The Best Opener in the USA - Long Cove Club?

[Josh Tarble]

Of the courses I've played...I really like #1 at Streamsong Blue.

It would be the best short 4 on almost any other course.  Gives you the opportunity to hit driver but you have to be precise...otherwise you can swing away with any other club with a nice wide fairway and good green comlex.

Good call.  Agree with your logic.  #1 on the Red is pretty solid too, but more of a firm handshake than a gentle one.

If the Red were a par 5, how would it be as an opener? Haven't been, but curious. 

Red #1 is an excellent opener as well.  Definitely lets you swing away but requires a very very good second.

As a par 5 it would be boring.  There isn't much issue with the tee ball, it's a really wide fairway.  The second is excellent from ~200 yards but would be a very non-descript lay up for those not going for it in 2.  Also, the extra "par stroke" would take a bit of pressure off the second.

[Jim_Coleman]

    Dan Jenkins, in his famous 1965 Sports Illustrated article of the best 18 holes in America, had Merion's #1 as the best opening hole.  Merion was the only course with two holes listed - Merion's 11 was his best 11th hole.

[Mark Steffey]

while i like secession's #1, i would prefer it be located elsewhere.   when the caddy has to come watch a first timer on the range to decide what club to give him, that screams TRICK SHOT to me. 

[Wade Schueneman]

It looks like a damn fine hole from those pics but to those who have played both it and the 1st at NGLA - comments? The 1st at NGLA is probably the best first hole I've played in America. Granted my experience is limited.

I  have not played LC, Brian, but I find it hard to imagine a better opener than 1 at NGLA.  I prefer a short, strategic opener (e.g. Prestwick, Garden City, Sebonack).

[Keith OHalloran]

I have always thought the first at Shinnecock is one of the best.

[Tim Gavrich]

Give me the opening holes at Secession, Old White, CC of Farmington (CT) and CC Waterbury (CT) and I'm delighted. The Olde Farm, too.

That first hole at Long Cove looks good, but I don't know if it grabs me like the aforementioned holes do. But, to be fair, I haven't played LCC.

[John Kirk]

John,

   While I'd certainly agree re: Crystal Downs and Sand Hills, other than shortish nature of the hole, it's cramped tee proximity and a well-guarded skinny green, what do you see so compelling or interesting about Riviera #1?

 While I very much like Rivera, and always enjoy playing there, I often think of #1 as the weakest hole on the front and of the least architectural interest. Just wondering?

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Steve,

I like the position of the swale about 400-420 yards out.  Carrying the swale on your second shot can be a good strategic decision.  The 11th hole at Riviera is similar.  I also like the drama of the opening shot there by the clubhouse.

Hope you knee is getting better every day.  Make it happen.

John

[jim_lewis]

I don't even remember the first at Long Cove, but then, there is a lot I don't remember. Some favorites that I certainly do remember are:
Merion
Pine Valley
Pine Tree
#2
Olde Farm
Galloway National

Oakmont and Crystal Downs are too hard for opening holes.
Secession is two different holes depending on whether the tide is in or out.

[John Burnes]

Aronimink

Manufacturers

[Sven Nilsen]

Isn't LC #1 just the reverse of Macrahanish?  Perhaps that's where TD's appreciation comes from.

Here are his words from 2008 on the subject (taken from this thread:  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38017.25.html):

"Anytime someone makes me sit down and do a list of holes 1-18 according to their real numerical order, the first hole at Machrihanish wins, hands-down ... partly because I'm not worried about including a different hole from Machrihanish, and partly because starting in Scotland is never a bad idea.

What I like about that hole is the area around the green.  There's nothing really severe about it, just a couple of funky contours at the front right, but it's much harder to get your ball anywhere close to the hole if you've bailed out off the tee and you are coming in with a longer club, or approaching from off in the right-hand rough even with a short club.

Matt referred dismissively to holes which "ease you into the round," and I think it's important not to start with a dull hole, but at the same time I don't think the first hole is the best place for an exacting little pitch shot ... I'd rather give the golfer a chance to be warmed up first, and since I rarely go to the range before playing I don't expect the golfer to go, either.  Because of that, the first hole at Machrihanish seems to have the best balance of these factors for me.  It's pretty open, but no one would ever call it dull.

That first hole at Garden City is a terrific little opener, too.  If it were any later in the round it would probably be too easy, but for the first tee shot it really makes you work.  We were trying to build a similar opener at Wicked Pony although it's a bit longer and less driveable."

[Tim Martin]

Give

[Tim Martin]

Give me the opening holes at Secession, Old White, CC of Farmington (CT) and CC Waterbury (CT) and I'm delighted. The Olde Farm, too.

That first hole at Long Cove looks good, but I don't know if it grabs me like the aforementioned holes do. But, to be fair, I haven't played LCC.

Agree on CC of Waterbury although CC of Farmington is bit too quirky for me as an opener.

[Mark Saltzman]

While I appreciate the many responses, not many have really answered my question (not that I asked it very well).  I'm not looking for a list of holes that might be better than LCC, but rather I'd like to see why people think this hole could be considered the best first hole in the country.

Sven, thank you for posting the quote/link.. I think that goes a long way to explain Doak's choice.

The hole is not entirely similar to Mach in that the 'bail-out' away from the water/waste bunker leaves the preferred angle of approach.

But, with the pin clearly in view from the green, the golfer is given the choice from the tee whether he would prefer the shorter approach or the preferred angle.  This decision is likely dictated by pin position.  A front/left pin is easily accessed from any portion of the fairway so the golfer will do well to play for the shorter approach.  A front pin should yield birdies.

A right/back pin is a different story.  While the left side of the green allows for a running approach, the right side of the green juts well out into the water.  Still, a running approach can be played if the golfer accepts a longer approach from the far left of the fairway.  If he plays to the right he is left with an all-or-nothing approach should he choose to play at the pin.

I have often said that Dye is the master of temptation.  He fools you to take on needless risks.  I think he does this at the 1st as the golfer is tempted to challenge the trouble on the right, bringing a water hazard into play that is very far from the Line of Charm.

Then we are brought to the green.  Like the green at Mach, there is nothing severe about it, but there is plenty to keep the golfer interested.  A ridge off the front-right bunker will help to funnel balls to front pins, but repel shots played towards right pins.  A roll on the left portion of the green helps to keep marginal approaches on the putting surface, but makes recovery from more severely bailed out approaches a far more difficult proposition.   A spine in the green's centre can be used to funnel balls to the right corner of the green, but missing the spine means chips/putts will leave a ticklish recovery.  And golfer's hoping to reach the narrowish back portion of the green must either play an all-carry approach or thread the needle to play a running approach between the ridge, ripple and spine.

So, in sum, we have a hole that will keep the golfer engaged from tee to green.  We have a hole that, extreme pin positions aside, can be played conservatively for a four, or aggressively bring 3s and 6s into the equation.  As Tom said about Mach, this hole is pretty open, but it's not dull.

[jeffwarne]

Mark,
I worked at Long Cove 3 years.
I always thought one was a good hole, but not as an ideal first hole, for all the reasons you outline so well above.
It's not exactly a gentle handshake as you can easily go through the fairway down the left side.
i always played a 3 wood as I was quite a pronounced right to left player in that era.
The thing is, there are so many good holes at Long Cove that I can't really think of a gentle handshake.
I did make a 1 on the second hole though with a 2 iron!

and JWL I really liked the 5th hole. we had no lazers or marked sprinklers then-just a 100 and 150 post.
 Easy to see the pin from the left half of the fairway.
In an era of cookie cutter crap, it was refreshing to see a hole that made people think-and one that upset those who played it poorly either from inexperience or were poor at handling shots that required judgement and finesse.
Being a member's club, I never saw the need for it "to be all out in front of you", but then I like that funny golf they play in the UK and Ireland too.

[Greg Holland]

yeamans is a really cool opener.  Mid Pines has a nice start too - with elevation changes that can cause issues.  I have always thought that Sedgefield in Greensboro was a good one too - provides subtle architecture and a gentle hand shake as Mr. Ross recommended.   It looks pretty straight-forward from the tee -- bunker up the left for bombers, ob on the far right, but what you don't see from the tee is the natural  hollow that runs through the fairway.   The green also has fall offs to the left and rear.  

[Sean Leary]

I have always thought the first at Shinnecock is one of the best.

My vote as well.

[BCowan]

I have not played long cove and i have a hard time giving any hole that has water on their first hole that much credence(IMO).  I would have to go with #1 at Inverness, Mid Pines, Scarlet OSU or Grosse Ile.  I am too lazy right now to list why i like each hole. 

[Josh Tarble]

While I appreciate the many responses, not many have really answered my question (not that I asked it very well).  I'm not looking for a list of holes that might be better than LCC, but rather I'd like to see why people think this hole could be considered the best first hole in the country.

Sven, thank you for posting the quote/link.. I think that goes a long way to explain Doak's choice.

The hole is not entirely similar to Mach in that the 'bail-out' away from the water/waste bunker leaves the preferred angle of approach.

But, with the pin clearly in view from the green, the golfer is given the choice from the tee whether he would prefer the shorter approach or the preferred angle.  This decision is likely dictated by pin position.  A front/left pin is easily accessed from any portion of the fairway so the golfer will do well to play for the shorter approach.  A front pin should yield birdies.

A right/back pin is a different story.  While the left side of the green allows for a running approach, the right side of the green juts well out into the water.  Still, a running approach can be played if the golfer accepts a longer approach from the far left of the fairway.  If he plays to the right he is left with an all-or-nothing approach should he choose to play at the pin.

I have often said that Dye is the master of temptation.  He fools you to take on needless risks.  I think he does this at the 1st as the golfer is tempted to challenge the trouble on the right, bringing a water hazard into play that is very far from the Line of Charm.

Then we are brought to the green.  Like the green at Mach, there is nothing severe about it, but there is plenty to keep the golfer interested.  A ridge off the front-right bunker will help to funnel balls to front pins, but repel shots played towards right pins.  A roll on the left portion of the green helps to keep marginal approaches on the putting surface, but makes recovery from more severely bailed out approaches a far more difficult proposition.   A spine in the green's centre can be used to funnel balls to the right corner of the green, but missing the spine means chips/putts will leave a ticklish recovery.  And golfer's hoping to reach the narrowish back portion of the green must either play an all-carry approach or thread the needle to play a running approach between the ridge, ripple and spine.

So, in sum, we have a hole that will keep the golfer engaged from tee to green.  We have a hole that, extreme pin positions aside, can be played conservatively for a four, or aggressively bring 3s and 6s into the equation.  As Tom said about Mach, this hole is pretty open, but it's not dull.

Excellent summary.

Do you like the aspect that it "tricks" the golfer into being aggressive?  I think that may be ideal as it makes first time players think the hole is overly difficult and the members know better.

[Rob Curtiss]

I Like the opening hole at Pasatiempo.

Downhill and a wonderful view of the Monterey Bay.

Whats not to like.

[John Kavanaugh]

I Like the opening hole at Pasatiempo.

Downhill and a wonderful view of the Monterey Bay.

Whats not to like.

I thought the first at Pasatiempo was the worst first hole on a course that I paid more than $100 to play.  The driving range left, the trees right and I believe an awkward yardage do to the original tee being out of play.  It was just a damn disappointment for the first Californian Mackenzie I had ever played.  It has to be the worst and possibly the only bad hole on the course.

[Rob Curtiss]

well maybe it was because it is the only Mckenzie course I have had the pleasure of playing and I striped one down the middle 290 yrds. From the tips no less.

[John Kirk]

Perhaps I'm being too severe in my thinking, but I rule out any golf hole with water all down one side in a "best of" list.  The hole may be strategically superb, but it is flat, not all that pretty, and your chances of losing one right into the water off the tee are significant, a double digit percentage.

[Matt Glore]

Sand Hills #1 is the best opener I have played.

You get a great view of the round to come from the first teeing area.  You get to hit driver elevated with a lot of room for error.  
A nice mid iron to long iron for the better player laying up, and a wedge to sand wedge into a fair but fast green (also the nicest green I ever putted on up to that point in my life).

To me it made up for the lack of a full warm up session at the range.  I got to hit all the shots on the first hole.  Fantastic start to a round.

[John Shimp]

I love Chicago Golf Club but N0.1 there is too hard for an opener in my view.  The only thing that makes it feel easier is when you step on the tee of hole 2.

[Josh Tarble]

Perhaps I'm being too severe in my thinking, but I rule out any golf hole with water all down one side in a "best of" list.  The hole may be strategically superb, but it is flat, not all that pretty, and your chances of losing one right into the water off the tee are significant, a double digit percentage.

Even if the optimal play is as far away from the water as you can get?

I am inclined to agree with you, but my opinion is that a good hole is a good hole, whether it's the 1st or the 17th.  

Having water may be better than trees or OB.  May help with pace of play.