Ice Damage At Augusta

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Seems like this latest storm is presenting real problems due to the accumulation of ice.  Does a course like ANGC, which I would think has a detailed accounting of each tree on the property fair better in conditions like these vs a course that just lets the trees be trees?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Not sure I'd call an ice storm at ANGC a tragedy, particularly if it hits the "right" trees. Also, ice will insulate and protect the grass, yes? I'd think the Polar Vortex I & II would have caused more damage. (But this is ANGC -- undoubtedly they pulled Plan 39A off the shelf to protect the greens, aka the Sub-Air, heated-tent, smudge-pot, retractable-dome strategy.)

[jeffwarne]

Not sure I'd call an ice storm at ANGC a tragedy, particularly if it hits the "right" trees. Also, ice will insulate and protect the grass, yes? I'd think the Polar Vortex I & II would have caused more damage. (But this is ANGC -- undoubtedly they pulled Plan 39A off the shelf to protect the greens, aka the Sub-Air, heated-tent, smudge-pot, retractable-dome strategy.)

Ice storms are common in Augusta-grass will be fine as rye overseed and bent greens are northern grasses anyway.
be nice to lose a bunch of the smaller new pines, but sadly at the rate they replant lately it wouldn't matter-really hate the circular pinebeds around them

[Peter Pallotta]

Actually Mark and Emile, while I can't be sure (Augusta being as private as it is) I have heard from reliable sources that the club has a standing team of 100 out of work opera singers (mostly tenors and baritones, but some basses too) on retainer for just such a situation as this, paid well for most of the year to do nothing at all but then swiftly brought to bear to fan out across the course and to sing the most famous arias from the best operas (mostly by the Italians, Verdi especially) at the top of their lungs directly at/to the damaged/ice covered trees, such that the minute or two of intense hot air emanating from these large and well trained singers combined with the hot-house lachrymosity of the lyrics quickly melt all the ice and bring health and wholeness back to the trees. Cliff Roberts got a lot of criticism over the years for changing and micro-managing Augusta and the Masters, but according to my source this is one of his ideas that has stood the test of time (even if it costs the club a boatload of money.) The trouble, needless to say, is that few courses around the country could afford such maintenance practices, even if they could find -- unlikely in any place but New York or Chicago -- one hundred out of work tenors. But that's what makes the Masters a tournament like no other. (Man, I wish Verdi was around today to write an opera about it. "Ridi, Bubba Watson.....")

[Mark Bourgeois]

You know this is a tough winter when Canadians go off the rails. 

[Jim Nugent]

Peter, actually it costs the club nothing.  They only invite singers who also play golf.  By comping them a free round at ANGC, the operatic virtuosos stand in line to volunteer their services. 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Didn't  you guys read Ran's signing on instructions? That's no 8 on the list of  expenditures that we are prohibited from discussing lest all top 136 Green Committee's decide they must assess their members for.  (You read the bit about the top 136, right?)


Man if any of you as much as hint at what the Dwarf Lesbians do, I swear he'll get a few people round here whacked!
And may I add, not before time.

[Tim_Cronin]

Actually Mark and Emile, while I can't be sure (Augusta being as private as it is) I have heard from reliable sources that the club has a standing team of 100 out of work opera singers (mostly tenors and baritones, but some basses too) on retainer for just such a situation as this, paid well for most of the year to do nothing at all but then swiftly brought to bear to fan out across the course and to sing the most famous arias from the best operas (mostly by the Italians, Verdi especially) at the top of their lungs directly at/to the damaged/ice covered trees, such that the minute or two of intense hot air emanating from these large and well trained singers combined with the hot-house lachrymosity of the lyrics quickly melt all the ice and bring health and wholeness back to the trees. Cliff Roberts got a lot of criticism over the years for changing and micro-managing Augusta and the Masters, but according to my source this is one of his ideas that has stood the test of time (even if it costs the club a boatload of money.) The trouble, needless to say, is that few courses around the country could afford such maintenance practices, even if they could find -- unlikely in any place but New York or Chicago -- one hundred out of work tenors. But that's what makes the Masters a tournament like no other. (Man, I wish Verdi was around today to write an opera about it. "Ridi, Bubba Watson.....")

Would Bob Verdi do?

[Adam Lawrence]

Actually Mark and Emile, while I can't be sure (Augusta being as private as it is) I have heard from reliable sources that the club has a standing team of 100 out of work opera singers (mostly tenors and baritones, but some basses too) on retainer for just such a situation as this, paid well for most of the year to do nothing at all but then swiftly brought to bear to fan out across the course and to sing the most famous arias from the best operas (mostly by the Italians, Verdi especially) at the top of their lungs directly at/to the damaged/ice covered trees, such that the minute or two of intense hot air emanating from these large and well trained singers combined with the hot-house lachrymosity of the lyrics quickly melt all the ice and bring health and wholeness back to the trees. Cliff Roberts got a lot of criticism over the years for changing and micro-managing Augusta and the Masters, but according to my source this is one of his ideas that has stood the test of time (even if it costs the club a boatload of money.) The trouble, needless to say, is that few courses around the country could afford such maintenance practices, even if they could find -- unlikely in any place but New York or Chicago -- one hundred out of work tenors. But that's what makes the Masters a tournament like no other. (Man, I wish Verdi was around today to write an opera about it. "Ridi, Bubba Watson.....")

Che gelido tronco?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Actually Mark and Emile, while I can't be sure (Augusta being as private as it is) I have heard from reliable sources that the club has a standing team of 100 out of work opera singers (mostly tenors and baritones, but some basses too) on retainer for just such a situation as this, paid well for most of the year to do nothing at all but then swiftly brought to bear to fan out across the course and to sing the most famous arias from the best operas (mostly by the Italians, Verdi especially) at the top of their lungs directly at/to the damaged/ice covered trees, such that the minute or two of intense hot air emanating from these large and well trained singers combined with the hot-house lachrymosity of the lyrics quickly melt all the ice and bring health and wholeness back to the trees. Cliff Roberts got a lot of criticism over the years for changing and micro-managing Augusta and the Masters, but according to my source this is one of his ideas that has stood the test of time (even if it costs the club a boatload of money.) The trouble, needless to say, is that few courses around the country could afford such maintenance practices, even if they could find -- unlikely in any place but New York or Chicago -- one hundred out of work tenors. But that's what makes the Masters a tournament like no other. (Man, I wish Verdi was around today to write an opera about it. "Ridi, Bubba Watson.....")

Would Bob Verdi do?

That episode would be major DVR alert.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Not sure I'd call an ice storm at ANGC a tragedy, particularly if it hits the "right" trees.

Also, ice will insulate and protect the grass, yes?

NO, ice will kill or badly damage grass.
Some greens in NJ haven't recovered from ice damage incurred two years ago.

Snow can insulate, but not ice.

But, I don't see ice lasting long in Augusta as compared to the NYC area, Minneapolis or Buffalo.


 I'd think the Polar Vortex I & II would have caused more damage. (But this is ANGC -- undoubtedly they pulled Plan 39A off the shelf to protect the greens, aka the Sub-Air, heated-tent, smudge-pot, retractable-dome strategy.)

[Jim Sherma]

Wow, I just hope Augusta's membership can afford to fix any damage

[SL_Solow]

Tim,  nice reference to Bob Verdi.  Pat is right, ice is not good for grass.  The supers can educate us regarding the length of time needed to cause real damage which I believe varies with the type of grass. After awhile, if you break up the ice, the smell can give away anaerobic activity which causes major problems.

[Lyndell Young]

I agree with Patrick,our temps this past week were not low enough to cause any turf damage ,and only lasted for a few days.

[Mike_Young]

Pat,
Many supts with the ultradwarf greens will spend the night of a hard freeze spraying water on their greens to coat them with a layer of ice....It happened a lot down here in the last few weeks.
Mike

[jeffwarne]

same with oranges Mike
32 degrees is better than 10

I sense a wave of green ink coming

[Mike_Young]

same with oranges Mike
32 degrees is better than 10

I sense a wave of green ink coming

Green ink will definitely kill a green...winter or summer

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,
Many supts with the ultradwarf greens will spend the night of a hard freeze spraying water on their greens to coat them with a layer of ice....It happened a lot down here in the last few weeks.

Mike,

How do you think those greens would fare if the ice remained on them for most of the winter ?

No one's talking about an evening of ice, rather a layer of ice that's on the greens for a prolonged period of time.

Based upon the videos of Georgians/Atlantans driving in wintry conditions, I think you'll have to cede experience with ice to those of us North of the Mason-Dixon line, on and off the golf course.

[Mike_Young]

Pat,
Many supts with the ultradwarf greens will spend the night of a hard freeze spraying water on their greens to coat them with a layer of ice....It happened a lot down here in the last few weeks.

Mike,

How do you think those greens would fare if the ice remained on them for most of the winter ?

No one's talking about an evening of ice, rather a layer of ice that's on the greens for a prolonged period of time.

Based upon the videos of Georgians/Atlantans driving in wintry conditions, I think you'll have to cede experience with ice to those of us North of the Mason-Dixon line, on and off the golf course.

Pat,
I actually think it would not hurt the bermuda grass greens.  I'm not sure about the bent...
And as for experience with ice....many northerners that move here will admit that the big issue we have that they never had was freezing rain not sleet or ice...the freezing rain coats the trees and creates the problems there and also creates our driving problems.  I live in Minneapolis one winter and can attest that driving here is much worse than there only if due to them having plows and us having none....BUT I will admit I have an a8 Audi with quatro and I took it in a parking lot on solid ice to see if I could lose control and it was amazing that I could not even get it to slip...I tried for 15 minutes..we can drive in that stuff also....

[Joel_Stewart]

Doesn't ANGC have sub air on all of the greens?   I believe the ex superintendent invented it.

My guess is the greens are warm and toasty.

[Mike_Young]

Joel,
Marsh was involved with the guy that did invent it and he is still the Director of Grounds or whatever they call it...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,
Many supts with the ultradwarf greens will spend the night of a hard freeze spraying water on their greens to coat them with a layer of ice....It happened a lot down here in the last few weeks.

Mike,

How do you think those greens would fare if the ice remained on them for most of the winter ?

No one's talking about an evening of ice, rather a layer of ice that's on the greens for a prolonged period of time.

Based upon the videos of Georgians/Atlantans driving in wintry conditions, I think you'll have to cede experience with ice to those of us North of the Mason-Dixon line, on and off the golf course.

Pat,
I actually think it would not hurt the bermuda grass greens.  I'm not sure about the bent...

Ice mold is devastating to bent, poa and other northern strains.

And as for experience with ice....many northerners that move here will admit that the big issue we have that they never had was freezing rain not sleet or ice...the freezing rain coats the trees and creates the problems there and also creates our driving problems. 

As I look out my office window right now, the trees are covered in ice.
Those northerners who told you that must have been from North Carolina.

I live in Minneapolis one winter and can attest that driving here is much worse than there only if due to them having plows and us having none....
How about experience in driving on snow and ice ?

BUT I will admit I have an a8 Audi with quatro and I took it in a parking lot on solid ice to see if I could lose control and it was amazing that I could not even get it to slip...I tried for 15 minutes..we can drive in that stuff also....

Not according to CNN 

But, I'll offer you a test.

Athletes use cold plunges, tubs filled with ice, water and sometimes salt for muscle ailments.

Fill up your bathtub with ice, add water and a quart of salt, then, get in.  Then, tell me when your balls turn blue, then time it until your face turns blue, then, imagine that you're grass.  Do you think you'd survive a week ?  A month ?  The winter ?

[Mike_Young]

Patrick,
How much longer do you want me to stay in this tub of water?

[jeffwarne]

Pat,
Many supts with the ultradwarf greens will spend the night of a hard freeze spraying water on their greens to coat them with a layer of ice....It happened a lot down here in the last few weeks.

Mike,

How do you think those greens would fare if the ice remained on them for most of the winter ?

No one's talking about an evening of ice, rather a layer of ice that's on the greens for a prolonged period of time.

Based upon the videos of Georgians/Atlantans driving in wintry conditions, I think you'll have to cede experience with ice to those of us North of the Mason-Dixon line, on and off the golf course.

Pat,
the thread is about ice at ANGC.
You say "no one's talking about an evening of ice"
Actually, everyone on the thread is talking about exactly that.
ANGC is  located in Augusta, GA, hence the name-and hence the thread title.
So ice in Augusta, on the greens  will not hurt them because it will be gone in a day or two, and according to Mike Young that's often done in the south intentionally to insulate the grass, as well as often done by orange growers in Florida.
You say "snow can insulate, but not ice"
When they spray their greens and orange trees, what exactly do you think forms?
Ice!!!-which insulates for a day or two while they wait for temps to return to normal.

Having ice on your greens all winter may well damage your greens in NJ or NY-that's not the case in GA as it doesn't happen.
Stick to New Jersey..,, or at least to a thread about NJ.
Not sure Seminole's ever had ice on their greens so perhaps we can work Pine Valley or NGLA into the conversation

and those idiots you saw sliding around on the ice in Atlanta during the last freezing ran event weren't from the south, the southerners were  comfortably inside sipping warm adult beverages .
They were  all transplanted northerners  ;)saying "2 inches is no big deal-we can drive in our BMW's and Lincolns".
They call those DAMN Yankess -they come to visit and never leave.

Putting on the green ink rainsuit...

[Mark Bourgeois]

They were  all transplanted northerners  ;)saying "2 inches is no big deal-we can drive in our BMW's and Lincolns".
They call those DAMN Yankess -they come to visit and never leave.

Actually Jeff we call them hemorrhoids. If they come down then go back up they're okay but if they come down and stay they're a pain in the *ss.

Helpfully,