Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?

[Dan Moore]

Thats actually the December interview.  The ridges sound quite dramatic.  

[William_G]

thank you Howard, love how DMK said essentially " this big ridge, which a golfer could understand, the golf would then be the excuse to explore it"

[Howard Riefs]

Thats actually the December interview.  The ridges sound quite dramatic.  

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't realize that they re-ran the same segment.

[Dan Moore]

Actually yesterday was new.  At the end of yesterday's segment Ginella said he was going to tweet a link to the December Sand Valley segment so I'm assuming that what they have available online. 

[DJohnson]

New pictures


Sand Valley Golf Resort
The approach at the short par-4 #9 (for those who don't go for it off the tee). Photo taken by our talented shaper, Ryan Farrow


Grass is growing nicely on #8 (a short but demanding Par 3) at Sand Valley!

[Joel_Stewart]

On the bottom 2 photos the bunkers on the front left look really deep. 

[Joel_Stewart]

You can follow San Valley on Facebook.


https://www.facebook.com/sandvalleygolfresort?fref=photo&sk=photos

[Phil McDade]

Update from the Milwaukee paper, including a video interview with Bill Coore:


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/a-treasure-in-the-sand-b99563927z1-322902711.html

[Carl Nichols]

Earlier in this thread, someone opined that it was better from a financial perspective that these courses will have a relatively short playing season, as they won't have (significant) costs during the non-playing months.  I've never worked in the golf business, but that doesn't seem right to me--seems like you'd rather be open as many months as possible, unless you're losing money by being open vs. being closed, of course.  Am I missing something?       

[BHoover]

What's the business model here -- will Sand Valley be a public destination-type venue (as I thought) or private (as a friend has suggested)?

[Phil McDade]

What's the business model here -- will Sand Valley be a public destination-type venue (as I thought) or private (as a friend has suggested)?

Brian:


Everything I've read and heard says the former -- similar to Bandon, a public destination course with on-site housing/dining. It'd better be (re. the housing/dining); there is literally nothing else in that part of the state in Adams County. Whether the "founders" who provided the first dose of money for the place get some preferred times or preferences, I'm not sure.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Funny .. I was talking with someone from Wisconsin yesterday who's familiar with the state but isn't much of a golfer. I asked him if he'd heard about the new development near Rome, and he responded: "Yeah, but I don't know what they're going to do over there. All there is sand and dunes in that part of the state."

[Peter Pallotta]

I missed this earlier this month. Thanks DJohnson for those photos of what looks to be a lovely course; and, indeed, while it's not worth much coming from me, Ryan F has done some excellent shaping work there.


Peter

[Ryan Farrow]

Peter, I wish I could take credit for the shaping out here but my input has been minimal compared to the likes of Jim Craig, who is  leading the charge out here along with Dave Axland and Rod Whitman. Zach Varty & Tony Russell have done the bulk of the bunker shaping.


This is pretty much the first time I sat in a piece of heavy machinery since interning for Tom Doak at Rock Creek. I feel pretty lucky to be surrounded by such a talented team, and some pretty stellar ownership!


Here are some updated pictures from a few weeks ago of the 1st and 9th holes.

[Howard Riefs]

Via Matt Ginella on Twitter...

"In addition to Dornoch (see @golfadvisor.com), Mike Keiser confirmed Gil Hanse moves to the front of the line for 3rd course at Sand Valley."

"... if and when there's a third, and having lost out on Bandon Muni, Keiser will go with Hanse."

"Keiser hired Gil Hanse 7 years ago, but Bandon Muni never became a reality. Hanse, & the idea of a Jr. caddie program, shift to Sand Valley."

https://twitter.com/MattGinellaGC/status/660210903183433728


https://twitter.com/MattGinellaGC/status/660212869368299524

[William_G]

thanks Howard

the government folks in Oregon don't know what they missed out on

[BHoover]

One of the replies to Matt Ginella's post was this question--will Keiser give Tiger a chance to design an 18 at Sand Valley?

[Kalen Braley]

thanks Howard

the government folks in Oregon don't know what they missed out on

How do you figure?  They already got 4.5 world class courses in their backyard.  I'm pretty sure they knew what they were dealing with.

[PCCraig]

I understand that MK probably feels like he owes Hanse a shot. That being said, I really wish that he would give Tom Doak either the 3rd or 4th course at Sand Valley.

[William_G]

thanks Howard

the government folks in Oregon don't know what they missed out on

How do you figure?  They already got 4.5 world class courses in their backyard.  I'm pretty sure they knew what they were dealing with.

yes, they have the best golf resort in the world golf in spite of themselves, and thanks to Howard McKee

the South Coast needs all the economy it can get despite those that are anti-capitalism or blind enviromentalists

many who opposed the deal, were in opposition regardless of the Resort or any merits of the project, let alone never visiting the site....oppose to oppose...that is ignorance

 

[Jim Nugent]

thanks Howard

the government folks in Oregon don't know what they missed out on

How do you figure?  They already got 4.5 world class courses in their backyard.  I'm pretty sure they knew what they were dealing with.

yes, they have the best golf resort in the world golf in spite of themselves, and thanks to Howard McKee

the South Coast needs all the economy it can get despite those that are anti-capitalism or blind enviromentalists

many who opposed the deal, were in opposition regardless of the Resort or any merits of the project, let alone never visiting the site....oppose to oppose...that is ignorance

 

William, how much time did Keiser spend trying to get that project moving?  Five years?  More? 

[K Rafkin]

Initially it was reported that Doak and Whitman had picked sites that didn't overlap with any of the other proposed routings allowing for the possibility of 4 courses where the architect gets their first pick of the land.  Now that its being reported that Gil Hanse will the the third course, Im starting to wonder about if how this will affect the other two architects routings assuming there is a 4th and possibly 5th course. 


Could the Hanse course occupy land chosen by both the Mr. Doak and Mr. Whitman? 


The pictures are making this place look really special, but I'm wondering if Sand Valley can sustain 4 or 5 courses.  Im not questioning the economics of this project I'm just wondering if there is enough variety from site to site to make each course stand out to Mr. Keiser's "retail golfer".

[Jason Way]

Im not questioning the economics of this project I'm just wondering if there is enough variety from site to site to make each course stand out to Mr. Keiser's "retail golfer".

I haven't seen as much of the property as some here, but based on what I have seen, I would make two comments in answer to your question:


1.  Although the property has an overall look and feel, there are some landforms that can give each course distinction depending on the routings they ultimately choose.


2.  At Bandon, there isn't that much of a difference in the land on which Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, and Old MacDonald sit.  They each have their own look and feel, however, because of the styles that the GCAs applied to them.  The same is also true at Streamsong.


No reason to think that, based on #1 and #2 above, there won't be plenty of variety from course to course at Sand Valley.

[PCCraig]

I just heard from someone who just visited, and played, that the "plan" now is for four courses and a par-3 course a la Bandon.

[Dan Moore]

There is a lot of variety between different parts of the 1,500 acre property that was initially purchased.  As initially conceived, Course 2 by David McLay Kidd will utilize a v-shaped sand dune that is 80 feet high and a couple hundred yards long on each side. The course starts within the V then loops around the back of one side, and then the back nine loops around other side of the dune before climbing up and over and finishing back inside the bowl of the v-shaped dunes.  Its quite dramatic and very different than the broad, wider open Sunningdale like areas selected by Coore Crenshaw. Other parts of the property offer more abrupt elevation changes than those two areas. I doubt there will much of an issue with various architects delivering substantially different and unique courses.  More significantly the land is like nothing else I've seen in the Upper Midwest. I suspect the third architect will get a free hand to select whatever land they want for the next course.     


edit: after seeing Kidd during architecture week 12.10.15 on tv it's clear his routing has changed significantly and now starts at the west end of the V instead of the east end as was the case initially.