Designing bunkers to

[Anthony_Nysse]

Thank you Anthony, you have varified my thoughts, and you can´t design for a bunker for a rain like that and still include all the elements that go into a wide variety of well designed bunkers for a golf course! Wish I was there and could give you a helping hand to get it all put back together. Have any members volunteered to come out and help?

We have not had any members come out to help, but I would not expect them too. There is a lot of liability associated with that. We get check, they get bills, so I work for them!
  We did have a few Superintendents come out yesterday morning to lend a hand with bunkers. Very unexpected, but greatly appreciated.  

[BCowan]

Randy and Anthony

   I wish there were more member volunteer groups, but it seems as though it is a thing of the past with frivolous lawsuits in the states.  Randy you have them in S America?  Grant tells me they have them in NZ...

[David_Elvins]

Links courses in Britain have plenty of bunkers, which one/s were you referencing ?

The greens at 1, 2, 17 and 18 at the old course share 1 bunker between them.  Great green complexes that could easily have their concepts copied more than they do.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Links courses in Britain have plenty of bunkers, which one/s were you referencing ?

The greens at 1, 2, 17 and 18 at the old course share 1 bunker between them.  Great green complexes that could easily have their concepts copied more than they do.  

David,

That's it, one course in all of the U.K..

And only 4 greens ?

The first green has a creek fronting the entire green,

The 17th and 18th greens have Out of Bounds right next to them and in play, and # 17 has a road and a wall that act as hazards.

I'm surprised that you didn't pick a bunkerless green with a machine gun nest protecting it.

[Thomas Dai]

Amazing how the world has evolved in such a way that there are now liability issues with volunteer helpers. Wish Anthony and his maintenance team every success in rectifying the damage caused by mother nature. Must be horrid to bust a gut to have your course in tip-top condition and then mother nature comes along and kicks you in the nuts.
atb

[Patrick_Mucci]

Thomas, BCowan, Randy,

Members volunteering is a bad idea.

First, they don't know what they're doing and they have no prior experience.

And, someone has to supervise them to the exclusion of supervising others.

There's no shortage of members at Pine Tree who would gladly help, but in doing so they would be depriving the green staff employees of their paychecks.

Think before you type

[Anthony_Nysse]

Thomas, BCowan, Randy,

Members volunteering is a bad idea.

First, they don't know what they're doing and they have no prior experience.

And, someone has to supervise them to the exclusion of supervising others.

There's no shortage of members at Pine Tree who would gladly help, but in doing so they would be depriving the green staff employees of their paychecks.

Think before you type

Haha! Well put!

[Randy Thompson]

Thomas, BCowan, Randy,

Members volunteering is a bad idea.

First, they don't know what they're doing and they have no prior experience.

And, someone has to supervise them to the exclusion of supervising others.

There's no shortage of members at Pine Tree who would gladly help, but in doing so they would be depriving the green staff employees of their paychecks.

Think before you type

Haha! Well put!

Patrick,
Before the liability issue came to be an issue many clubs had volunteers followig natural disasters and with successful results. It´s not rocket science scraping off the fines that remain on top of the sand in order not to further contaminate the sand, or using a shovel to throw sand back up on a slope or pickig up branches after a tornado and putting them in a tráiler, pumping out wáter of a bunker. There is a lot of work that can be done by Morons if you break up your experienced crew and mix them with members, at least the first couple of days followig a natural disaster. Its all about taking pride in your home course and helpig put humpty dumpty back together again as quick as posible for the enjoyment of all.

[Thomas Dai]

Thomas, BCowan, Randy,
Members volunteering is a bad idea.
First, they don't know what they're doing and they have no prior experience.
And, someone has to supervise them to the exclusion of supervising others.
There's no shortage of members at Pine Tree who would gladly help, but in doing so they would be depriving the green staff employees of their paychecks.
Think before you type

Haha! Well put!

Patrick,
Before the liability issue came to be an issue many clubs had volunteers followig natural disasters and with successful results. It´s not rocket science scraping off the fines that remain on top of the sand in order not to further contaminate the sand, or using a shovel to throw sand back up on a slope or pickig up branches after a tornado and putting them in a tráiler, pumping out wáter of a bunker. There is a lot of work that can be done by Morons if you break up your experienced crew and mix them with members, at least the first couple of days followig a natural disaster. Its all about taking pride in your home course and helpig put humpty dumpty back together again as quick as posible for the enjoyment of all.

In the UK some clubs have what are called 'Artisan' sections. In return for paying lower subs the Artisans help with the upkeep of the course. One of the main areas that Artisans help upkeep is the bunkers.
atb

[BCowan]

Randy and Thomas

    Thank you for your responses.  I love how people spin the narrative to suit their outlook.  My grandpa put in drainage at his home course on a certain section of the course, it isn't rocket science and i am sure he was supervised by a keeper.  What a terrible idea for members who love their course to help out in getting it back to order.  Having assessments seems to be the modern day outlook.  Fixing bunkers by members seems like a great idea Thomas.  

Mr Mucci-- None of us said that club employees weren't going to be working, which is an example of Spinning it.  I would like photos of the last 5 winters in S Florida of bunkers where they received 14''+ inches of rain, as it is the norm you indicate.  I ask you to think before you type, there are many golf courses in the ''fly over areas'' of the USA.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Thomas, BCowan, Randy,

Members volunteering is a bad idea.

First, they don't know what they're doing and they have no prior experience.

And, someone has to supervise them to the exclusion of supervising others.

There's no shortage of members at Pine Tree who would gladly help, but in doing so they would be depriving the green staff employees of their paychecks.

Think before you type

Haha! Well put!

Patrick,

Before the liability issue came to be an issue many clubs had volunteers followig natural disasters and with successful results.

This was NOT a natural disaster, it was just another, very heavy, localized rain storm

It´s not rocket science scraping off the fines that remain on top of the sand in order not to further contaminate the sand, or using a shovel to throw sand back up on a slope or pickig up branches after a tornado and putting them in a tráiler, pumping out wáter of a bunker.
NO tornados were involved, just localized rain.
And the man hours performed by the volunteers represents paychecks that the hourly staff will not be paid

There is a lot of work that can be done by Morons if you break up your experienced crew and mix them with members, at least the first couple of days followig a natural disaster.

NO natural disaster occurred.
Why do you keep mentioning natural disasters.
When natural disasters occur, the National Guard restricts movement of the citizens to the affected area.
So your example is about as bogus as you can get.
Here's what happens in natural disasters.

National Guard:  Can I see your ID
Citizen:               Here it is.
National Guard:  Where are you going ?
Citizen:               I'm going to volunteer to help the maintenance crew at my golf course.
National Guard:  Turn your car around at the cones and have a nice day

 Its all about taking pride in your home course and helpig put humpty dumpty back together again as quick as posible for the enjoyment of all.
That sounds nice in theory, but it doesn't work that way in reality.[/color]

[Patrick_Mucci]

Randy and Thomas

    Thank you for your responses.  I love how people spin the narrative to suit their outlook.  My grandpa put in drainage at his home course on a certain section of the course, it isn't rocket science and i am sure he was supervised by a keeper.  What a terrible idea for members who love their course to help out in getting it back to order.  Having assessments seems to be the modern day outlook.  Fixing bunkers by members seems like a great idea Thomas.  

BCowan,

This is about the most moronic idea as has ever been put forth on GCA.com.

"Think" about this.

A moronic, volunteering, member does everything wrong and is admonished for same throughout the day, but he keeps screwing up and is continually being admonished.

When everybody goes home, who is the employer and who is the employee ?

As the Superintendent do you really want to make an enemy out of one of your bosses/employers ?

THINK before you type.

Mr Mucci-- None of us said that club employees weren't going to be working, which is an example of Spinning it.

NO, it's a case of YOU not understanding the issue.

If a project will require 200 man hours of labor, and volunteering members take care of 100 man hours of labor, the paid hourly mployees will be shorted by 100 hours.  That's 100 hours where the hourly staff won't be paid.
NOW, do you understand how the employees will suffer with smaller paychecks ?

I would like photos of the last 5 winters in S Florida of bunkers where they received 14''+ inches of rain, as it is the norm you indicate.
That's a total fabrication on YOUR part.
I never indicated that 14+ inches of rain was the norm.
But, in addition to this recent downpour, it rained over X-Mas/New Year vacation and over Thanksgiving as well.

Rain in South Florida, close to the Ocean, is very localized.
It can pour on one course and not rain on a course a mile away

I ask you to think before you type, there are many golf courses in the ''fly over areas'' of the USA.  

We're not discussing other areas of Florida, we're focused on Boynton Beach, Florida, and
I'm exponentially more familiar with the weather and rain in the Boynton Beach area of Florida than you are

[BCowan]

Randy and Thomas

    Thank you for your responses.  I love how people spin the narrative to suit their outlook.  My grandpa put in drainage at his home course on a certain section of the course, it isn't rocket science and i am sure he was supervised by a keeper.  What a terrible idea for members who love their course to help out in getting it back to order.  Having assessments seems to be the modern day outlook.  Fixing bunkers by members seems like a great idea Thomas.  

BCowan,

This is about the most moronic idea as has ever been put forth on GCA.com.I know the idea of people helping out getting their course back to order after 14inches+ of rain in 24hrs, how moronic of them, lol!  I bet the sight of members getting their hands dirty is a horrible thing in your eyes.

"Think" about this.

A moronic, volunteering, member does everything wrong and is admonished for same throughout the day, but he keeps screwing up and is continually being admonished.  Tunnel vision is a terrible thing to have

When everybody goes home, who is the employer and who is the employee ?Obviously this isn't for every club, not every club has egotistical members that will start telling a keeper how to keep!  As i have seen a grounds chairman and an assoc. Architect almost go to blows over a arch disagreement at a top club during a renovation, I do not see that behavior as the norm in most private clubs!

As the Superintendent do you really want to make an enemy out of one of your bosses/employers ?It used not to be a problem, people had humility back in the day!

THINK before you type.Same to you sir!

Mr Mucci-- None of us said that club employees weren't going to be working, which is an example of Spinning it.

NO, it's a case of YOU not understanding the issue.Oh i am, have you worked Golf course maint or on a golf course renovation?

If a project will require 200 man hours of labor, and volunteering members take care of 100 man hours of labor, the paid hourly mployees will be shorted by 100 hours.  That's 100 hours where the hourly staff won't be paid.
NOW, do you understand how the employees will suffer with smaller paychecks ?A keepers staff has everyday stuff assigned to them, pumping water and fixing traps in an effort to get the course back in normal maint. condition would greatly increase their work load!

I would like photos of the last 5 winters in S Florida of bunkers where they received 14''+ inches of rain, as it is the norm you indicate.
That's a total fabrication on YOUR part.No it is not, you take certain abnormal rain and make it as a typical event in S Florida!
I never indicated that 14+ inches of rain was the norm.You implied as Randy and Anthony commented on it.
But, in addition to this recent downpour, it rained over X-Mas/New Year vacation and over Thanksgiving as well.

Rain in South Florida, close to the Ocean, is very localized.I know
It can pour on one course and not rain on a course a mile awayI know

I ask you to think before you type, there are many golf courses in the ''fly over areas'' of the USA.  

We're not discussing other areas of Florida, we're focused on Boynton Beach, Florida, and
I'm exponentially more familiar with the weather and rain in the Boynton Beach area of Florida than you are

Maybe