Scottish Independence

[James Brown]

What will be the implications for golf if the Scots vote to break away in September

British Open Championship rotation?

Land use restrictions in Scotland?

More or less course development?

[Bill_McBride]

What will be the implications for golf if the Scots vote to break away in September

British Open Championship rotation?

Land use restrictions in Scotland?

More or less course development?

More kilts, haggis and single malts!

[Jon Wiggett]

James,

Scotland will still be part of Britain but not part of the UK in the unlikely event of a yes vote so it will not effect sporting events. I do not know about land restrictions but as Scotland has a significantly lower population density then it would be plausible that restrictions on land use would be eased.

More or less development? It will probably stay the same.

The danger of a yes vote for the 'yes' campaign is you will just turn Holyrood into the new London. Vote yes for an independent Highlands will soon be the cry

Of course the number of tourist coming from the south might very well collapse which would be a disaster.
 

Jon

[Niall C]

James

It's not the British Open, it's the Open Championship as I'm sure you know. That might not seem an important distinction however without the "British" tag it means there are no boundary restrictions inherent in the title of the championship. In practice, and historically it is played on links courses within the British isles so in the unlikely event of Scottish independance, there should be no difference in the way it is run.

With regards your second question regarding land use and golf course development, property development and land use has always been dealt with within a Scottish central and local goverment planning framework therefore in theory there should be no change. Assuming that Scotland votes yes (in my view unlikely given the polls) and that the SNP stay in power post independence (possibly a bit more likely) then they may bring forward legislation that makes life more difficult for single sex clubs, and some of the contents of the land reform legislation that they are bringing through at the moment may not be conducive to large scale investment (such as golf developments) in rural areas. That's just my interpretation and I might add fairly speculative.

Niall

[Jud_T]

Current odds are 3-1 against.

[Brian_Ewen]

if Scotland votes Yes the rules of golf will be suspended in England as only national bodies can affiliate to the Royal & Ancient.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/andrew-wilson-we-all-want-currency-union-to-work-1-3290217

[Rich Goodale]

Scotland should be an independent country because it is a very different place, with a very different history and with a very different culture and society than the other nations of the United Kingdom (England, Wales and Northern Ireland).

Whether or not independence is achieved, it will have virtually no effect on the game of golf.

[Ed Brzezowski]

The question was a large issue with the caddies we had last year, the older guys were against it and the younger ones for it. Very heated discussions ensued but in some foreign language.
is it true they lowered the voting age for this vote? We were told 15 year olds were allowed to vote? Seems a streach.

[Mark Chaplin]

I'd be interested to know the national breakdown on R&A membership.

I don't know any educated, working Scots who support independence from the union.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ed,

yes the voting age just for the referendum has been lowered to 16 meaning that some that are 15 at the moment but who will be 16 at the time of the vote will be able to vote. Funnily enough, all the polls show that the younger voters are even more against independence than older generations.

Rich,

I guess you believe the US should be split up as well. North/south, east/west take your pick the diversity and differences are just as marked if not more so

Mark,

I do not know any either and I am surrounded by them. If you ask about devolution max then it is pretty much 100% yes but few seem to want to be independent.

Jon

Jon

[Mark Pearce]

Scotland should be an independent country because it is a very different place, with a very different history and with a very different culture and society than the other nations of the United Kingdom (England, Wales and Northern Ireland).

There is no city in the UK closer in culture to London than Edinburgh.  I wonder what the people of Cornwall, Cumbria or Northumberland might make of your statement.

[Rich Goodale]

I'd be interested to know the national breakdown on R&A membership.

I don't know any educated, working Scots who support independence from the union.

Mark

Next time you come to Scotland, let me know and I'll introduce you to my wife....

Rich

[Mark Chaplin]

In 2012/13, public spending per head in the UK as a whole was £8,788. In England, it was £8,529 (3% below the UK average). This compares with:
• Scotland: £10,152 (16% above the UK average)
• Wales: £9,709 (10% above the UK average)
• Northern Ireland £10,876 (24% above the UK average).
Among the English regions, public spending per head was lowest in the South East at £7,638 (13% below the UK average) and highest in London at £9,435 (7% higher than the UK average).

Coming from the South East maybe we have the most to gain from our own independence!

[Jon Wiggett]

I'd be interested to know the national breakdown on R&A membership.

I don't know any educated, working Scots who support independence from the union.

Mark

Next time you come to Scotland, let me know and I'll introduce you to my wife....

Rich

and she will explain why the USA should be split up?



Jon

[Mike Sweeney]

I'd be interested to know the national breakdown on R&A membership.

I don't know any educated, working Scots who support independence from the union.

Mark

Next time you come to Scotland, let me know and I'll introduce you to my wife....

Rich

and she will explain why the USA should be split up?



Jon

Jon,

It is just talk, but some in California have started a "6 State" breakup of California conversation:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/21/business/la-fi-tn-silicon-valley-tim-draper-split-california-20131221

But at the end of the day, this is being done to get MORE representation in Washington DC at the Federal level, so it is different from the Scottish Independence movement, which is a break away movement from London, I think. On a snowy weekend in Connecticut, I have been on a House of Cards run with Kevin Spacey and the beautiful Robin Wright on Netflix. One thing for sure, next time that South Carolinian Mike Whitaker comes to NYC, I am not going to be buying into all that good guy routine

On a serious note, I would like to see more control of my tax dollars at a local level. I have a son that will soon benefit from the USA machine and attend the United States Naval Academy and I have an Autistic son that has been ignored by the federal government. (See my friend Tim's essay - http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/02/tanners-dad-a-failed-experiment.html#comments ). I would rather pay some for the USNA and see Dustin (and all his buddies), not be ignored by Washington DC.

[BCowan]

Jon

Philly had 30,000 people when the Constitution was signed.  ''There is a certain size in which things function properly, when it gets out of that size there is dysfunction.''  Healthy cells grow and when they reach a certain size they divide to stay healthy, if they don't divide they grow and metastasize and form a cancer".   The US definitely needs to break up you have 780,000 people per US rep.  You aren't going to get any honest person winning.  It is suppose to be 30,000 per US rep which would give 10,000 US rep (''horse, pimps, and thieves'') in DC!  Switzerland has 8 million people and 26 sovereign Cantons!  We have many States in the US that are bigger than Switzerland.  I don't know if I would put much stock in Polls. 

Mark

     So if uneducated support Independence, there is something wrong with that? 

[jeffwarne]

I don't know any educated, working Scots who support ........

That didn't stop a recent president from being elected

[Rich Goodale]

Jon

I don't get your point.  There is no significant support for secession from any State that I know of, and as Mike mentioned above, more States within the Union is more likely than any State seceding.  That was tried in 1860, and it wasn't a really good idea....  BTW, do you know which side the Brits were on in our Civil War?  If you need a clue, it was not the Union/anti-Slavery side.

Rich

[Niall C]

Rich

I think possibly the point Jon was looking to make was that different parts of the US likely have a unique and identifiable culture (not sure how you would define that) and therefore if that was the defining criteria for why a certain geographical area should be independent then your wife would presumably be in favour of a break up of the US.

Personally I'm not against independence in principle and even his opponents would concede that Salmond is the most charismatic and accomplished politician that we have, however what he's trying to peddle is nonsense. A shared currency with a foreign bank as bank of last resort ?! Now even if rUK was to sign up for that nonsense, how is that going to give us independence in monetary affairs ? There is so much that he's promising that is pie in the sky and potentially undeliverable that really what he's selling is a pig in a poke backed up by some nationalistic rabble rousing. If he's going to get my vote come September then he's going to have to come up with a lot of answers.

Niall

[David_Tepper]

Lengthy article on the subject in last week's Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21595429-battle-scotland-will-be-decided-group-people-who-rarely-get-change

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon

I don't get your point.

It was not my point Rich it was yours.

Jon

There is no significant support for secession from any State that I know of, and as Mike mentioned above, more States within the Union is more likely than any State seceding.  That was tried in 1860, and it wasn't a really good idea....  BTW, do you know which side the Brits were on in our Civil War?  If you need a clue, it was not the Union/anti-Slavery side.

Rich

So you are suggesting that should Scotland go for independence that the rest of the UK should force them back into the union through war. Wow, pretty radical and I doubt there would be much support for your view. No seriously, I know you do not mean that but your example is a pretty poor one.

Ben,

Switzerland may have a population of just 8 million of which almost 23% are not Swiss nationals but that is not where the biggest difference lies. Power politically in Switzerland is at a local level and not at a national level. If the locals are against something then it does not happen. Even on a national level it is the individual that decides not the government. When things such as health reforms come up it is the people that vote on it not the politicians. That way you do not get petty party politics. The people say what is going to happen and the politicians just have to lump it.

I do not know a lot about politics in the US but it seems to me that like in the UK the system is set up to bounce ideas around for so long that nothing can really change too quickly unless through an outside influence. Status Quo


Jon

 

[BCowan]

Jon

   You are spot on!  Our gov't used to operate like Switzerland!  We went from a Union where states/local gov't had power to Nationalism (Dishonest Abe)!  We don't have Decentralization and gov't closest to us anymore!  It is sad that the Scottish independence people don't want their own currency and or letting the market choose or have multiple like Chile does i have been told!  We agree completely Jon!

[Rich Goodale]

It was not my point Rich it was yours.

Jon

There is no significant support for secession from any State that I know of, and as Mike mentioned above, more States within the Union is more likely than any State seceding.  That was tried in 1860, and it wasn't a really good idea....  BTW, do you know which side the Brits were on in our Civil War?  If you need a clue, it was not the Union/anti-Slavery side.

Rich

So you are suggesting that should Scotland go for independence that the rest of the UK should force them back into the union through war. Wow, pretty radical and I doubt there would be much support for your view. No seriously, I know you do not mean that but your example is a pretty poor one.

That is not what I suggested, Jon.  That is not what I meant at all.... (pace TS Eliot)

Rich

[Jon Wiggett]

I know that Rich though I had to read your answer three times before I realised you retyped my post. Very confusing

Jon

[Rich Goodale]

Sorry Jon

I was trying to minimize the text quoted to the relevant bits and forgot to keep the end quotes.  My bad.

Rich