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Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2013, 08:03:43 AM »
Why the big drop of Whistling Straits?

jeffwarne

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2013, 08:44:50 AM »
Why the big drop of Whistling Straits?


My guess would be that as more people travel and hidden gems become mainstream, and more great courses are built/discovered, that the courses that  perhaps initially get inflated reviews from Majors/TV exposure and accessibility, eventually find their level
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 11:31:36 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Michael Whitaker

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2013, 11:00:07 AM »
Highlands Links at 57 is off to me, especially with Cabot Links nowhere in sight. I like Highlands Links, but can't agree that it is considerably better than lots of other courses, on and off this list. On a 10 round split I would play Cabot Links 7 times.

The other listing that surprised me was the 31 point jump for Castle Stuart. "Hanse Effect"?  
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 11:02:04 AM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2013, 11:32:16 AM »
Highlands Links at 57 is off to me, especially with Cabot Links nowhere in sight. I like Highlands Links, but can't agree that it is considerably better than lots of other courses, on and off this list. On a 10 round split I would play Cabot Links 7 times.

The other listing that surprised me was the 31 point jump for Castle Stuart. "Hanse Effect"?  

Don't get you knickers in a twist, Mike, this list is just a guy trying to make a living (i.e. no different than the folks at Golf Digest, Golf Magazine, Golf World, Golf Course Architecture, Links Magazine, etc.).  It's fun to debate whether A is "better" than B or vice versa, and if we do it with argmuents which have some substance we may even learn a little, from time to time.  Other than that, fuggedabootit!
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2013, 11:39:27 AM »
I wondered if anybody was going to notice the pecking order around Aberdeen...

Let's see, along the coast going southwards from the Broch to Cove there's  -
Fraserburgh GC - 18
Rosehill at Fraserburgh GC - 9
Inverallochy GC - 18
Peterhead GC - 18
'New' 9 at Peterhead GC
Cruden Bay GC - 18
St Olaf at Cruden Bay GC - 9
Collieston (NLE)
Newburgh GC - 18
Murcar GC - 18
Strabathie at Murcar GC - 9
Royal Aberdeen GC - 18
Silverburn at Royal Aberdeen GC - 18
Kings Links - 18
Balnagask/Nigg Bay GC - 18
Balnagask/Nigg Bay GC - 9-hole pitch-n-putt
Any others of any consequence on this stretch of coastline?;)
ATB

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2013, 01:39:16 PM »
I don't pay much attention to rankings and the Top100GolfCourses ranking process just reinforces my belief that they are not to be taken seriously. This ranking process is quite odd in my opinion.

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/aboutus.asp

Why would "decades of historical ranking information" have any relevance to a 2014 ranking? What is "fresh" and "original" about using the published data from other rankings. Seems very unoriginal to me.  ???

It's all good fun and at least nobody gets hurt, so there's no harm done.  :)

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2013, 01:46:37 PM »
Highlands Links at 57 is off to me, especially with Cabot Links nowhere in sight. I like Highlands Links, but can't agree that it is considerably better than lots of other courses, on and off this list. On a 10 round split I would play Cabot Links 7 times.

The other listing that surprised me was the 31 point jump for Castle Stuart. "Hanse Effect"?  

Don't get you knickers in a twist, Mike, this list is just a guy trying to make a living (i.e. no different than the folks at Golf Digest, Golf Magazine, Golf World, Golf Course Architecture, Links Magazine, etc.).  It's fun to debate whether A is "better" than B or vice versa, and if we do it with argmuents which have some substance we may even learn a little, from time to time.  Other than that, fuggedabootit!

A few years ago, in the unofficial GCA world top 100 survey, at least one person gave Pine Valley a 7, based on the Doak scale.  I think the score should count, and would love to hear his/her reasons.  

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2013, 02:19:37 PM »
Jim,

I played Pine Valley 20 years ago.
To be fair, my memory has faded a bit. though my recollection is often jogged by all the fantastic photos and discussion we see of PV here on GCA.
I remember not being blown away by it, and having a feeling of merely trying to keep it in the fairly large corridors, without straying by a lot. Many holes looked and played similar to me)i.e. hit something in a 40-60 yard corridor), and while I felt it was an excellent course, it did not stir nearly the same emotions in me that I felt when I played NGLA, Shinnecock, ANGC, Royal County Down for the first time.(courses I was first exposed to in that era)
 My criticism of it would be that it is quite one dimensional, but that's a 20 year opinion with no specific reasons ::) ::) other than the emotions I can recollect from the experience.

Since then I have been blown away by such places as Eastward Ho, Portsalon ,Pennard St, Enodoc and a few others, but perhaps that was a question of expectations.
Most recently I was exposed to Merion and would rate it as least as high as PV, if not higher, but that's not really a crazy revelation.

What I'm saying is, I could easily see giving Pine Valley  an 8 or even a 7.
I think if you took your average player, or even your average rater, and didn't tell them where they were, they could come up with similar feelings. Now with some serious tree work, and opening up some long views and vistas, I'm 100% sure my excitement about the course would greatly increase.

many can pick apart a course and tell you one or three "weaker" holes prevent it from greatness, or that setting doesn't matter, or scenery, or the feeling you get when you take it all in on the first tee or walking off #18, but it all factors in for me, and it's certainly completely unscientific.

In a nutshell, perhaps the raters who gave it a 7, didn't succumb to all the preround expectations and peer pressure of recognizing the #1 ranked course in the world, and truly felt it was a 7.
Conversely, extremely high expectations can work against a course, and leave one feeling disappointed if they didn't feel a connection after playing.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2013, 03:48:56 PM »
It doesn't have to be a perfect ranking, just the best out there :)

Perfect would mean everyone agrees - how could that ever happen? The best means that more people agree with it than with any other ranking. So that should be the yardstick to measure it by.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Marc Huther

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2013, 03:54:23 PM »
Haha the Donald will not be happy!

Niall C

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2013, 09:25:38 AM »
For some reason I can't access the link. Can someone who can please tell me how high Forfar is ?

Thanks

Niall

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2013, 10:28:00 AM »
For some reason I can't access the link. Can someone who can please tell me how high Forfar is ?

Thanks

Niall

"The Best Heathland Course in Angus"

I'm sure it's just off the list at 101 or 102!  ;)  
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Ron Csigo

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2013, 11:10:55 AM »
Glad to see Pasatiempo on this list. Truly deserves to be there.

I feel Bandon Trails should be here as well.
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2013, 12:40:42 AM »
Haha the Donald will not be happy!

Mr. Trump got his course rated #1 in the world by that great authority on golf courses -- The Robb Report.  He will now and forever after refer to his course as "ranked #1 in the world" no matter what anyone else says.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2013, 05:51:59 AM »
Top100 is a fine reference source and there is some useful advice and comments therein.
There are also some comments and reviews that attract, well um, interesting responses. For example, there is a wonderful comment by an eminent GCA who posts herein in response to a review by another poster of a very famous Irish course. The comment? "You, Sir, are a fool". Guess which course and guess which GCA?
ATB

Jeff Johnston

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2013, 07:28:11 AM »
There are also some comments and reviews that attract, well um, interesting responses. For example, there is a wonderful comment by an eminent GCA who posts herein in response to a review by another poster of a very famous Irish course. The comment? "You, Sir, are a fool". Guess which course and guess which GCA?

Thomas, i remember chuckling when I read that a while back......pretty sure it was Mr Doak? I beleive in response to some fairly lame whinging re Portrush Dunluce.

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2013, 09:02:04 AM »
I'll take a stab at this: The European Club and Scott Warren/Pat Ruddy :)

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Thomas Dai

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2013, 12:18:02 PM »

There are also some comments and reviews that attract, well um, interesting responses. For example, there is a wonderful comment by an eminent GCA who posts herein in response to a review by another poster of a very famous Irish course. The comment? "You, Sir, are a fool". Guess which course and guess which GCA?

...pretty sure it was Mr Doak? I beleive in response to some fairly lame whinging re Portrush Dunluce.

Excellent answer. Well done. First prize to Jeff!

ATB

Mac Plumart

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2013, 12:22:47 PM »
Is the Valley Club (at #98) that good?

YES!  Maybe better than 98.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Top 100 Golf Courses 2014 World Ranking Released
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2013, 06:25:46 PM »
I'll take a stab at this: The European Club and Scott Warren/Pat Ruddy :)

Ulrich

;D

If it didn't involve a threat of legal action or a comparison drawn between a crap golf hole and the work of David Copperfield, then it wasn't the Ruddmeister!

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