Have turf fans become obsolete?

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the darkest phase in the history of turf management past us?  Are courses still purchasing fans?  

[Tom_Doak]

I just heard a club in a northern climate discussing fans this summer.

However, fans in general should be on the decline, due to the new bermudagrasses.

[Bill_McBride]

Craziest I ever saw was a course in Ponte Vedra, Plantation Golf Club.  It was a good solid course but every bent grass green was encircled on sides and rear with four or five R2D2 shaped oscillating fans.   Many drops were required if you missed a green.

I can't imagine they still have bent greens, or the fans, in these days.   I was last there 15 or so years ago.

I remember it was the first course where I was required to have my metal spiked shoes fitted with those newfangled "soft spikes."

[Anthony_Nysse]

John,
  The courses that ulitize them are seeing the sucess that the fans offfer-cooler canopy and soil temps for the bentgrass. In fact, I've seen numerous Superintendents using pull behind leave blowers (buffalo blower) on greens. They dont have to pull electrical power, purchase the fan, but still get the results.
  We have 80+ fans at Colonial and without them, we wouldnt have had grass. Numeros courses up the east coast or using them also...with success.
  They have their place is low cut, fast greens are expected. Especially is tree removal is not an other. Several Top 25 clubs use them....and need them.
  

[John Kavanaugh]

John,
  The courses that ulitize them are seeing the sucess that the fans offfer-cooler canopy and soil temps for the bentgrass. In fact, I've seen numerous Superintendents using pull behind leave blowers (buffalo blower) on greens. They dont have to pull electrical power, purchase the fan, but still get the results.
  We have 80+ fans at Colonial and without them, we wouldnt have had grass. Numeros courses up the east coast or using them also...with success.
  They have their place is low cut, fast greens are expected. Especially is tree removal is not an other. Several Top 25 clubs use them....and need them.
  

Anthony,

How many years did Colonial have grass on their greens before fans?

[Rich Goodale]

It seems to me to be only a matter of time that golf in the climatic zones that have either hot summers or cold winters or both will be played on domed courses that allow 365/24/7 play.  The only places you will be able to hear skylarks hovering 200 feet or so above your balll will be in the UK and other part of littorals Europe.......

[Anthony_Nysse]

John,
  The courses that ulitize them are seeing the sucess that the fans offfer-cooler canopy and soil temps for the bentgrass. In fact, I've seen numerous Superintendents using pull behind leave blowers (buffalo blower) on greens. They dont have to pull electrical power, purchase the fan, but still get the results.
  We have 80+ fans at Colonial and without them, we wouldnt have had grass. Numeros courses up the east coast or using them also...with success.
  They have their place is low cut, fast greens are expected. Especially is tree removal is not an other. Several Top 25 clubs use them....and need them.
  

Anthony,

How many years did Colonial have grass on their greens before fans?

[Anthony_Nysse]

John,
  The courses that ulitize them are seeing the sucess that the fans offfer-cooler canopy and soil temps for the bentgrass. In fact, I've seen numerous Superintendents using pull behind leave blowers (buffalo blower) on greens. They dont have to pull electrical power, purchase the fan, but still get the results.
  We have 80+ fans at Colonial and without them, we wouldnt have had grass. Numeros courses up the east coast or using them also...with success.
  They have their place is low cut, fast greens are expected. Especially is tree removal is not an other. Several Top 25 clubs use them....and need them.
  

Anthony,

How many years did Colonial have grass on their greens before fans?

Since 1936. And it died every summer. Fans give it, along with turf at Pine Valley, Kinloch, Muirfield Village, Oakmont VICTORIA National, Winged Foot, to name a few, the best chance to survive the heat and humidity. University research along with Superintendent testing prove their worth. You've always had some sort of thing against them and do not care to understand or see the benefit.
  Fans are not an end all, be all to turfgrass heath. They are a tool. Just like Subair. These tools allow Superintendents that best chances to produce the conditions that golfers are expecting.
  The USGA has gone to great lengths to explain the reasons/benefits of fans.

http://www.usga.org/news/2011/August/Using-Turf-Fans-In-The-Northeast/

[Joe Bausch]

I played a course in southern Delaware this summer that employed some of these big fans, and powered like I typically notice by electricity.  But one of them on the course appeared to have been retrofitted with a small horsepower gasoline motor!

[John Kavanaugh]

I think the combination of high cost, improved attitudes towards tree management and the success seen in tournament golf using new Bermuda strains has changed what golfers expect.  

[Pat Burke]

Since 1936. And it died every summer. Fans give it, along with turf at Pine Valley, Kinloch, Muirfield Village, Oakmont VICTORIA National, Winged Foot, to name a few, the best chance to survive the heat and humidity. University research along with Superintendent testing prove their worth. You've always had some sort of thing against them and do not care to understand or see the benefit.
  Fans are not an end all, be all to turfgrass heath. They are a tool. Just like Subair. These tools allow Superintendents that best chances to produce the conditions that golfers are expecting.
  The USGA has gone to great lengths to explain the reasons/benefits of fans.

http://www.usga.org/news/2011/August/Using-Turf-Fans-In-The-Northeast/

[/quote]

Better, classier answer than I might have given

[Carl Johnson]

We put in fans at my club in Charlotte about 3 years ago.  They have proven their worth keeping the bent from disease and death in the summer.  Cutting trees and repositioning some greens for better circulation was just not enough.  I suppose that if we re-did our greens today, they'd be one of the mini-Bermuda strains, but as it is now they're only five years old and I cannot imagine the club ripping them out so soon.  So, I expect that long-term the fans will become less and less appropriate as courses change grass, but I don't see it happening overnight.  "Perfect" is hard to come by.

[Brett Wiesley]

I've only found them a distraction the first time you see them.  They are part of the maintenance of a golf course these days.  Most if not all are at least painted a tasteful color, and partially hidden from line sight.

[John Kavanaugh]

Fan installation is superintendent driven.  There are equal methods that unfortunately put the super at risk. I was just telling my son the benefit of being a golfer such as I are the friendships you are able to develop while playing. Men need activity to associate. Sometimes you need to talk to a friend and this is easily done on a golf course.  Large green side fans make this impossible killing the social aspect of the game. I may as well go to a casino and play the slots alone as golf in an environment created by supers for supers.

I have seen zero evidence that the greens at my home course are better after the installation of the fans than before. Just cause you don't die doesn't win your Dr. the Nobel Prize.  I submit as proof that this is fact by the very evidence that the super who installed the fans does not require them at his new gig. He simply hired a competent architect to design a fan less restoration. I give him credit for learning from his mistakes.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Fan installation is superintendent driven.  There are equal methods that unfortunately put the super at risk. I was just telling my son the benefit of being a golfer such as I are the friendships you are able to develop while playing. Men need activity to associate. Sometimes you need to talk to a friend and this is easily done on a golf course.  Large green side fans make this impossible killing the social aspect of the game. I may as well go to a casino and play the slots alone as golf in an environment created by supers for supers.

I have seen zero evidence that the greens at my home course are better after the installation of the fans than before. Just cause you don't die doesn't win your Dr. the Nobel Prize.  I submit as proof that this is fact by the very evidence that the super who installed the fans does not require them at his new gig. He simply hired a competent architect to design a fan less restoration. I give him credit for learning from his mistakes.

Come on, John. I do not think that it's any secret thatyou've had a thing against your previous Superitendent and now after 5-6 years since leaving Vic, you're still trying to drag him down. Weird, how he as named Superintedent of the year recently. I supposed that hes doing a few things right. Also, I would have to think that you're pretty ignorant if you think that Newburgh, IN and Philadelphia have the same climate, soils, turf, tree issues, etc....Different property have different needs. The fact that he may be 100 miles away could be enough difference?
  I dont know why you're trying to drag this guy in the ground, still after so many years? What are you trying to gain?

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm only complimenting the man for not ruining his new course with fans. It takes a bigger man than me to not make the same mistake twice. I will no more expect a fellow super to disparage fans than I would a 53 yr old fat man to come out against Viagra. They both make our lives easier with the only difference being the fat man doesn't go from town to town sticking his dick where it isn't wanted.  Fans, like Viagra, are nothing but a crutch for those who fear their natural talent can't seal the deal.  

[Tom Jefferson]

".....to produce the conditions that golfers are expecting."

I believe that quote of Tony Nysse says all that needs to be said.....we superintendents are simply responding to the demands.

Beautiful fall weather here on the coast of Oregon.

Tom

[John Kavanaugh]

".....to produce the conditions that golfers are expecting."

I believe that quote of Tony Nysse says all that needs to be said.....we superintendents are simply responding to the demands.

Beautiful fall weather here on the coast of Oregon.

Tom

Tom,

I expect more from a man who has consistantly given golfers what they need. No one demands anything else at Bandon.

[Tom Jefferson]

Well, we do have TURF FANS here at Bandon......namely the Pacific Ocean! and it's temperate winds.....to counteract the 60 degree F highs here!  My sympathies, respect, and prayers go out to all the game's superintendents (such as Anthony Nysse), who stick their A....es out to produce incredible playing conditions, and to meet the desires of all that play this incredible game.

Including you, John!

ps....When are you coming back out here?

[John Kavanaugh]

Well, we do have TURF FANS here at Bandon......namely the Pacific Ocean! and it's temperate winds.....to counteract the 60 degree F highs here!  My sympathies, respect, and prayers go out to all the game's superintendents (such as Anthony Nysse), who stick their A....es out to produce incredible playing conditions, and to meet the desires of all that play this incredible game.

Including you, John!

ps....When are you coming back out here?

Thanks for asking but I don't see myself ever returning to Bandon.

[Jon Wiggett]

".....to produce the conditions that golfers are expecting."

I believe that quote of Tony Nysse says all that needs to be said.....we superintendents are simply responding to the demands.

Beautiful fall weather here on the coast of Oregon.

Tom

and the people want what the advertisers say they need

nice morning here in the Highlands.

Jon

[Mike_Young]

They may not be OBsolete but they will remain OBnoxious.

[John Kavanaugh]

We've hit bottom when only the most perfect climates like Bandon can grow grass naturally. Golfers will no longer accept the lie that they asked for this. We may be stupid but when your greens become louder than your car you realize something ain't right.

[Anthony_Nysse]

John,
  If you're okay with putting on dirt, the turf fans will come down. I don't think many golfers will appreciate that. The heights of cuts and expectations have changed WAY TOO much in the last 20 years to make comments along the lines of "never used to need fans." Keep in mind, many courses still have the same grass on their greens when they used to be mowed at 3/16 or even 1/4" of an inch. (Pine Valley, Winged Foot, Oakmont, Merion) Now, many courses are mowing at .080-.100" of an inch. That along is greatly increasing the stress to the plant. Why do you think so many alternate mowing/rolling during the hottest, most humid times of the year? To leaf some more leaf tissue for the plant.
  John, and I hope that you now this-Bandon has fescue greens...located on the pacific ocean. You don't think that's greatly different than bentgrass at Victoria? Bandon's high temps for the year are 68-70, average with lows in the 40-50's. Vic AVERAGES 92 degrees for over 8 weeks out of the year with lows in the low 70's? You're foolish is you continue to compare the two. Philadelphia averages 2 months in the mid to high 80's with night time lows at 70...on poa greens.
 In Fort Worth, we AVERAGED 4 months with the highs in the 90's and 2 of those months AVERAGE 95+ and stagnant. John, please tell us what we (Superintendents) are doing wrong and how you'd fix it, other than just taking the fans down and dirt to putt on.

I would MUCH rather have the following noise than putt on dirt.

John, do you have A/C in your vehicle? When do you tend to turn it on and what is your reasoning?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5yzCoETwAY

[Matt Wharton]

This is a topic best not visited simply because we agree to disagree.  The superintendents on here know just how truly valuable turf fans are in enabling them to not only keep bentgrass greens alive, but provide the quality conditions golfers want (or in some cases demand) during the most trying of climatic conditions (heat PLUS humidity).  Certain golfers on here do not know jack squat about growing grass and wish the game was still played with hickory shafts and fairways were mowed with sheep.  

Golf is a global game played on a myriad of grasses, in a myriad of climates.  The Transition Zone of the U.S. is known as one of the most difficult and challenging environments for golf course superintendents because there is not a single grass best suited for that environment.  The newer ultra-dwarf bermudagrasses are certainly making headway as many courses convert their bentgrass greens to the newer bermudagrasses.  In this instance fans are no longer needed because bermudagrass is a C4 plant and C4 plants are better adapted to survive in hot, humid environments than C3 plants (bentgrass).    

I have 8 fans at Carolina Golf Club.  When we renovated the golf course in 2008 we attempted to manage with only 2 fans at first (against my better judgment) and others were quickly added over the next two years.  All 8 greens with fans are located on the perimeter of the property, and it's the tree buffer along this perimeter which contributes to the poor air circulation associated with these putting green sites.  Several other courses in Charlotte have fans on each green (Charlotte CC, Myers Park CC, and Carmel CC South Course).  In the worst of summers (namely 2010 and 2011) my greens with fans were noticeably better than ones without despite the lack of trees, etc. associated with the other putting green sites.  When it is hot and humid, with little to no breeze, even the most open of putting green sites suffers from lack of air circulation.  Those of you who wish to think me and my peers are lazy, I invite you to come and work with me and my staff for a day during July or August, and you can witness first hand just how lazy we are.