[Patrick_Mucci]

holes at Pebble Beach, so why doesn't it get more architectural recognition on this site ?

If it cost $ 75 a round would be considered the best course in the U.S. ?

Is it the green fee that undermines the architectural merits of the course ?

[John Kavanaugh]

holes at Pebble Beach, so why doesn't it get more architectural recognition on this site ?

If it cost $ 75 a round would be considered the best course in the U.S. ?

Is it the green fee that undermines the architectural merits of the course ?

You payed?

[Richard Hetzel]

….or do the wide open views of Carmel Bay create a false sense of great design whereas the course is really mostly better than average at best? Green fees aside, it just isn't all that high up on my list of places to play. At $75 if would be a steal, at $450 (or whatever it is right now) I am not so sure.

[Patrick_Mucci]

holes at Pebble Beach, so why doesn't it get more architectural recognition on this site ?

If it cost $ 75 a round would be considered the best course in the U.S. ?

Is it the green fee that undermines the architectural merits of the course ?

You payed?

Through the nose..

But, it's a really great golf course

[Patrick_Mucci]

….or do the wide open views of Carmel Bay create a false sense of great design whereas the course is really mostly better than average at best?
Richard,

You must be kidding.

The course is spectacular, architecturally and a joy to play

Green fees aside, it just isn't all that high up on my list of places to play.
At $75 if would be a steal, at $450 (or whatever it is right now) I am not so sure.


Green fees aside, it's spectacular, a course I would play every day

[Richard Hetzel]

Better than say Seminole? I am sure it is great, and someday I will pony up the $$$ to play it, but I have others I am chasing first.

[BHoover]

I have no doubt that Pebble is a wonderful course, but the fact that the green fee is so damn expensive makes it rather unaccessible. Even many private clubs are more accessible than Pebble simply as a result of the green fee.

Due to the cost, I would prefer to play 5-6 courses than fork over the $$ just to see Pebble. If money weren't an issue, I'd happily play Pebble.

[John Kavanaugh]

I lost all respect for Pebble when I found out that they were back door comping raters. It can't be that great if they bribe panelists given its history and location.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Better than say Seminole? I am sure it is great, and someday I will pony up the $$$ to play it, but I have others I am chasing first.

While I might prefer Seminole as a steady diet, objectively, Pebble Beach is architecturally superior in that the challenge it provides to the broad spectrum of golfers is unique.

[Keith Grande]

I think perhaps the price can be a turnoff to many, Pebble has been charging a very high fee for many years now, well above what other top courses had typically charged.

Holes 6,7,8,9,10, and 17 &18 are the standouts to me.  Besides being iconic and challenging, they are very fun holes to play.  The first few holes and the back nine stretch from 11-16 are weak spots.

So, while there are world class holes, I would say that there are many holes that are underwhelming.

[John Kavanaugh]

Patrick,

Would you play Pebble everyday under its current conditioning problems, pace of play and golfing tourist access?

[Greg Chambers]

Patrick,

Do you think the reason Pebble provides a challenge across a broad spectrum is because the greens are so small?  Would it be a different story if the putting surfaces were larger?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think perhaps the price can be a turnoff to many, Pebble has been charging a very high fee for many years now, well above what other top courses had typically charged.

Holes 6,7,8,9,10, and 17 &18 are the standouts to me.  Besides being iconic and challenging, they are very fun holes to play.  The first few holes and the back nine stretch from 11-16 are weak spots.

Keith,

2, 3, 4 and 5 are "weak" ?  ?  ?

11-16 are "weak" ?  ?  ?

By what measure ?

So, while there are world class holes, I would say that there are many holes that are underwhelming.


Which holes are "underwhelming" and how are the "underwhelming" ?

How many times have you played Pebble Beach ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think perhaps the price can be a turnoff to many, Pebble has been charging a very high fee for many years now, well above what other top courses had typically charged.

Holes 6,7,8,9,10, and 17 &18 are the standouts to me.  Besides being iconic and challenging, they are very fun holes to play.  The first few holes and the back nine stretch from 11-16 are weak spots.

Keith,

2, 3, 4 and 5 are "weak" ?  ?  ?

11-16 are "weak" ?  ?  ?

By what measure ?

So, while there are world class holes, I would say that there are many holes that are underwhelming.


Which holes are "underwhelming" and how are the "underwhelming" ?

How many times have you played Pebble Beach ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

Would you play Pebble everyday under its current conditioning problems, pace of play and golfing tourist access?[color=green

JakaB,

Why not ask me if I would play NGLA everyday on days they have special charity outings.

When I played it over several consecutive days days I had the first and last tee off times of the day and loved it][/color]

[BCowan]

''If it cost $ 75 a round would be considered the best course in the U.S. ?''

   Best course in U.S. (SFGC, CP, and Pasatiempo) are higher on my wish list then Pebble.

   Just going by photos and TV i think I prefer Pebble the original design much more.  The modern greens complex's look too small for the seaside holes.  The 6th has a blind 2nd shot with water to the right.  I usually love blind shots, but with water much less.  The fairway for the 14th hole the par 5, doesn't seem to give a good angle into the funky green that doesn't reward a great 3rd shot.  The 17th green complex now a days looks ridiculous did anyone hit in reg last open?  The 5th green looks way too small too imo.  2, 7, and 8 look real good.  I am sure I am missing many other great holes.  This is just a non seen in person view so feel free to discard.  I feel some green ink in the future....  It looks like a great track, but best in the US seems a little too much.

[Bill_McBride]

After playing Pebble several times as a kid, I last played there in 1978 when the green fee was $65 and I carried my clubs. 

I'm really not interested in playing there again, with the astronomical green fees and continuous cart paths with curbs.  The great memories are sufficient. 

[Nigel Islam]

Pebble is just a special course and a special place. Would you rather play Pebble at $475 or Whistling Straits at $360? The price tag while astronomical is not terribly out of proportion to other public access courses. I get a rush just walking around the grounds.

[John Cowden]

Perhaps the most overrated course in the country.  But  a half dozen+.holes make it  special, architecturally.   And history and tradition do the rest.  But it's only the second or third or fourth best course within 50 miles.  All of which means it's still extraordinary, over-priced, too.

[Patrick_Mucci]

After playing Pebble several times as a kid, I last played there in 1978 when the green fee was $65 and I carried my clubs. 

I'm really not interested in playing there again, with the astronomical green fees and continuous cart paths with curbs. 

Bill,

You can walk the course with a caddy.

The continous cart paths are due to two fellows being killed when they drove over the cliff on # 8 on a foggy day.


The great memories are sufficient. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Perhaps the most overrated course in the country.

How so ?

What courses do you consider significantly better ?  

But  a half dozen+.holes make it  special, architecturally.  

What holes are architecturally lacking and how are they architecturally lacking ?

How many times have you played Pebble Beach and when was the last time ?

And history and tradition do the rest.  
But it's only the second or third or fourth best course within 50 miles.  

CPC and MPCC are terrific courses.
Which three courses with 50 miles are better ?

All of which means it's still extraordinary, over-priced, too.

If it was overpriced, no one would play it, yet, it's packed.  Why do you suppose that is ?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Also worthy of discussion is the impact of the Palmer Design changes for the last Open.  Given how bland and poorly conditioned many of the bunkers at PB were, I actually thought it was overall an improvement, even though I generally hate to see old courses changed a lot.  If you did it at CP (which they did, but tried to emulate the original style) it would be reviled, but here, I haven't heard much discussion.  Not to mention JN taking away the old dogleg par 3 fifth......

Is that a sign that the actual architecture of PB wasn't all that revered here, and elsewhere?

In general, I agree with the ocean holes great, inland holes average POV, however, I always liked 2 for some reason.

[David_Tepper]

If this discussion is about Pebble Beach's design/architecture, how is the green fee in any way relevant? 

[Josh Tarble]

1)  I can't wait to play Pebble Beach.  In my opinion it's one of the seminal events in a golfers life.  That includes the entire experience, even the ridiculous green fee.  I can't wait to play it and pay for it so I can know if it was worth it. 

2)  To me, it seems Pebble is the poster child for a course's highs outweighing it's lows. Are the good holes THAT good that you can overlook the somewhat average ones. 

[Mike Hendren]

Best $365 I've spent.  My opinions:

If Cypress Point was public and Pebble Beach was private the latter would out-rank the former.

The pacing of the holes at Pebble Beach is as good as any course I've played.

Recently added fairway bunkering is subtraction by addition.  Leave it alone.

The 2nd, 8th, 9th, 15th and 17th are very good half-par holes.

The approach to the 9th is among the most daunting in the game.

Why lament pace of play when you're in one of the most beautiful spots in the country?

The 17th is the best example of championship quirk in the U. S.  While generally derided, I absolutely love this hole.

Only one indifferent hole - the 15th.  

Among the courses I've played or walked, in my opinion it is in the same league as Shinnecock Hills, Merion, Augusta National, Cypress Point, Crystal Downs,  National Golf Links and Sand Hills.

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