[David Davis]

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/story.asp?id=474

Comments?

[Mark Pearce]

As always there will be a number of rankings that people will disagree with.  Two of my hobby horses of 2013 on this site for instance feature: I can't agree with a ranking that has Woodhall Spa higher than Ganton and I reckon I have played two Dutch courses that are better golf courses than Noordwijkse.  I'm sure there are more, if I look harder but that's not really the point.  There again, I'm nort really sure what the point is, other than to say that these are courses worth playing and I wouldn't disagree that they are all worth playing.

[Mark Pearce]

Brian,

I've only played two of those but certainly agree on both of them.

[Sean_A]

The top100 world is slowly looking more and more like very other list - what a pity.  

Just talking GB&I

Eight Out for Eight In

Deal for Turnberry (not even close!)
Prestwick for Birkdale (judgement call, but a bit of quirk has to count for something)
Rye for Carnoustie (Rye is a far more clever course than the brute approach of Nasty)
Alwoodley for Lytham (why people get suckered in by 200 bunkers parading as good design is a mystery to me)
St Enodoc for Woodhall (is there really anybody out there that would pay to play Woodhall over St Enodoc?)
Formby for TEC (another no brainer)
Portstewart for Porthcawl (another judgement call, but I am taking daring over solid in this case)

Ciao

[BCowan]

Inverness is not on there.  OMG

[Chris_Hufnagel]

I guess the remodel at TOC was a success...

[Peter Pallotta]

The top100 world is slowly looking more and more like very other list - what a pity.  

Just talking GB&I

Eight Out for Eight In

Deal for Turnberry (not even close!)
Prestwick for Birkdale (judgement call, but a bit of quirk has to count for something)
Rye for Carnoustie (Rye is a far more clever course than the brute approach of Nasty)
Alwoodley for Lytham (why people get suckered in by 200 bunkers parading as good design is a mystery to me)
St Enodoc for Woodhall (is there really anybody out there that would pay to play Woodhall over St Enodoc?)
Formby for TEC (another no brainer)
Portstewart for Porthcawl (another judgement call, but I am taking daring over solid in this case)

Ciao

For an older guy and a gentleman, you have a pleasingly radical and anti-traditionalist side to you. You knock Open rota courses off the list as if swatting at flies!

[Sean_A]

The top100 world is slowly looking more and more like very other list - what a pity.  

Just talking GB&I

Eight Out for Eight In

Deal for Turnberry (not even close!)
Prestwick for Birkdale (judgement call, but a bit of quirk has to count for something)
Rye for Carnoustie (Rye is a far more clever course than the brute approach of Nasty)
Alwoodley for Lytham (why people get suckered in by 200 bunkers parading as good design is a mystery to me)
St Enodoc for Woodhall (is there really anybody out there that would pay to play Woodhall over St Enodoc?)
Formby for TEC (another no brainer)
Portstewart for Porthcawl (another judgement call, but I am taking daring over solid in this case)

Ciao

For an older guy and a gentleman, you have a pleasingly radical and anti-traditionalist side to you. You knock Open rota courses off the list as if swatting at flies!

Pietro

At least one spurious claim against me!  To be fair, I did add in two olde worlde Open venues.  Does that put me back in the traditionalist column?

Ciao    

[Nigel Islam]

Is Leopard Creek that good?

[David Davis]

As always there will be a number of rankings that people will disagree with.  Two of my hobby horses of 2013 on this site for instance feature: I can't agree with a ranking that has Woodhall Spa higher than Ganton and I reckon I have played two Dutch courses that are better golf courses than Noordwijkse.  I'm sure there are more, if I look harder but that's not really the point.  There again, I'm nort really sure what the point is, other than to say that these are courses worth playing and I wouldn't disagree that they are all worth playing.

Woodhall not high on my list either. No chance of it being in the Top 100.  

Mark, the experts disagree. I also disagree with your assessment of NL and I know the courses fairly well. Royal Hague and Noordwijkse have always gone back and forth as the top 2 although for the last many years now Noordwijkse has been seen as superior, both nationally and internationally by most (but not all). That with all it's flaws. Slowly I'm working on those, progress is much slower than I'd hope but it's hard to fight against the institution. One of those based on all your comments would completely change your opinion had it been done before BUDA.

I will remark that you have a significant almost bitterness towards the course which is your absolute prerogative of course but I can't help but to feel that had you played good and not lost balls on the day you might not feel the same way.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I think Sean has the way forward, a few more

Cruden Bay makes way for Pennard
Walton Heath for Woking
Sunny New for …THE New Course.


I’ve played about 1/3 of them and about 5 stand out as being as good as it’s likely to get. After that it is personal and Turnberry would certainly make my top 100. Seems like a while since anyone has fallen back on “chacun à son gout”.   

[Jordan Standefer]

I'll admit I know next to nothing about how these lists are compiled, but it strikes me as odd that courses can move 24, 31, and 48 spots on a biennial list.  I guess that when you get to see that high quality of golf course, it is all splitting hairs.

It's also interesting to see Bandon Trails do some renovation work--like on the 18th--and get bumped, while other courses are "rewarded" for their improvements.  I know it was at the bottom of the previous list, but that stuck out to me.

[Bart Bradley]

Is Leopard Creek that good?

Leopard Creek is a nice course, with above average green contours.  It is in beautiful condition and sits adjacent to protected game lands.  It is a cool experience.  It does not, in my opinion, offer the quality of routing or general architecture found at Humewood or Durban.  I love South Africa and am glad to see it represented in World lists...but I'd rather see it represented with Humewood, Durban or even Fancourt Links, for that matter.

Bart

[Mark Pearce]

David,

No bitterness at all towards Noordwijkse.  It's a very good course on a great piece of land.  It has a very active and welcoming membership.  I really enjoyed my day there.  I just think that Royal Hague and De Pan are better courses.  The "experts", whoever they may be, may well disagree (though I know of at least two individuals qualified to rank as "experts" who don't) but that's my opinion.  Noordwijkse just struck me as a missed opportunity, given the wonderful ground it is on.

[Sean_A]

I think Sean has the way forward, a few more

Cruden Bay makes way for Pennard
Walton Heath for Woking
Sunny New for …THE New Course.


I’ve played about 1/3 of them and about 5 stand out as being as good as it’s likely to get. After that it is personal and Turnberry would certainly make my top 100. Seems like a while since anyone has fallen back on “chacun à son gout”.   

Spangles

I think is as good as some I didn't toss out, but not quite as good as WHO - thats mainly down to turf quality - though I prefer Woking.  The two courses I am very suspect of are Loch Lomond and Waterville.  I haven't seen the new LL, but I wasn't impressed by the old version.  

No way I look to sneak TNC into the GB&I top 32 . Its a fairly one dimensional design through loads of gorse when compared to the true greats of GB&I.  I would be looking to promote probably 20 other courses other than TNC.  You heard it here first, Kington is better than TNC!

Ciao

[John Percival]

Shadow Creek - NORTH?
Is that Las Vegas's SC?

[Steve Lapper]

I'll admit I know next to nothing about how these lists are compiled, but it strikes me as odd that courses can move 24, 31, and 48 spots on a biennial list.  I guess that when you get to see that high quality of golf course, it is all splitting hairs.

It's also interesting to see Bandon Trails do some renovation work--like on the 18th--and get bumped, while other courses are "rewarded" for their improvements.  I know it was at the bottom of the previous list, but that stuck out to me.

LACC North more than deserves the leap up it's enjoying. Gil, Jim and Geoff's restoration work was magnificent.

[Michael Goldstein]

Shame that Pram has dropped out. Need to get some kiwis contributing to these rankings panels I think.
It's a class above a number of courses on the list.

[David_Tepper]

Is the Valley Club (at #98) that good?

Don't think The Donald will be happy to see his course is considered only the 3rd best on the Aberdeenshire coastline.

[Tom_Doak]

Mark, the experts disagree. I also disagree with your assessment of NL and I know the courses fairly well. Royal Hague and Noordwijkse have always gone back and forth as the top 2 although for the last many years now Noordwijkse has been seen as superior, both nationally and internationally by most (but not all). That with all it's flaws. Slowly I'm working on those, progress is much slower than I'd hope but it's hard to fight against the institution. One of those based on all your comments would completely change your opinion had it been done before BUDA.

I will remark that you have a significant almost bitterness towards the course which is your absolute prerogative of course but I can't help but to feel that had you played good and not lost balls on the day you might not feel the same way.

Well, I didn't play Noordwijk at all, so you can't accuse me of having that bias against it.  And I thought it was the fourth best course I saw in The Netherlands.  A distant fourth at that.

[Jason Thurman]

What is the ranking methodology?

Reading through the list made me think about Sarah Marshall's impression of Aldous Snow. I haven't seen enough of the courses or the other contenders to actually make any judgments though.

[Jordan Standefer]

LACC North more than deserves the leap up it's enjoying. Gil, Jim and Geoff's restoration work was magnificent.

No doubt.  I've heard nothing but great things about the restoration of LACC North from those who have played there.  I guess I'm just used to seeing more methodical moves in other publications.  In that sense, it's nice to see a site that is able to reevaluate a course dramatically when the opportunity presents itself.

I hope I didn't draw a parallel with my last post between courses that have had "nips and tucks" versus those with full-on restorations.  Obviously, those are two different things.  

[Jim Hoak]

David, in my opinion the Valley Club at #98 is that good.
It is one of those subtle MacKenzie/Hunter courses that grows on you the more you play it.  It doesn't knock you over at first.
Glad to see it getting some recognition.

[David Davis]

Well, I didn't play Noordwijk at all, so you can't accuse me of having that bias against it.  And I thought it was the fourth best course I saw in The Netherlands.  A distant fourth at that.

Tom, I don't think I was accusing anyone of anything. However, you made a comment about Noordwijkse when I posted the photo tour a while back that made it sound like you don't quite remember it that well.

"Nice photos; the course looks better than I remember it.  It was pretty chilly when I walked it a couple of years back, in early December."

While I don't mind of course if you don't like it, I do respect your opinion. Now it's a distant fourth ... ce est la vie.

[Jim McCann]

David Tepper

I wondered if anybody was going to notice the pecking order around Aberdeen...

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