Course Length

[Bob_Garvelink]

Why do so many golfers choose the wrong set of tees to play?  Is it a macho thing?  I'm a 15 handicap and I prefer to play under 6300 yds with an ideal course for me being around 6000 yds.  Choosing the wrong set of tees can really slow a course down and although equipment is better today, Most golfers need to be playing around 6000 yards to keep the game enjoyable and to keep their group from not slowing down the course. Although most guys/ gals on this site can easily handle to play around 6500 - 7000 yds its not the norm.  

Does anybody else see this as a big problem in the game today?  I

[BCowan]

depends on the person.  My ole man can play any track in 3.5 hours and shoot 90-100 from any tee box.  People taking too much time on the greens and not playing ready golf is more of the problem.  

[Keith Grande]

In my experience, those who play from a set of tees that they shouldn't based on their distances, it comes down to ego.  I often play with a friend who is 68 years old, doesn't hit the ball very far, but refuses to play from the red tees because he deems it "Ladies Tees".  We use the term "Seniors", but that doesn't change his opinion.  

A good rule of thumb as to which tees to play from would be to calculate how far you hit your 5 iron, and multiply that by 36 (shots in regulation par 72).  So for example, 180 x 36 = 6,480 yds

As far as pace of play, I'm not sure, but it would lead to more enjoyment, hitting more greens.  At my local muni, a 6,200 yard par 72 could average over 5 1/2 hours in peak season.  Last weekend, on a rather cold (42 deg) but sunny Sunday at mid-morning, my foursome arrived at the first tee, which was backed up with groups waiting to get out.  We played in 4 hours and 10 minutes on a crowded course.  I'm sure most of the golfers were avid golfers, and thus play ready golf, but I'm sure the colder weather had something to do with pace of play.  Play ready golf, spend less times reading putts from every angle, etc.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Here in England generally the white tees are reserved for competitions so the only choice available is to play off the yellow mens' tees or the red ladies' tees.

I'm not about to start playing off the ladies' tees!

I agree with you however, that the ideal course length is around 6000 yards. That is also probably about the average length daily course over here.

[Jason Topp]

Is this really a problem?  There is a group of guys at the public course I play that shoot 100 and always play from the tips - around 7100 yards.  They play as fast as anyone else and seem to enjoy it.  I am not going to tell them they are playing from the wrong tees.

I also believe that a well designed course should be playable for most from the back tees.  Most groups are going to play from the same tees and therefore it will often be the case that some members are playing from different tees than were envisioned as the course was designed.  

[Adrian_Stiff]

depends on the person.  My ole man can play any track in 3.5 hours and shoot 90-100 from any tee box.  People taking too much time on the greens and not playing ready golf is more of the problem.  

+1 .

[Garland Bayley]

depends on the person.  My ole man can play any track in 3.5 hours and shoot 90-100 from any tee box.  People taking too much time on the greens and not playing ready golf is more of the problem.  

Exactly!

Bob,

Your post makes me think you don't like golf. Real golfers started with featheries and played 3, 4, 5, and 6 shot holes. If all you want to do is putt, there are goofy golf courses for that.

[Garland Bayley]

...
A good rule of thumb as to which tees to play from would be to calculate how far you hit your 5 iron, and multiply that by 36 (shots in regulation par 72).  So for example, 180 x 36 = 6,480 yds
...

Balderdash!

[BCowan]

Here in England generally the white tees are reserved for competitions so the only choice available is to play off the yellow mens' tees or the red ladies' tees.

   Why do they care what tees you play as long as you keep up?  In the US people think walkers are slower and I think the opposite!  Most people don't know how to play cart Golf!  If we only had individual carts to speed things up!  

   Don't they just throw you off the course if you can't keep up across the pond?

It's this ''Play it Forward'', we have to centrally plan where you play from, because you are too stupid to figure that out for yourself mentality!  I'd imagine this will be the next thing we have to regulate by the governing bodies!

[Keith Grande]

...
A good rule of thumb as to which tees to play from would be to calculate how far you hit your 5 iron, and multiply that by 36 (shots in regulation par 72).  So for example, 180 x 36 = 6,480 yds
...

Balderdash!

What course yardage do you comfortably play from?
At what course yardage do you feel  it pushes the upper limits of reaching GIR for your game?

[Lou_Duran]

Is this really a problem?  There is a group of guys at the public course I play that shoot 100 and always play from the tips - around 7100 yards.  They play as fast as anyone else and seem to enjoy it.  I am not going to tell them they are playing from the wrong tees.

I also believe that a well designed course should be playable for most from the back tees.  Most groups are going to play from the same tees and therefore it will often be the case that some members are playing from different tees than were envisioned as the course was designed.  

Wow, Mr. Topp and I are on the same planet for once!  The problem that I often have is playing a short set of tees because my companions who are often younger and drive 20-50+ yards past me want to hit short irons into the par 3s and wedges into the 4s.  Shooting near par at very shorter distances is far less satisfying for me than shooting 80 while hitting all the clubs in my bag.  Even though I've lost 50+ yards off my driver, I'd much rather play a 7200 yard course at sea level than one at 6200.

Mr. G- certainly you jest, a "big problem"?  You must get out more often with the gca.com crowd- 6400 yards is long, and five hours is a fast round.

Mr. Grande- I don't know where you get your RoTs, but if I were to do as you suggest, I'd be playing a 6100 yard golf course, and maybe taking up painting for excitement.  A much better metric for me is the number of greens I can reach in regulation with reasonably well-struck drives, and the variety of the approaches.  Ego?  I am reminded of the several golfers I've known with vanity handicaps who always played the "correct" tees then bitched because I cleaned their clocks in competitions (allegedly, it was "unfair" because my handicap was established from the back tees, which, somehow, put them at a disadvantage).   Bottom line, if you want to be a better golfer, play longer tees.  Look up the literature on goal setting.  And play fast.  

[John McCarthy]

Personally it is not the length but the direction of my golf ball that causes all of my problems.  I can play a 7000 course but I am such a bad golfer all it does it aggravate me.  The 6100-6300 is usually where I want to play.  

[John Kavanaugh]

If you want to see what tees Garland plays from just take a look at where he posts his scores.  He says you can find him on ghin.com.

[Sean_A]

I'd much rather play a 7200 yard course at sea level than one at 6200

Make note to self, if the opportunity should arise, politely decline a game with Sweet Lou  .

I haven't come across many golfers who have any business playing 7200 yard tees regardless of satisfactions levels, pride or ego.

Ciao

[Keith Grande]

Is this really a problem?  There is a group of guys at the public course I play that shoot 100 and always play from the tips - around 7100 yards.  They play as fast as anyone else and seem to enjoy it.  I am not going to tell them they are playing from the wrong tees.

I also believe that a well designed course should be playable for most from the back tees.  Most groups are going to play from the same tees and therefore it will often be the case that some members are playing from different tees than were envisioned as the course was designed.  

Wow, Mr. Topp and I are on the same planet for once!  The problem that I often have is playing a short set of tees because my companions who are often younger and drive 20-50+ yards past me want to hit short irons into the par 3s and wedges into the 4s.  Shooting near par at very shorter distances is far less satisfying for me than shooting 80 while hitting all the clubs in my bag.  Even though I've lost 50+ yards off my driver, I'd much rather play a 7200 yard course at sea level than one at 6200.

Mr. G- certainly you jest, a "big problem"?  You must get out more often with the gca.com crowd- 6400 yards is long, and five hours is a fast round.

Mr. Grande- I don't know where you get your RoTs, but if I were to do as you suggest, I'd be playing a 6100 yard golf course, and maybe taking up painting for excitement.  A much better metric for me is the number of greens I can reach in regulation with reasonably well-struck drives, and the variety of the approaches.  Ego?  I am reminded of the several golfers I've known with vanity handicaps who always played the "correct" tees then bitched because I cleaned their clocks in competitions (allegedly, it was "unfair" because my handicap was established from the back tees, which, somehow, put them at a disadvantage).   Bottom line, if you want to be a better golfer, play longer tees.  Look up the literature on goal setting.  And play fast.  

Lou, you just proved my point - the ROT would equate to your best chance at scoring well.  The fact that you would shoot "80" on a 7,200 yard course, and assuming near par on a 6,200 yard course would be the number of strokes due to yardage increase.  

And if you play a 7,200 yard course, I guarantee you won't be using every club in your bag - woods hybrids and long irons only.

And, if you and your playing partners use the proper course rating and slope for each tee played from, the handicap differential should take that into account.

And...if you hit more greens, I gurantee you'll play faster!

[Lou_Duran]

Personally it is not the length but the direction of my golf ball that causes all of my problems.  I can play a 7000 course but I am such a bad golfer all it does it aggravate me.  The 6100-6300 is usually where I want to play.  

My reading comprehension being what it is, the inference appears to be that you can hit the ball far enough to play a long golf course, but your shot dispersion is such that you want to play something 700-900 yards shorter.  BTW, I see this often, relatively new golfers or some who have taken up the game late in life but still have some athleticism, their best shots are really good but rare, and the bad ones are really bad.  But think about how most golf courses are designed.  The further one moves up on the tee, the smaller the playing corridors become (specially on residential courses and those with tight doglegs).  You have more room for your misses from further back (notwithstanding forced carries), and assuming you are playing golf by the rules, fewer penalty shots, lost balls, etc. = better scoring, and faster play.  

As a senior golfer who normally keeps it between the trees, I trade-off a longer approach for a shorter tee shot that avoids the flanking bunkers on many holes (placed there to capture off-line drives of longer hitters).  I may not hit as many greens with a 3-hybrid than I would with a 6-iron, but I minimize the high scores when the hazards are in play on my drive.  

[BCowan]

And...if you hit more greens, I gurantee you'll play faster!

   I find more people who hit greens in Reg are more prone to take more time reading their putts on the green.  I think that is a blanket assumption, for when i ''kick it around'' i tend to play faster!  Also by him playing a course that is longer, he avoids the designed trouble by not reaching it!  

[Keith Grande]

And...if you hit more greens, I gurantee you'll play faster!

   I find more people who hit greens in Reg are more prone to take more time reading their putts on the green.  I think that is a blanket assumption, for when i ''kick it around'' i tend to play faster!  Also by him playing a course that is longer, he avoids the designed trouble by not reaching it!  

Off the tee perhaps, but now a more difficult shot on the second or third, with greenside trouble perhaps?[/b]

I would generally take more time to read a putt if I missed the green, and now trying to hole a par put.  Likewise, we have two golfers.  One hits the green, marks their ball, reads their putt.  This takes more time than player number two, who still has to take at least one more shot to the green, may be in a bunker, etc. and still may not be on the green?

[Bob_Garvelink]

depends on the person.  My ole man can play any track in 3.5 hours and shoot 90-100 from any tee box.  People taking too much time on the greens and not playing ready golf is more of the problem.  

B,

Your probably right about this.  The more I think about it playing ready golf might be the issue versus playing the wrong set of tees.  To often you have guys looking for lost balls far to long, or simply not being ready to hit.

[Garland Bayley]

...
A good rule of thumb as to which tees to play from would be to calculate how far you hit your 5 iron, and multiply that by 36 (shots in regulation par 72).  So for example, 180 x 36 = 6,480 yds
...

Balderdash!

What course yardage do you comfortably play from?
At what course yardage do you feel  it pushes the upper limits of reaching GIR for your game?

I'm a golfer. As long as there are no forced carries I can't handle, I feel comfortable playing from any length.

GIR has little relevance to golf in this discussion. Actually, perhaps the fewer GIRs the better, as many say people play chip shots faster than putts, so missing greens can actually speed up a round.

But since you asked, as someone carrying over a 20 handicap, 7200 might push the upper limits. When I played the Open preview at 7700 yards there were 3 or 4 par fours I couldn't reach IR. So what? The young man with half the handicap hitting the ball a ton in the wrong direction is what slowed us down there. We nicknamed him sherpa for the day.

[Bob_Garvelink]

Is this really a problem?  There is a group of guys at the public course I play that shoot 100 and always play from the tips - around 7100 yards.  They play as fast as anyone else and seem to enjoy it.  I am not going to tell them they are playing from the wrong tees.

I also believe that a well designed course should be playable for most from the back tees.  Most groups are going to play from the same tees and therefore it will often be the case that some members are playing from different tees than were envisioned as the course was designed.  

After looking at it from that perspective I think your correct Jason.  I'm all for people playing for the tips as long as they don't struggle with pace of play.

[Bob_Garvelink]

depends on the person.  My ole man can play any track in 3.5 hours and shoot 90-100 from any tee box.  People taking too much time on the greens and not playing ready golf is more of the problem.  

Exactly!

Bob,

Your post makes me think you don't like golf. Real golfers started with featheries and played 3, 4, 5, and 6 shot holes. If all you want to do is putt, there are goofy golf courses for that.

Trust me......my family goes to putt putt often  .

[Garland Bayley]

...
I would generally take more time to read a putt if I missed the green, and now trying to hole a par put. ...

Perhaps you play a different game than the rest of us. No matter how long you take to make a stroke, it still counts one. No discount for extra time taken, just an insult to those sharing the course with you.

[Keith Grande]

Speed of play is ready golf.  Ready to tee off on next hole, reading putts ahead so that you are ready to putt whem it is your turn, etc.

However, playing a course from a set of tees that does not allow you to reach in reguation, will add considerably to a round. Especially if shots are not in the fairway, out of rough which makes reaching and holding greens difficult.  Picture trying to play Bethpage Black from the back tees.  It's quite a slog. Some fairways are borderline unreachable with anything less than a piped tee shot.

[Garland Bayley]

Speed of play is ready golf.  Ready to tee off on next hole, reading putts ahead so that you are ready to putt whem it is your turn, etc.

However, playing a course from a set of tees that does not allow you to reach in reguation, will add considerably to a round. Especially if shots are not in the fairway, out of rough which makes reaching and holding greens difficult.  Picture trying to play Bethpage Black from the back tees.  It's quite a slog. Some fairways are borderline unreachable with anything less than a piped tee shot.

Picture playing ANGC when it was all mown as fairway. Are we taking about course maintenance, or slow play. The dark ages of golf architecture and the accompanying maintenance practices brought us slow play along with the "challenge is fun" nonsense. I myself don't like playing with high handicappers that think challenge is fun while they dump four in a row into the all carry pond fronting the par 3.