What does your current ideal club look like?

[Rich Goodale]

I belong to my ideal club, and have so for 32+ years.

It has a modest clubhouse, but with spectacular views and an accomplished chef who can do everything from a simple hamburger to fine cuisine, all at a reasonable price, and with a smile.

There are two 18-hole courses, one of which is world renowned and the other funky but interesting and quiet enough to allow jumping in for a quick 6-9 holes at one's leisure.  Practice facilities (even though I rarely care to use them) are adequate, and the putting green is kept to speeds comparable to what one finds on the course(s).

There are enough local members to maintain the club's traditions and more than enough active non-local members to keep the club infused with a bit of buzz for 6 months of the year.  Winter days are short and often bleak, but the course is almost always open and highly playable in those times.  On the very rare days when snow covers the course, the single malts in the clubhouse encourage alternative entertainment.

The annual cost for golf at this club is roughly the same amount that I paid for one round at Pebble Beach 7 weeks ago.

Unfortunately, this club does not meet Mr. Dai's criterion #20, as it is 3 hours and 37 minutes from my house rather than his 10 minute ideal.

C'est la vie........

Other the other hand, my local club is 5 minutes walking distance from my house and has world class views and an interestingly funky 18-hole course, but.....

...even though the course plays along the water it is not built on sandy links soil and thus gets very soggy for 6-9 months of the year. And the membership is less local than intermittent, and the membership refuses to pay for adequate food and beverage service, so we are stuck with "All Day Breakfasts" and the occasional lasagne.  Annual dues are more than those at my "ideal" club.

So why not move?  Well....kids in school, now living 30 minutes by train from a world-class city vs. living 4 hours and 7 minutes from a world class city and disrupting my children's life?  Not for the next year or so, but maybe then....

[Brent Hutto]

A wise person once told me if I had to think twice about the initiation and dues ... then you have no business joining.

With respect, Patrick, let me suggest that rather than "wisdom" the comment represents elitist nonsense. If my club had only members wealthy enough that initiation and dues were inconsequential then we wouldn't have a club at all. Probably single digits at best.

[Chris DeToro]

I'm 30, live in a very small, not very nice midwestern town which somehow has a gem of a golf course which is actually pretty close to my ideal club, just probably not ideal in the sense of where I have to live to enjoy it.  Dues are modest, there are no tee times, and it's a classic old style course which many feel is very underrated.  I like that we don't have tee times, but sometimes wish we had more members so there were simply more people to play with, but we have a small, but strong core of good players and good people

[Dan Kelly]

I belong to my ideal club, and have so for 32+ years.

It has a modest clubhouse, but with spectacular views and an accomplished chef who can do everything from a simple hamburger to fine cuisine, all at a reasonable price, and with a smile.

There are two 18-hole courses, one of which is world renowned and the other funky but interesting and quiet enough to allow jumping in for a quick 6-9 holes at one's leisure.  Practice facilities (even though I rarely care to use them) are adequate, and the putting green is kept to speeds comparable to what one finds on the course(s).

There are enough local members to maintain the club's traditions and more than enough active non-local members to keep the club infused with a bit of buzz for 6 months of the year.  Winter days are short and often bleak, but the course is almost always open and highly playable in those times.  On the very rare days when snow covers the course, the single malts in the clubhouse encourage alternative entertainment.

The annual cost for golf at this club is roughly the same amount that I paid for one round at Pebble Beach 7 weeks ago.

Rich --

Can you begin to imagine how envious you just made all of us who live in northern climes where year-long play is impossible, and where almost every course worth playing will be closed for the next 18 weeks (if we're lucky)?

Of course you can! That's certainly one of the pleasures of belonging to Dornoch -- no?

Those kids do complicate things, don't they...

Dan

[Mike Hendren]

Nine holes
Designed by a "name" architect
Two sets of tees
Smallish greens, generally pushed up
11 total bunkers
No range - 300 yards practice field where you shag your own
3 par threes, leaving only 6 fairways to maintain
Fairways cut  Tues. and Fri. only
Greens and holes cut every other day
Green-to-tee walks not to exceed 25 yards
No tee times
Yardages:
365/425
180/205
425/455
525/560
125/155
290/330
465/475
400/440
225/275
Short, redan and biarritz (front as fairway) if topo permits
At least one blind approach
3rd hole returns to start so players can start on 1 or 4
Visitors comped Mon. thru Thursday accompanied by member
Visitors pay $75 Fri. thru Sunday accompanied by member
Canned beer, soda's, waters in cooler with chit system
Free make-your-own coffee before 9 a.m.
Water coolers on 4th and 7th tees
In warm weather iced down towels in cooler on 1st tee
Clubhouse has 6 4-top tables with comfy chairs and four fabulous showers - staff of one.  four 4-tops on patio
Barbisol comb cannisters,Club-Man talcum, Aleve and sunscreen in wet area which includes steam room
Nuts and pretzels on the tables at 3 p.m.
Club sandwich is the only item on the menu with other choices by deduction only (i.e., BLT)
Wall-to-wall storefront glass facing the course.  No other windows - a simple entrance door, locked at sundown
No signage anywhere
Balls and gloves only available for sale.
Initiation fee is full payment of one years dues
Annual dues equal member's pro-rata share of previous year expenses plus 10%
Bob Huntley is an honorary member

[Patrick Kiser]

If you have to think twice statement really isn't to wise to me, sounds like a typical elitist who has tarnished the game of golf as a Rich sport.  

It is reality in most cases ... whether we like it or not.

Not saying it's right or not.  Just stating what is.

That's great you're able to find something "affordable" that covers all or most of the bases, but that would be the exception I would think.

[Rich Goodale]

I belong to my ideal club, and have so for 32+ years.

It has a modest clubhouse, but with spectacular views and an accomplished chef who can do everything from a simple hamburger to fine cuisine, all at a reasonable price, and with a smile.

There are two 18-hole courses, one of which is world renowned and the other funky but interesting and quiet enough to allow jumping in for a quick 6-9 holes at one's leisure.  Practice facilities (even though I rarely care to use them) are adequate, and the putting green is kept to speeds comparable to what one finds on the course(s).

There are enough local members to maintain the club's traditions and more than enough active non-local members to keep the club infused with a bit of buzz for 6 months of the year.  Winter days are short and often bleak, but the course is almost always open and highly playable in those times.  On the very rare days when snow covers the course, the single malts in the clubhouse encourage alternative entertainment.

The annual cost for golf at this club is roughly the same amount that I paid for one round at Pebble Beach 7 weeks ago.

Rich --

Can you begin to imagine how envious you just made all of us who live in northern climes where year-long play is impossible, and where almost every course worth playing will be closed for the next 18 weeks (if we're lucky)?

Of course you can! That's certainly one of the pleasures of belonging to Dornoch -- no?

Those kids do complicate things, don't they...

Dan

Yo Dan!

Even Aberdour is north of 54.40 or fight territory!  I see St. Paul is only 44.90.  Why don't you guys just get your own Gulf Stream and stop moaning?

Rich

[Patrick Kiser]

With respect, Patrick, let me suggest that rather than "wisdom" the comment represents elitist nonsense. If my club had only members wealthy enough that initiation and dues were inconsequential then we wouldn't have a club at all. Probably single digits at best.

Honestly, if anyone needs to "worry" about initiation and dues ... should one be joining a club?

Hence, my point I think is a fair one.  If you have to think about and be concerned about, one should probably not join.

I'd say you're making the assumption here that joining implies "wealth" and I don't believe I ever stated such.

[Dan Kelly]

Why don't you guys just get your own Gulf Stream and stop moaning?

Rich

If we didn't spend months moaning, we wouldn't recognize ourselves!

Dan

[Josh Tarble]

I believe I'm a member of my ideal club:

27 married, fortunate enough to be in position to be a member of the club

1)  Great course - this trumped most everything in my search
2) No tee times
3) Active members - multiple tournaments
4) Pool - my wife and I do like to enjoy the occasional (i.e. frequent) beverage poolside in the summer
5) Cost - has to make a little bit of sense financially

I only wish we had either better food or no food.  Only thing I need from food and beverage is the beverage and a cooler works for me.

[Brent Hutto]

Patrick,

I'd be curious as to your age. At my point in life, covering all the bases is defined entirely in terms of what is affordable. I choose not to have any bases that I can't afford to cover, if you see what I mean.

[BCowan]

..

[Patrick Kiser]

Patrick,

I'd be curious as to your age. At my point in life, covering all the bases is defined entirely in terms of what is affordable. I choose not to have any bases that I can't afford to cover, if you see what I mean.

And so you prove my point I think.  You wouldn't join somewhere you can't afford, which makes sense.

Same boat here.  What that's meant is ... to compromise or not.  I made the choice to not compromise and so that's meant I continue to play public golf along with the occasional "member for a day" thing.

In general what I'm seeing outlined by several as "ideal" vs. "affordable" are not necessarily in sync.  In Ben's case, he's been able to find that hidden gem.  I just don't see that as being the norm and thought I'd mention some realism might be in order given the current state of affairs.

Oh ya ... 45 these days.  

[Thomas Dai]

The membership (the owners) of my club in the UK have debated the appropriateness of joining/initiation fees numerous times over the years and we've kept with them.

A couple of reasons why - encourages long-term membership, less cut-n-run to some other club/course that is maybe annually less expensive - and fairness, we're a member owned club so those who've paid a joining/initiation fee in the past are (not surprisingly really) peeved at the idea of newcomers joining without paying a joining/initiation fee.

In the UK the joining/initiation fee would typically be in the region of one year's membership fee/dues. Many clubs these days have however, relaxed the payment of the joining/initiation fee from a once-off up-front payment to payment over a period of years, say 3,4 or 5 yrs.

Also, if you join the club at a young enough age, not just as a junior but also as what we call intermediate (sliding scale of fees up to age 30), you don't have to pay the joining/initiation fee, the assumption being that you've probably not got the money to pay it and that you're likely to be a full member of the club for many, many years so will over time make a significant financial contribution in any case. We''ll see how this second assumption works out in the long-term as it's to date not been in operation for that long a period.

All the best.

[Jim Sherma]

I must say that I am happy as well with my current club:

46 married with two kids 6 and 9 - At this point I am the only golfer but if the wife and kids don't make use of other aspects of the membership I would have a very difficult time justifying the entire expense based solely on my golf affliction

1a: Two very good courses of different styles and eras (was three up until a few weeks ago) plus an extra nine that is good for the kids and quick lunchtime holes - we have starting times but rarely has this been a binding constraint, having one less course could change this

1b: Good practice facility that is very close to my house and office

1c: Good reciprocity program with courses that I am excited to have ready access to

2: Reasonable cost that is a fixed cost thanks to the benevelent dictator of the Hershey trust - there are no committees, assessments or other events that are likely to impact my monthly cost other than what I eat and drink

3: Very family friendly atmosphere in the grill room and clubhouse as well as a great pool facility that we all make good use of (including off-season access to the hotel's amenities)

This works for me given my place in life. When I was younger I wanted a straight up golf club with low cost, good greens, cheap drinks and lots of action. I had that at a good public course that attracted and catered to a very good game. With a family, the country club aspect is very important to me so that I can have the family involved with my hobby.

[David Davis]

I'm definitely a member of my ideal club with a few exceptions:

- far below average restaurant. Really a shame, I even avoid it. So this should be improved which is a simple no brainer.
- lack of social life at the club. It's all about the golf which is fine, but the poor food drives people away and we just don't seem to get it. That's of course not the only reason, it has to do with the culture I believe. In any case it's something I miss but would have to change countries to change.
- the weather. Yes we can play year round, but you have to be tough to do it. Often between 35 and 45 degrees with winds and rain in the winter. It's a links so almost always playable, winter greens if it's freezing but that doesn't happen too often. Closes if it's snowing, luckily also not a regular occurrence.
- maybe then my ideal club would be my club but located in the south of Portugal or Spain or France.
- closer to my home, now it's 40 minutes. I'd like a 5 minute bike ride or 10 min or less walk. But then I'd get nothing else done.


Other characteristics:

I'm 23 (although it says 43 in my passport and on my birth certificate.) Living with girlfriend from Philly. Who wants to learn to play golf.
My club is not a great choice for a beginner or 8 hcp and up if you read other threads about it.
It's all about the golf, no "country" just pure die hard golfers every bit as tough as the Irish or Scottish at their best in pouring down rain and wind.
No tee times would be ideal. As would being able to just show up and get a friendly game. Not possible now. But that's also a cultural thing.

Dues are very inexpensive and the benefits are being able to play 7 other top courses in the country for about 40 USD. All in all the ideal situation.

[Jud_T]

D C,

Sorry to hear of your physical issues.  Getting older sucks.  But the issue with pool, tennis etc. is that unless your kid swims, plays tennis, squash or golf competitively, as you mentioned they're unlikely to get much use of these facilities, or only use them for a couple of years.  My kids' rowing and training schedule is year round.  So not only is he unlikely to play much golf, but my wife and I will play less as we're chauffeuring him to practice and workouts or traipsing around the country to regattas.  Essentially all kids' sports have become highly specialized and extremely competitive, leaving little time to frolic at the pool once they reach middle school.  It's great if your kid's focusing on golf, but of course the chances of getting a golf scholarship these days are slim to none.  One of my associates kids graduated as a plus 3 with access to the most exclusive clubs in the country and he was something like 400th in that year's national graduating class and could only get a partial scholarship to a mediocre D3 school...

[Sean_A]

1. Good to great course in good nick that I can walk.
2. Cheap dues, under £1000pa. Happy to take visitors to keep dues down.
3. Basic food with opportunity for dinner when matches/events take place.
4. Weekly competitions and throw-ups (don't wanna bring a game to the club every week)
5. Decent, modest clubhouse
6. Informal and not necessarily a golfy vibe
7. Club on sound financial ground

I think Sean has summed up my ideal requirements for me, although number 2) maybe not be that important if the club is 'right', but here are a few additions I'd like -

8 - at least 27-holes in total where the 9-hole course is also a good quality course
9 - top class short-game and putting practice facilities very close to the clubhouse
10 - free-draining soil, firm & fast conditioning, no deciduous trees (so no autumn leaves), low level water abstraction agreement
11 - member owned club but where the staff (not the committees) run the show
12 - not too many members (say circa 600)
13 - reasonably established club with some level of history (ie not a newbie)
14 - location allowing 12 months p/a golf (even if some months are a bit chilly)
15 - only golf (not a country club) and absolutely no weddings/christenings and the like!
16 - junior, senior, lady and incapacitated-golfer friendly
17 - has a entry/initiation fee but not a massive one
18 - no bar/food levy
19 - not surrounded by housing estates/industrial sites
20 - within a 10 minute drive of my home

Not much to ask really (sic).

I'll probably think of something else (and edit it into the above), but for now this list will do.

All the best

Thomasjavascript:void(0);

Although its 1:30 away, owned/run by members and has a bar levy, I am happy with my club.  Truth be told, I am hugely in favour of a bar levy.  We have £50 a year which is a waste of time.  I would be happy even as someone living 1:30 away to make it at least £200 per year.  I don't much see the point in havng members who can't at least buy a few pints a week at their club. If a member doesn't want to support the club even such a small amount, I have no time for him.

BCowan - I can take a wild stab at the name of your club
Ciao

[jeffwarne]

.  Truth be told, I am hugely in favour of a bar levy.  We have £50 a year which is a waste of time.  I would be happy even as someone living 1:30 away to make it at least £200 per year.  I don't much see the point in havng members who can't at least buy a few pints a week at their club. If a member doesn't want to support the club even such a small amount, I have no time for him.

Sean,
Is this not an incredibly slippery slope?
Why force a non drinker to pay $200 so you/I  can drink?
Why not another $200 so I can enjoy bowling?

Put it in the dues if it's so needed.
Why show false /forced revenues?

[Jud_T]

Jeff,

I agree.  Show me all the costs up front, whatever they are.  I don't want an extra grand or two in hidden fees for lockers, towels, range balls, caddie xmas fund, etc., etc.... If you're uncomfortable showing an all-in number then perhaps you should take a hard look in the mirror.

[Sean_A]

.  Truth be told, I am hugely in favour of a bar levy.  We have £50 a year which is a waste of time.  I would be happy even as someone living 1:30 away to make it at least £200 per year.  I don't much see the point in havng members who can't at least buy a few pints a week at their club. If a member doesn't want to support the club even such a small amount, I have no time for him.

Sean,
Is this not an incredibly slippery slope?
Why force a non drinker to pay $200 so you/I   can drink?
Why not another $200 so I can enjoy bowling?

Put it in the dues if it's so needed.
Why show false /forced revenues?

Hell Jeff, I rarely drink at my club, but I don't think its a slippery slope to go from 50 to 200.  Implementing the card system is expensive.  Plus, I think it helps with budgeting.  

You wanna bowl? Get a shirt and fake it - its cheaper and more fun. I used to wear bowling shirts all the time playing golf, but the Brits made me get shirts which tuck in - what a drag.  Matter of fact, my ideal club would allow bowling shorts on the property - #1 rule!


Ciao

[jeffwarne]

That's a really cool shirt.

With something like that I might actually bowl more (I suck for the record)
Now take away the bar at the bowling alley and I'm really going to have a problem .


Not a fan of clubhouse minimums anymore than pro shop minimums.

Get accurate numbers (subsidies don't provide accurate numbers), then decide what's important and what is needed and  put it in the dues.
How is "supporting the club" with a 200 pound minimum, any different than charging say 100 more in dues?(where the difference would be made up in actual revenue)
My club has a $150 minimum per month-used to be able to use it on golf stuff (green fees/cart).
Not anymore-now it's earmarked for food/beverage, but not on special event nights .
My favorite is seeing members do takeout on the last couple days of the month to "use" the minimum.

New lines on the monthly bill now- $75 capital spending fund-$40 house charge.
All seems a bit silly

[Sean_A]

If a cater, bar tender, food and drink are available, they must be paid for and I think it reasonable to expect a minimal contribution from every member.  I know some guys don't like to pay money up front, but a minimal amount like £200 per year is no hardship.  As I say, its a few pints a week - not much to ask of a member.  

For the record, I hate bowling, but spent far too much time hangin' round alleys as a kid.  What can I say, they served anybody.

Ciao    

[Ian Andrew]

How Old?
48
Where do you live?
Brantford, Ontario

What kind of policies would it have?
Equal access, family based, no tee times

What would I most want?
1. Some sort of introduction to golf for spouse – better if its club than me (save marriage)
2. Lessons or golf program for my 13 year old son
3. Maximum play limitations as part of club policy

What costs are you happy to pay?
$5,000  per year

Which costs do you want to skip?
I can only play 5-10 rounds a year maximum - I don’t want to pay an annual of $5,000 “just for golf” because I feel like I'm paying to subsidize the players who play 125 rounds

What social elements do you want?
Cooking classes, bridge, etc. (winter based)

What other recreational options should it have?
A pool is always helpful when you have kids...

[Matthew Lloyd]

Excellent question.

I'm 36, live in Los Angeles, certainly can't afford to join a club there but prefer to travel to golf anyway.

Most important factors for me:
(1) Golf only -- nothing else about a country club interests me in the slightest; growing up I wasn't allowed to spend time at my dad's country club, nor did I want to (despite the course being amazing); so definitely golf only
(2) No tee times or other red tape
(3) Remote location to avoid crowds and ensure fast play
(4) allow walking without having to take a caddy
(5) Basic food and snack options
(6) No cart snack service on the course, which I find annoying (even if the cart girls are hot)
(7) low initiation fee or flexibility on how to pay initiation fee over time
( allows unaccompanied guest play
(9) kid friendly (though i don't have kids, private clubs of any kind that aren't appealing to youths make me nervous -- kids are smarter than adults i've found as i get older)
(10) would be happy to pay any costs that maintain the quality of the course and the property

bonus points: if you're allowed to bring your dog if it's not crowded

as if it's not obvious from my checklist, i love the recent trend of remote and simple and low maintenance private clubs like kingsley, ballyneal et al.  i'm pretty sure this is the future of golf. or at least I hope it is.  

my main priority in the years ahead is to be able to treat golf trips as complete and total relaxation... aside from the stress caused by my poor play.  a lot of big city clubs just have way too much red tape for me.