University of Michigan - Changes to #6

[Matt Bielawa]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find anything.  Added area to the top level of the 6th green, and cleared out more trees.  Sounds like this is a restoration to the original MacKenzie plan.  I would think this will make back level pin positions much more frequent.  From the times I've played the course, it's not back there very often.

http://umgolfcourse.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-times-they-are-changinback.html

[BCowan]

Awesome Matt

  #6 at UofM is one of the best short 4's in the world.  I am glad they are restoring it.  They did a great job taking down trees behind #8 last year!  I thought the back of 6th green was too small.  The UofM plan is a wise, they are going to do it incrementally over a longer period of time than most...  Much improvement last winter with many trees getting the ax...

[PCCraig]

Looks awesome.

[Matt Bielawa]

Agreed.  Still have a hard time getting used to the trees being gone behind #7.  It makes the hole better, but the view was a little better when State Street was blocked by them.

[Sean_A]

Is DeVries in on the work?

Does anybody know if the following areas have been or will be dealt with

Trees dwon left of #3

Trees down left of #4

Trees down left of #10

Trees on both sides of #11

Trees down left of #15

Enlarging #1 green

Enlarging #4 green to the left

Mowing patterns to expand short grass around greens

Ciao

[BCowan]

You could see exposed roots on the 7th green when they were there.  Something i had never seen.  I know what you are saying.  They could put dense small spruces along the Fence line they are doing on 8 at Radrick.  I'd rather see a road than a house IMO.  UofM is going to be so so great when plan is finished.  

[BCowan]

Sean

Devries is doing the work

Tree's down last winter, left of #4 green much more sun, also affecting #11.  Biggest change is trees behind #8 green all gone.

Yes they are going to reclaim lost green space.

#1 was originally a par 4.  

Don't know about 3 (which i am in favor of)

Don't know about other holes you mentioned.  They are going to do changes over the course of a longer time, then typical renovations go.  

[Sean_A]

This is all good news- especially if DeVries is on the scene.  The last time a played the course a few years ago it was in rough nick.  Around the greens it was either a narrow collar or harsh rough - just a terrible set-up.  

Ciao

[Howard Riefs]

 #6 at UofM is one of the best short 4's in the world. 

I have yet to play U of M.  What are the other best short 4s in the world that you've played?

[BCowan]

Just in the State's sir, sorry if i made a blanket statement.  Maybe others who have played it and other top holes across the world can chime in and see if my statement is way off or accurate.  Don't have the deep pockets like many to travel around the world yet, but i am working my way up to you...

[Howard Riefs]

Just in the State's sir, sorry if i made a blanket statement.  Maybe others who have played it and other top holes across the world can chime in and see if my statement is way off or accurate.  Don't have the deep pockets like many to travel around the world yet, but i am working my way up to you...

It was a simple question. I don't concern myself with anyone's ability to climb the income ladder.

[Jason Thurman]

Aren't all short 4s among the best short 4s in the world? I rarely hear of anyone playing a short par 4 that he didn't love.

Half par holes are fun when they're easy birdies. Everybody who plays at my home course loves our 18th hole, though I suspect it wasn't nearly as popular in our early days. It was a 250 yard par 3 in 1923, but it's a 280 yard par 4 now.

[Sean_A]

I think the 6th definitely one of the better short 4s I have played - not so sure about one of the best in the world.  I think it would be better if it were slightly shorter, trees down the left were cut down and fairway flowing right of the green.  The extra rear putting space will partly mitigate the need for more room right.

Ciao

[Matt Bielawa]

Just in the State's sir, sorry if i made a blanket statement.  Maybe others who have played it and other top holes across the world can chime in and see if my statement is way off or accurate.  Don't have the deep pockets like many to travel around the world yet, but i am working my way up to you...

I wouldn't say your statement was that far off.  It's a really good hole--especially when the pin is in the back.  I like #13 there as well, which is reasonably short.

Riviera #10 is probably the gold standard for short 4's, though I've never played it.  Here are a few of the best short 4's I can think of that I've played:

#18 Inverness
#14 Oak Hill East
#8 and #9 Radrick Farms
#9 Streamsong Red
#15 World Woods Pine Barrens
#9 Blackwolf Run River

[BHoover]

Would have been nice if OSU had brought in DeVries to renovate Scarlet instead of Nicklaus.  I'm partially kidding.

How does UofM's course compare to OSU Scarlet?  

[BCowan]

Sean-  There was a hole in one there by an employee.  I think with equipment 280 is just fine.  #8 at Oakmont is 290 and is a par three, i know the green doesn't sit up.  Great suggestions.  Trees between 3 and 4 will be planted to prevent people from going down 4 fairway.  Ala #8 at Inverness.

Mr Riefs-  I didn't mean to be sarcastic.  

Matt-  Yes, #18 at Inverness, #14 at Naples National, and many others

Jason- I went to OSU, so for me to love UofM like i do says a lot.  Also i did a 4 page paper on the #6th hole and the person grading was glad i didn't pick #10 at Rivera (great hole, no offense).  #6 at UofM doesn't get any TV Camera action.

I live 3 miles from there, think i am going to pop in and look at the other goodness to come.  

Brian- I went to OSU and prefer UofM.  I did love tree removal they did at OSU, but JN would of been last person. Look forward to playing it next summer.  Some complain that the front at UofM has too many blind tee shots.  I love that aspect, but many Americans don't.  

[BHoover]

 

Brian- I went to OSU and prefer UofM.  I did love tree removal they did at OSU, but JN would of been last person. Look forward to playing it next summer.  Some complain that the front at UofM has too many blind tee shots.  I love that aspect, but many Americans don't.  

I don't think Nicklaus did as bad of a job as some people seem to think.  Okay, the 4th hole doesn't fit in with the rest of the course, and the 14th green probably doesn't either.  But Nicklaus was charged with making Scarlet a big, brawny tournament course.  In that respect, he succeeded.  But I wouldn't call it a "fun" course by any stretch of the imagination.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Also i did a 4 page paper on the #6th hole

BCowan, I might guess that I speak for at least a couple of people on this board and ask you to post your paper for us all to learn something...

[BCowan]

Some Photo's, don't think they do the hole justice.  





Chris- I am just a student of Golf Course Architecture and have much to learn.  The point i was making to Jason was that i wouldn't of wasted time writing 4 pages if the hole wasn't outstanding.  So we will leave it up to the well traveled and arch's to decide or give their input.  Tone down your sarcastic responses towards me.  

[Jim Sherma]

Very good looking hole. What is the preferred strategy here? From the picture it looks like the cart path out to the right would be where I would be looking to hit it in order to open up the spine of the green. Not sure if the slopes work or if the cut allows for a good shot from over there.

[Jason Thurman]

Ben, I've gotten to know Chris pretty well. I don't think there was anything sarcastic about his post. His thirst for architecture knowledge is insatiable, and I think he would be genuinely interested in reading your essay. So would I. In fact, I think many GCA members would be very interested in it. There's a whole section of the site devoted to such narratives (the In My Opinion section, if you haven't seen it). It'd be great if you posted it for us.

You mention that it was graded. Was it written for a class?

[Richard Choi]

I would second Chris' request. Would love to read the paper. You should know by now people around here love to devour any information related to golf architecture.

It is a great hole, especially after the recent redo, and looks like it will get even better. Is it world-class? Probably not, as it hurts me much to say it.

[BCowan]

Mr Sherma

   Yes it is too bad the cart path isn't a mulch path.  I think they should shorten the middle and ladies tee to give everyone a more realistic shot at hitting it or going for it.  The decision off the tee is totally contingent on if the pin is in the front or back.  Both pin locations give you at least 2 options to play the hole.  The spine is a little narrow, and i don't think they are widening that part.  there is a slope that will move it left up the spine, but the spine is very narrow.   You can lay back and do a half 8 iron punch into the spine.  It is about 4-6ft of an increase from front of green to the back.  A gentlemen from Denver who I played with last year for our gathering was still in love with the hole and we both 4 putted the hole as it was in the back of the green.  I am interested to see what the arch's have to say about the hole...  I forgot to answer your question, you really don't get a direct line from right fairway, but right rough isn't bad gives you more top spin to run it up the spine.  That is why laying back to give a full sand wedge or lob wedge is wise when pin is in back.

Jason- thanks for the info, i will check it out.
Chris- I apologize if i took your response the wrong way 

[Morgan Clawson]

What a cool green.

Can you feed a putt  from the upper tier to the lower left tier?

Looks like way too many pines along the sides of the hole.

[BCowan]

Morgan

    Yes you can fed a putt much easier than it looks, it is really cool.  Easier going down than going up. I would cut down the pines to the Left.  The cypress looking trees to the right help protect 4 tee from errant shots and i don't mind them.  Not sure if they are in original design.  If you in the midwest stop on by next summer.

Richard- I emailed Ran the paper for ''In my Opinion'', so up to him.  Paper was written prior to redo of back green.  you PM me i can email you paper