditional bunkers. They are not very costly to maintain, but if they do need to be rebuilt its not as bad doing a few at a time.

One of the larger bunkers would use up around 12 pallets of sod. If it was possible to use a mini x we could have one cleaned out in a day depending on the size. If it is a tight area, about 3 days by hand. Rebuilding using the gravel behind the wall and tying in the top with the bermuda would usually take around 5 days depending on the size.

[BCowan]

Welcome Ryan

   Does your fairways have Bermuda or Zoysia Grass?  Do you prefer one over the other?  Does Zoysia reduce ball run out off tee shots being more sticky grass?

[Ryan Swilling]

Welcome Ryan

   Does your fairways have Bermuda or Zoysia Grass?  Do you prefer one over the other?  Does Zoysia reduce ball run out off tee shots being more sticky grass?

Thanks BCowan,

The greens are A-1 bentgrass, cavalier zoysia collars, and GN-2 bermuda fairways, tees, and rough. I actually prefer Zoysia in the fairways if I had a choice. We have it around the greens and on a few tees and it is awesome.

I think it is all in how it is managed with the ball roll. I have played the Honors Course in Ooltewah, Tn many times on their Zoysia fairways. The ball still got plenty of roll and always had a perfect lie. I've noticed the ball will spin more on the green when hitting off of the Zoysia fairways there. I have also played on bermuda and zoysia where didnt get any ball roll.

I think the management of keeping the fairways hard and fast is key to either type of turf.

[PCCraig]

Welcome Ryan!

[Jim Tang]

Welcome Ryan.  What part of your job do you enjoy most?

[Ryan Swilling]

Thanks PCraig!

Thanks Jim!
There are many things I like most about my job. There is defiantly a huge pride factor when it comes to the course and my crew. I am very proud of my guys and the work that they do. People may not notice some of the small things, but someone will if you do not do them. I like to keep that mindset so you can focus on every detail of the course.

 If I had to pick one thing I like the best it would have to be the leadership role you have to take on. There is nothing like organizing and scheduling 20 guys doing different things everyday and everybody working together to make it run smoothly. Its very exciting every morning in the golf season watching everything unfold that you have planned.

[Ryan Coles]

Ryan

Do you think 20 guys is excessive for 150 acres?

[Ryan Swilling]

Hey Ryan,

I'm sure you could ask most Superintendents and they would probably like a few more if they could. 

20 is our summer crew and we go down to 8 for the off season. That 150 acres is not including  130k sqft of greens and over 150k sqft of bunkers.  It takes a large crew to keep the course in top shape, especially with all of the bunkers we have and all the work it takes to keep them up to standards. The bunkers are not flat by any means, so to mow around them is a job in itself with the fly mowers.

[Ryan Coles]

Compared to the UK, I'm amazed at some of the comparisons to the US.

Namely the high cost to play, huge staffing levels and huge (mostly empty) clubhouses.

All the visitors to the UK from across the pond must be appalled at the conditioning of our courses yet amazed at how inexpensive they are to join.

If you went down to 10 staff and halved your fee from 6k to 3k would things really deteriorate that much? At what stage do huge staff and resulting huge fees stop adding much to the end result? My gut tells me the optimum fees and staffing in the US is too high and vice versa in the UK. Generally speaking of course.

[Ryan Swilling]

Ryan,

This should probably be a whole new topic in another thread, but without going to far into it I will try.

I cannot speak for clubs in the UK as I am not experienced with managing turf there. I also cannot speak for other clubs other than ones I have worked for without spending the time to get a true understanding of what it takes to maintain them correctly. This is a process and there is not a template for putting together a maintenance plan for any course as they are all different. There is so much variance from place to place ranging from members expectations, climate, budget, amount of bunkers, bentgrass vs bermuda greens, style of course, acreage, shade, water restrictions, air movement, the list goes on and on. 

It is unfair to say well this club has 150 acres and they have 5 guys on their crew why do you have 20? You must compare apples to apples.

[Ryan Coles]

Fair points, Ryan. Of course there is far more to man power than acreage.

All I can really offer is that I'd be amazed if any Club in the UK had 20 green staff on an 18 hole course however labour intensive and even at the very top end. Typical Club would be 4-6. Top 100 7-9,  elite no more than 12. Whereas it seems fairly common place in the US and 20 doesn't seem out of the ordinarily. Blame the designer? A waste of money? Higher expectations? Augusta syndrome? Or simply climatic conditions?

whatever the reasons, I can only conclude that most UK Courses punch above their weight in rankings v maintenance cost and not just seaside courses. E.G would there be a tangible difference to most people's playing experience if you went down from 20 to 12 and say West Hill in England went from 8 to 12?

[Adam Warren]

20 seems a lot to me regardless of facility.  It sounds to me like a person per hole plus Super and Asst. Super.  The only course in my area I could think of that might even be close is Valhalla, or perhaps one of the courses owned by the casinos (Chariot Run and Belterra) and their seemingly bottomless pockets.

For reference, my club has 3 full-time guys, with a 4th in the summer.  This is in Kentucky with Rye grass fairways and obviously bent grass greens.  I would go as far to say that we have one of the best conditioned public/ semi-private courses in the area.  This is not to knock your club and their practices.  It is great that they are able to create that many jobs for people in your area.  I am sure our super would take 20 guys if we allowed it and could afford it.  I also know what my expectations would be with 20 guys.  I have worked at several nice facilities and the most I can remember are 10-12 workers in season.  Gotta keep your work at a high level with those kinds of resources.

When Liddy visited our course, he was amazed at the level of care with only 3 full time guys.  I concur, as I have seen many facilities with many more workers that look in very below average conditions. 

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Big welcome, it is always a pleasure to have somebody from the grass roots level  who really knows his stuff to keep us wanna bes in shape.

[Nick Church]

From over near Nashville - welcome to GCA.com, Ryan.