[David_Tepper]

Jon -

Have you played both Reay and Wick? Would you recommend one over the other?

DT

[Jud_T]

Adrian,

I appreciate your desire to codify regional rankings, but it's still garbage in, garbage out when each guy assigns a number to an opinion and then they're compiled.  Inevitably one guy hands out 8s like candy while another has virtually no 7s.  Furthermore you need 30 from each region to be statistically significant.  Then you have no way of correcting for the fact that nobody thinks, for instance, giving Turnberry a 6 is right because it's always so highly rated by their peers, even if that's what the course deserves.  I'm really coming around to the view that nothing is really meaningful beyond one respected individual's opinion where you know where you stand in relation to his preferences and biases and how they stack up against your own.  Otherwise you end up with a bunch of well conditioned scenic tournament courses with a handful of historic old school tracks that still command respect for one reason or another, and a smattering of pricey new courses thrown in for good measure.  If I want to play all the courses that have held the Open, the only list I need is a list of Open courses.  Same goes for links with seaside views that cost 100 pounds or more, etc., etc.

[Sean_A]

Jim

Just been in to check the local ratings and started with Moray as it's an area that I've played all but one of the courses in Moray in the last few years so can safely say I know it reasonably well. I note you've included Moray in with Aberdeenshire which I suppose is fair enough although geographically its quite a wide area relative to others. Couple of comments;

1 - you've ranked the top 20 courses but against each course you have individual ball ratings that seem to contradict the courses ranking. For instance a course that is higher in the rankings might only have 4 balls against 5 balls for a course below it. How does that work ? (apologies if you've already answered that)

2 - I'm going to make a guess and suggest that you've not played the majority of courses in Moray which would explain the complete omission of Moray Old and Elgin, both of which have been good enough to host the Northern Open in the recent past. The inclusion of Spey Bay at no. 10 is inexplicable. Not sure I would have it in my top ten in Moray let alone the two areas combined. Its certainly nowhere near as good as Duff House Royal which no doubt suffers in ranking terms because its not a links. Good to see Buckpool in there mind you but overall whopever is doing the ranking for that area clearly needs to get out more.

Niall

The rankings have nothing to do with balls awarded.  The rankings are devised from some sort of formula devised from published magazine lists.  I don't know if the folks at Top100 add their own views as well.  The balls awarded are the punters giving their opinions. 

Ciao

[Ulrich Mayring]

I think we need both, an expert opinion and public input. Top 100 Golf tries to juggle those two and the balance may not be ideal, but it's a work in progress and it needs input, especially of the critical sort. I suppose the critics aren't saying "it can't be done at all, don't even try", but "let's have more expert input and less public". I suppose they think that the rankings would look a lot different then (and better)?

Well, if that were the case, that the rankings done by one person (expert) looked a lot different than those done by 99 persons (public), then we would have a problem! Because, as David already said, those 99 persons are the ones the website is for. Even if we forget about advertising and target markets, it would still the case that a website like Top 100 Golf caters to every golfer out there, not just a minority of experts (like perhaps GCA does).

If a reader of the Top 100 Golf site played an "expert recommended" course and didn't like it, then the site would be of questionable value to this reader - and probably 99% of readers.

So the job of the experts is to produce a decent ranking, where 99% of the readers will not be disappointed by going for the higher ranked course over a lower ranked one. But there also needs to be an element of "popular recognition" - if a course gets many six balls reviews, that means many happy players on that course. It needs to be reflected in the rankings, if a lot of people are having a lot of fun there!

Ulrich

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon -

Have you played both Reay and Wick? Would you recommend one over the other?

DT

David,

Wick is good old fashioned links golf set out in a classic out and back format. It sets off nice and sedately but becomes more and more quirky as the round goes on. The only poor hole is the par 3 at the turn though many of the starting holes are plain. The holes back to the club are a real blast though.

Reay as more variety in direction. It is a fine course and well worth the drive up there. It does not sit as easily on the land as Wick but has many holes that are appealing and challenging without being too difficult. Of the two I prefer Wick but there is not much in it.

Sean, thanks for explaining about the balls.


Jon

[David_Tepper]

"You will find Moray Old, New, Elgin, Forres all in the Highland region for some reason."

Niall & Jon -

Forres, Elgin & the 2 Moray courses are all included in the "Highland" section of "The Official Guide To Golf In Scotland" magazine/brochure produced by VisitScotland.

The boundary for the "Northeast" section does not begin along the Moray coastline until Fordyce/Portsoy and inland until Huntly.

DT

[Jud_T]

Ulrich,

Most of the 99% like the courses they are told to play because they are told they should like them.

[Jim McCann]

James

Here’s a link to the Top 100 Golf Courses “About Us” page:

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/aboutus.asp

Scroll down to “Our ranking process” for a brief overview of what we get up to with our golfing “smoke and mirrors”.

I’m sorry that Notts dropped down 10 places in the GB & I listing as it’s very well regarded by our reviewers. I know that Andy Newmarch, one of the Top 100 directors, was very impressed when he last visited (in 2012, I think). Perhaps he needs to have a closer look at what Mr Irvine, your renowned agronomist, is currently up to.
 
Niall

I’m sorry, Moray does indeed fit into Top 100's “Highlands” region as courses are zoned according to their Scottish Golf Union district (the SGU equivalent is “North”). We need to change the title of our North East region to “Aberdeenshire” (instead of “Aberdeenshire & Moray”).

I personally agree that Duff House Royal is a better course than Spey Bay. The former sits just outside my personal Top 100 for Scotland whilst the latter lies a further thirty places below. My opinion only forms part of the overall process, however (so sometimes I just have to grin and bear it).

Sean   

I note what you said in an earlier post regarding “Top100 eroding its authority by trying to include way too many courses in the rankings”.

There’s always a danger of diluting and possibly degrading the product by drilling too deep into state/region/county level but we expanded to that level due to browser demand as golfers were asking us to provide more comprehensive local listings for counties in GB & I.

Sometimes, you just have to listen to what the ordinary golfer actually wants by way of ranking charts…

[Jon Wiggett]

"You will find Moray Old, New, Elgin, Forres all in the Highland region for some reason."

Niall & Jon -

Forres, Elgin & the 2 Moray courses are all included in the "Highland" section of "The Official Guide To Golf In Scotland" magazine/brochure produced by VisitScotland.

The boundary for the "Northeast" section does not begin along the Moray coastline until Fordyce/Portsoy and inland until Huntly.

DT

David,

Jim has since said that the title is misleading and needs rectifying. I mean, Moray Golf Club, in Moray should be in the section Moray and..

Jon

[Niall C]

"You will find Moray Old, New, Elgin, Forres all in the Highland region for some reason."

Niall & Jon -

Forres, Elgin & the 2 Moray courses are all included in the "Highland" section of "The Official Guide To Golf In Scotland" magazine/brochure produced by VisitScotland.

The boundary for the "Northeast" section does not begin along the Moray coastline until Fordyce/Portsoy and inland until Huntly.

DT

David

Not looking at a map but off the top of my head that would make Duff House Royal in the Highland Region also and not Aberdeenshire and Moray, likewise Spey Bay and Buckpool.

Jim,

Nothing's perfect but appreciate you are happy to listen and hopefully tweak for the better. For some of us its a bit of fun but clearly for others such as Adrian it does count.

Niall

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