Olympia Fields South - A Non-Photo Tour

[Mark Smolens]

I for one enjoy stopping for a cold beverage after, yet again, screwing the pooch on my approach into the 7th green. For some reason, whether I'm coming in from 170 (don't ask) or 70 yards, I am invariably above the pin with a frigging putt that breaks 2'. Some day I hope to keep it below that pin prior to my first putt.

[Paul OConnor]

10 – 510 par 4/5

Depending on which tee you choose, this is either a par 4 or 5.  I am usually playing the blues, so it’s a short par 5.  As I mentioned earlier, I like to play this hole right after 7 and save the goofy walk over to 8/9 and back, so I get back to back par 5’s.  One is usually downwind, and the other into the wind.  The drive sets up for a long draw down the right half of the fairway, where a huge stand of oaks protects the right side which rises up back to the 7th fairway.  If you can really bomb one here, the ball will kick forward and left off the right side hill and leave only a long iron into this elevated green. 

The creek, again, winds its way down the left side of this hole, and then crosses the fairway at about 150 out.  With any decent drive, the creek doesn’t really come into play unless you just cold top your second, and you’re hitting 3 wood or hybrid into this green, so it might happen.  I have pulled more than my share of tee balls here into the creek, which seems ridiculous as the fairway is huge, but so it is.  I’ve also hit them so bad left that they go over the creek, and I’m forced to play my second left of the creek over towards the right side of the 17th green.  It’s actually not that bad a voyage.  A hard low hybrid usually gets that done, and then a wedge up and over the 50 foot oaks and away you go. 

 The green is elevated at the top of a little hill, and there is a bit of a ramp on the right half of the approach which will let the ball bounce up onto the green.  The left half of the approach is not so generous, as the slope is just a little too steep, and generally the ball will hit here and roll a few yards back to a little bowl just a few yards short, or sometimes all the way back down the slope 15-20 yards.  These little pitches to a green over your head can be tricky to a front pin, where balls pitched short end up right where they started.

This is a pretty big green, and its back to front slope really gets going the closer one gets to the front of the green.  As usual, long of the green to a back pin is tough to get close. 

This is usually a pretty easy hole, unless you do something really stupid, so I’ve got plenty of birdies and a couple eagles here.  Making anything more than par is frustrating for such a simple hole, but happens too often.   As a par four, this is a real brute.  For kids hitting it 320 straight, it’s just another driver seven iron par four. 

[Andrew Buck]

10 – 510 par 4/5


  I have pulled more than my share of tee balls here into the creek, which seems ridiculous as the fairway is huge, but so it is.  I’ve also hit them so bad left that they go over the creek, and I’m forced to play my second left of the creek over towards the right side of the 17th green.  It’s actually not that bad a voyage.  A hard low hybrid usually gets that done, and then a wedge up and over the 50 foot oaks and away you go. 

 

It's odd you say this, because for me I think this is the toughest most intimidating drive on the property, either course, followed closely by 12N.  For some reason with the forest right and creek left I can't see the wide fairway.  

[Terry Lavin]

A great, shortish par-5 with a most impressive greensite atop a knoll.  Thankfully the club has resisted the urge to make this a killer long par-4 hole by moving the tee up and make the creek come into play off the tee.  Not to say that such a hole would not be a challenge, but this hole is really special.  As noted, this is a tough driving hole, principally because the creek sits uninvitingly on the left and there is a large, treed hillside on the right.  The best play for me is a running hook down the right side, followed by a shot to carry the creek and a sand wedge to a makeable spot on this fun and challenging green.  A big hitter should have a reasonable shot at making the green in two shots, but there is all manner of peril around this green. Over the years, some significant tree removal behind this green has aided turf growth without causing any injury to the wooded nature of the backdrop.  This is another great stretch of the golf course, with 10-13 being very solid holes before we get to a couple shortish par-4's that might draw some controversial chatter.

[Sven Nilsen]

Hole 10 (Par 5) - 500/500/478

The Drive - From a raised tee box adjacent to the halfway house, the hole stretches southward flanked on the right by a line of trees and on the left by Butterfield Creek and an assortment of additional trees growing from its banks.  The creek reappears at the 340 mark to cut across the hole.  The fairway itself sits on the right side of the open area, with a 20 or 30 yard area of rough extending from the creek on the left.  On the right side the hillside flowing from the 7th fairway can be in play, with an open area in the treeline culminating in a particularly nasty copse of trees replete with longer grasses.  Although the contours on the right edge of the fairway may feed balls back towards the middle, any ball that bounds through or doesn't get the expected kick off the hillside is going to be in jail.  The fairway itself starts to turn slightly towards the left, so a draw down the right side is a great play, as the ball tends to run out a good bit on the turf here.  Get too far left and your second may be blocked out by one of two trees standing sentinel on that side.  The rough tends to hold balls up that are leaking left, although a good pull will most likely find the water.

The Layup/Approach - If you've found the fairway, you're mostly likely going to be in range to have a go at the green.  The optimal line in is on the right third of the green entrance, using the contours around a mound on that corner to feed balls back to the middle.  This right side is the easier of the two negotiate with a longer running ball, as the false front here is less severe.  The further left you are in the fairway or rough, the worse the angle to attack the green, and the more you bring in to play a definite no go zone where the Creek has started to turn up the right side after crossing the hole.  Often the play will be to back off to 100 yards or so in, which takes the bunkers on the left out of play and leaves the easiest approach into the green (left, long and right are no fun, and anything just short leaves a tough pitch).  If your drive has found the trees on the right, you'll be lucky to have a line to punch out short of the creek, leaving one 160 to 180 yards in.  As Paul mentioned, if your drive has strayed way left over the creek, you have the option of playing up past an area of marsh and reeds to an open area near the 17th green, which will leave a wedge of short iron in.  The same option is available from the fairway side of the creek if your second shot is obscured.

The Green - A 36 yard long and wide circle, this massive green is raised above the level of the fairway, and is protected by bunkers short left and a false front that will send balls 10 to 15 yards back down off of the front on that side.  The green slopes from back to front, with a backstop similar to that found at the first coming into play before it falls away off of the back.  There's a small depression past the front right corner mound which can be hard to get close to and can lead to a ball running off of the right side.  Beware of your speed on any front to back or back to front putts, while putts across the axis will generally have a good deal of break.  Pins on the left side are particularly tricky, as the slopes of the false front continue onto the green surface.

Notes - The hole is often played as a long par 4 in competition, with the tees moved up to the 460 or 480 range.  It makes for a fairly tough long uphill approach, especially into the wind.  I like this configuration, as the size of the green is such that it is not so hard a target to hit from distance.  As a par 5, birdie is possible from just about anywhere.  For the majority of short hitters, the creek is still a factor on the second shot.  The 10th is a prime example of how the meandering nature of Butterfield Creek is used to great effect.  Much like the 14th on the North Course, the creek frames the boundaries of the fairway, and provides a slight nagging effect for any second shot that has to be played over it.  The subtle turn back towards the green on the right side is reminiscent of similar turns at the 2nd, 6th and 9th holes, features that can further befuddle the questioning golfer.

Summary - While not quite  a 4 1/2 par, the 10th is a great match play hole as anything from 3 to X is a possibility.  Depending on where your opponent has ended up, going for the green in two may not be the prudent play, although it certainly will look doable.  The most common miss from the tee is to the right, and although everyone hopes their ball is going to curve back off of the hillside, it rarely does.  The 10th is another hole that does not require any fairway bunkering to provide interest, although the first bunker left of the green is placed well short of the start of the green, creating a bit of deception to the eye as to where the green actually lies.

[Paul OConnor]

"On the right side the hillside flowing from the 7th fairway can be in play, with an open area in the treeline culminating in a particularly nasty copse of trees replete with longer grasses."

Sven,

I think this presentation with the longer grass right on that hill has only been for the last year or two.  I don't remember the grass in that area always being so long, I mean it's like a foot long in there.  If you're there, the punch shot out short of the creek is hard enough through all those trees, being submerged in all that crazy long grass is really unnecessary.  Not sure why it is that way, I can't think of another place on the course that resembles this condition.  

I play with a couple guys who, unless their drive is really out there, are always pulling less club to take the greenside bunkers out of play.  The shot up from 70-80 yards is just so much easier than just about anything else, the shot up and out of those bunkers is pretty hard, and as you say, left right or long all are pretty bad spots.  

[Sven Nilsen]

Hole 11 (Par 4) - (345/331/331)

The Drive - This is the "What Am I Looking At" hole on the South Course.  Nearly a football field's width of open area is viewed from the tee, with a lone tree standing in what would appear to be the ideal line to the green.  The tree, and a newly added bunker just beyond it, serve to bisect the fairway demanding a choice be made on the tee.  On the left side, the treeline runs away from the golfer, with the fairway culminating in a diagonally place bunker around 240 yards out.  On the right, the creek once again makes an appearance, running up the right side before turning left and cutting across the hole around 70 yards short of the green.  A fairway bunker guards the right fairway, and must be carried if trying to attack that side.  Although the left fairway is on the shorter line, approaches from this side will have to deal with a bunker short right of the green.  If played to the left, the shot is a 220-230 yarder aimed at the shelter abutting the 16th tee in the distance.  For those going for the green, there's a stretch of fairway on the far side of the creek starting around 275 yards from the back tees that can be used to bounce balls on.

The Approach - The lima bean shaped green wraps around a bunker on the right side, and is angled slightly from left to right.  Unless you've tried to drive the green, the approach is most likely going to be with a wedge or short iron.  The green once again has a bit of a false front, before falling away towards a bowl like area at the back right.  The contours of the bowl can be used to shape shots in towards a back pin, although anything to far left or long will leave a tricky recovery.  If the pin is placed just past the ridge of the false front, it'll take a precise shot to stay close.

The Green - Rising over the false front and then sweeping around the bunker to the back left bowl, the relatively smaller green can be a devil to putt.  While pins are rarely placed on the front third of the green, the bowl-like contours at the back create plenty of interest.  The general left to right slope of the green has a heavy influence, leading to many putts cutting across the front of the hole, although putts over the top of the false front roll straighter than they look.

Notes - From the tee, if the pin is sitting to the right of the greenside bunker the play is generally out to the left of the tree to open up the green.  The left side is the safer play in most cases, as it takes the creek out of play.  That being said, if you do find the right section of fairway, the green opens up a bit for pins on the left side.  The club sometimes will use a shorter set of tees in the 270 range to entice players to take on the carry, with shots ending up left and short of the green often being in better shape than anything right or long.

Summary - There are golfers who play this hole the same way every time, and there are others who will work backwards from where the pin is to set up their strategy for the day.  I find the best approach is to figure out what tee shot provides the most comfort, and then attack the hole from there.  On a course that offers distinctive looks on every hole, the 11th may stand out as the most memorable of the bunch.

[Sven Nilsen]

"On the right side the hillside flowing from the 7th fairway can be in play, with an open area in the treeline culminating in a particularly nasty copse of trees replete with longer grasses."

Sven,

I think this presentation with the longer grass right on that hill has only been for the last year or two.  I don't remember the grass in that area always being so long, I mean it's like a foot long in there.  If you're there, the punch shot out short of the creek is hard enough through all those trees, being submerged in all that crazy long grass is really unnecessary.  Not sure why it is that way, I can't think of another place on the course that resembles this condition.  

I play with a couple guys who, unless their drive is really out there, are always pulling less club to take the greenside bunkers out of play.  The shot up from 70-80 yards is just so much easier than just about anything else, the shot up and out of those bunkers is pretty hard, and as you say, left right or long all are pretty bad spots.  

Paul:

Agreed on the grass on the hillside, its overly punitive and a pain in the ass for finding tee shots over there.  That area also seems to collect is fair share of downed branches, which create their own issues.

My guess is the idea was to prevent balls from running out in that area, and to punish the drive missed to the right (although the punishment for a slight miss on this side is harsher than many other more extreme misses on this hole).

The fairway at the 10th is intimidating, but I'd agree that it is wider than it looks.  I think the back into the wind nature of the drive makes it play tougher, as does the looming influence of the creek on the left.

Sven

[C. Squier]

11 joins number 6 as my favorite two holes on the entire property. Just fantastic short par 4's.

[Paul OConnor]

11 – 330 yds Blue tee

For me on 11, the wind is almost more of a determinant of line than the pin.  If the wind is in my
face from the south, I will always hit driver left of the bunker.  My real play is to aim at the furthest left branch of the tree and try to hit it with just a little draw.  One of three things will generally happen; I’ll hit it as intended and will be left with 70-90 yards in just left of the bunker, in perfect position for nearly any pin; or I’ll pull it left, not too bad as there is a lot of room over there, so unless it’s a pull-hook, I’m generally still in play; or I’ll block the drive high right, in which case I’ll probably end up 120 out in the right fairway.  If that last one goes full-banana, well probably it ends up in the creek.  So downwind, I’ll usually try to hit a little hook hybrid over the right bunker, leaving 110 yards in.  Really, even in the bunker, anywhere between the creek and the gravel road and you’ve got some kind of wedge into the green.   

[Paul OConnor]

11 joins number 6 as my favorite two holes on the entire property. Just fantastic short par 4's.

Wow.  Some statement there.  Two of the shortest holes on a property stuffed with great holes.  
I think you just like them because you birdie them all the time.  

[Paul OConnor]

This is an interesting area of the course, as the old layout had three different greens all in this area.  It almost seems like the original 11th green was over closer to the Kitchen just to the right of the 6th green.  Also, from the view of the old aerials, it looks like the creek used to push much further out in the fairway here before it then ran back more in front of the current 7th tee than it does today.  The creek is now essentially straight down the right side of 11 until the bridge on 10.

It seems that the old 7th hole on the #2 course was a short par three whose green was wedged between the 15th green and the 16th tee box.  I guess the tee was over by that huge house that has been unfinished and unoccupied for at least the last 7 years, just over the corner of the OB fence.  I’m not sure if the current 15th green is this old 7th hole’s green or not.  Anyway, there was a lot going on right in this little area where the creek came into play on a bunch of holes.

[Sven Nilsen]

Paul:

Here's the companion photo for the aerial posted above.  Not only does it show the old 5th and 6th holes on the South Course at the bottom left, but the depiction of the area around 11, 12, 15 and 16 is clearer.



I may try to put together my best guess at the routing of the three courses based off of the two aerials.

Sven

[Andrew Buck]

Sven,

That is a really cool aerial photo.  I find it interesting that the creek on #3 looks to slide to the right of the old hole, meaning at some point it was routed into play.  

The middle course looks really fun out in the great wide open, too bad it had to be lost.

[Sven Nilsen]

Hole 12 (Par 3) - 212/200/170

The Tee Shot - Just off of the 11th green lies a convergence of tee boxes, with those for the 16th green extending towards the East and the descending boxes for the 12th going South (the 15th green lies within the corner created by these tees).  The 12th tees align the player with a green perched at the top of a sharp hillside which starts 40 or so yards on the other side of Butterfield Creek.  Fairway grass rises to the green entrance, with a hint of a false front and the front edge obscuring the bottom of the pin.  Bunkers ring the left and back of the green, sitting comfortably in a series of mounds that blend into the higher area behind the green.  On the front right, a fairly deep bunker angles across that corner sitting well below the surface of the green.  The tee shot is going to play longer than the yardage, and any ball that doesn't travel far enough past the false front is going to roll all the way back down to the flat area below the hillside.  Shots that are just off line just might catch a favorable bounce or find one of the greenside bunkers, anything way left or right will run away from the green and will leave the player with a tough uphill recovery shot with some trees to be negotiated.  The back to front slope of the green will help to hold tee shots, but finding the right quadrant of the green is a difficult imperative.

The Green - Befitting a long par 3, the 36 yard long green on the 12th is fairly benign when compared to many of its neighbors.  However, the back to front slope will befuddle many players, especially those that have overcooked a putt towards a front pin.  There's a subtle right to left break on the green, and any putt from one side to the other is going to move hard towards the front.  If you've found one of the bunkers, recoveries to the back and middle are fairly routine.  But if the pin is up front, the play is to favor the high side to help in both holding the green and accounting for the inevitable break towards the front (and possibly off the green and down to the flat).

Notes - The hole can be played from the back tees of the 16th, which stretches it out to a stern 230 yards.  If you find yourself playing your second shot from the bottom of the hill, it is critical to make sure your chip has enough to gain the surface, especially if it stopped on an uphill lie.  Many golfers will pull a 60 degree in this circumstance, where a lower lofted club will work just fine.  The perched green offers my favorite vista on the course.

Summary - A tough hole that should be included in the discussion of Best Inland Par 3's (or at least the subset thereof for holes that play uphill).  Club selection on the tee is key, and if the pin is up front or in the middle erring on the long side is the choice.

[Terry Lavin]

"The perched green offers my favorite vista on the course."

Agreed!  I took a senior USGA staffer out to the South course before the Smyers renovation to try to encourage them to host a championship on the South course.  I took him to this exact spot and he was gobsmacked by the view.  He said, "there are places on this course that make you think of Merion."  That cued the USGA violin music which metaphorically plays anytime a blue coat mentions the Holy Grail, Merion.  And I don't mean "Madam Librarrrrrrrrrrian."  

Cute story aside, this is a magnificent and demanding par three with a spectacular view of the South course.  I've always told people that the South course sits on better property than the North, which should come as no surprise since most of it used to be the #1 course.  It makes sense that the founders would utilize the most felicitous land to build the first course.  The North, on the other hand, was the fourth course built at Olympia and, even though it is a better course by most accounts, it is not the best land.  There are several holes (1, 2, 9, 10) on what looks like reclaimed farm land.  And there are two holes that are really sort of jammed together (4 and 5).  Those are all good holes and very well conceived holes that fit in a great routing, but the land is just so-so, especially when compared to the South, which only has two holes that seem sort of cramped (15 and 16).

[Sven Nilsen]

Terry:

High praise.  

Would you disagree with an earlier poster's contention that the land on the Back 9 of the North Course is the best and most dramatic parcel on the property?  

Sven  

[Terry Lavin]

Terry:

High praise.  

Would you disagree with an earlier poster's contention that the land on the Back 9 of the North Course is the best and most dramatic parcel on the property?  

Sven  

Would I disagree?  Only if I said it!  

Seriously, I think it would disagree only to the extent that a couple of the holes aren't all that dramatic.  10-12, for example are very good holes and well routed, principally because they get you to the connector hole (13) that gets you to the dramatic holes (14-16).  That stretch of 14-16 is certainly the most dramatic on the entire property.  As a nine-hole collection, I would think the front nine of the South would slightly edge out the back nine of the North.  But I think we're probably picking nits here.

[Sven Nilsen]

Is 15N dramatic from an elevation standpoint?

The impact of the ups and downs is compacted into a few holes on the North Course, while it is consistently spaced on the South Course.  Perhaps the effect is more dramatic where it appears on the North, but it is more of a factor throughout the South.  

I think the golfer should have more yardage adjustments on account of the elevation changes on more shots on the South than they will on the North.

[Ryan Kelly]

Sven, by my count, dramatic elevation change comes into play on 11 holes of the South course whether it be an elevated tee or second shot up a hill to a knoll or down a hill like the 3rd shot into 7.  I count 8 on the North.  The North has more holes with what I'll call gradual elevation change.  As you know 7N and 8N definitely play up hill as well as 13N, which most people don't take into account because it is gradual.  As it has been stated, South has more vistas.

[Paul OConnor]

12 – 212/200 - Black/Blue

This is a great hole.  Fantastic visually, lots of drama, death waiting left, shots short are coming all the way down to the bottom of the hill, lots of tough chips and pitches from around this green.  A front pin on a dry windy day makes this hole maybe the toughest par three on the property. I’ve seen good players hit the green past the flag, and then putt off the green all the way back down the hill.  Terry is right, the view back north from this green is sublime.

From the Clubhouse drawing, this was originally a 255 yard hole, which makes me wonder how much further back the green would have been.  The drawing shows the green left of the old 13th tee, which would put it back another 40 yards and left probably 25-30 yards from its current location.  I’m guessing this was a short par 4 back when the course was opened. 

[Terry Lavin]

Is 15N dramatic from an elevation standpoint?

The drama of 15N is supplied by the ravine-like falloff down to the creek which runs between the 14th and 15th fairway, about thirty feet below the 15th fairway.  Part of the "problem" here is that the visual drama is obscured by the trees that line the bank of the mini bluff.  When we were prepping for the 2003 US Open, Tom Meeks was able to convince me (and then our committee, then the Board) to cut down a dozen or so trees on 14 so that the fairway could be moved to put the creek more in play for an over faded tee shot.  I didn't have the necessary political will, so to speak, to build a consensus for cutting down most of the trees on the right side of 15 that hover over the creek.  But that was recommended by the USGA and I have always thought that it would dramatically improve the visual might of the natural feature of the ravine/creek view.  One of these days, perhaps, new leadership at the club will take up this tree battle.  For us, it wasn't the hill to fight and die on at that time, especially since we had already cut down in the neighborhood of 1000 trees during and after the renovation prior to the Open.

[Paul OConnor]

"...especially since we had already cut down in the neighborhood of 1000 trees during and after the renovation prior to the Open."

I think we should remove every tree on the North that is not an oak tree.  Probably another 1000. 

[Andrew Buck]

Is 15N dramatic from an elevation standpoint?

The drama of 15N is supplied by the ravine-like falloff down to the creek which runs between the 14th and 15th fairway, about thirty feet below the 15th fairway.  Part of the "problem" here is that the visual drama is obscured by the trees that line the bank of the mini bluff.  When we were prepping for the 2003 US Open, Tom Meeks was able to convince me (and then our committee, then the Board) to cut down a dozen or so trees on 14 so that the fairway could be moved to put the creek more in play for an over faded tee shot.  I didn't have the necessary political will, so to speak, to build a consensus for cutting down most of the trees on the right side of 15 that hover over the creek.  But that was recommended by the USGA and I have always thought that it would dramatically improve the visual might of the natural feature of the ravine/creek view.  One of these days, perhaps, new leadership at the club will take up this tree battle.  For us, it wasn't the hill to fight and die on at that time, especially since we had already cut down in the neighborhood of 1000 trees during and after the renovation prior to the Open.

Terry,

This is very interesting, thanks for the story.  I think 15N is a very good hole as a test of skill, but it's probably my least favorite on North, sitting right in the middle of a world class stretch of holes.  Now that you mention it, I think it is the visual of the tee shot that gives me that impression, as it feels like you are on a long flat tree-lined hole.  I can only imagine how opening up the cliff to the creek on the right could make it one of the most dramatic views of the property.  If memory serves, you'd probably need to remove about 50 - 100 trees to give it the proper visual drama, correct?

[Sven Nilsen]

Paul:

I believe the 12th was a par 4 at one point, and I've read a description of the green being placed in the area you described.  Makes one wonder how it would have played back then.

Andrew:

Not sure what purpose opening up the tree line on the right of 15N would serve, other than to expose players on 14 to being struck by an errant drive.  Its one spot on the course where trees serve a purpose other than comprising an area to avoid.  The treeline running down the left of the hole is one of the most picturesque features on the course, especially when viewed from the green.

There are areas on the Noth Course where the removal of trees would have a dramatic effect, including the portion of the course comprised of 1, 9, 10, 17 and 18.  Imagine having the area closest to the clubhouse play as one big open field.  I'd also like to see the creek restored that used to cross from 1 to 18 (you can still make out the subtle swale that runs across this portion of the property), but I'm pretty sure that would require some major work over by the railway line and thus is a near impossible dream.

Sven