[Sean_A]

Say you have a very tight circle of golfing mates (may be real or imaginary ) and want to recommend top 20 courses.  What are they and if you care to explain, why have you chosen them?

Ciao

[Greg Taylor]

That's one very open ended question....!

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

I did that for Jim Urbina a long, long time ago.  He might still have the list.

However, it's a tough question because it depends a lot on what you're assuming they have already seen, or already know about.  For example, I loved Kington, and would recommend it to a good friend ... but I wouldn't really say it was a higher priority than any of the courses I give 9's and 10's in The Confidential Guide.  So then we would be back to the usual suspects, instead of focusing on the hidden gems you intend this thread to focus on.

Crystal Downs was one of those hidden gems once.

[Sean_A]

Tom

Its true, I am digging for gems .

I was hoping that including 20 would encourage folks not to list courses which are quite similar even if individually great. 

My second thought

Lahinch
Old Town
St Enodoc
Prestwick
Merion
Kington
Sacred 9
North Berwick
Pennard
Ganton
Cruden Bay
TOC
Sandwich
Deal
Lakewood Shores Gailes
Perranporth
Cavendish
Alwoodley
Southerndown
Dornoch

Isn't that odd, I didn't get the impression you thought much of Kington except for the opening and closing scene.

Ciao

[Jason Thurman]

My good golf buddies don't need me to recommend courses they already know about. Focusing more on under-the-radar courses:

The Prairie Club, NE
Crystal Downs, MI (most of my friends know nothing about it)
Idle Hour, KY
Erin Hills, WI (under-the-radar for three more years)
Lawsonia, WI (overshadowed by WI's other "destination" courses)
Kingsley, MI
Blackwolf Run Meadow Valleys, WI (I think it gets overshadowed by the Straits and River, but I love the back nine)
The Trophy Club, IN
The Fort, IN
Harrison Hills, IN
ArborLinks, NE
Metairie CC, LA
Dark Horse, CA
Hidden Cove, KY
Dale Hollow, KY
Waveland, IA
Granville, OH
Woodland Hills, NE
Picadome, KY
Tournament Club of Iowa, IA

[Thomas Dai]

I'm thinking just UK&I here and also, so courses other than the usual suspects plus my personal favourite gems are included, no course is in the list that's held the men's or ladies Open/Amateur or the Ryder/Walker/Curtis Cups or a significant pro event, and with one exception (*), I don't think any of these have -

From north to south and then to Ireland, of which my knowledge is less -

Brora - cracking links, sheep and cattle
Golspie - a wee gem, three types of course in one round
Cruden Bay - once played never forgotten
Himalayas at St Andrews - pretty unique and great fun
Musselburgh Old* - to be played with hickories
North Berwick - play, observe, learn
Royal West Norfolk - yee olde
Beau Desert - heathland gem, better than gem in fact, and cheaper than famous west of London heathlands
Painswick - crazy quirk and more crazy quirk
Minchinhampton Old - yee olde, cattle and horses, to prove you don't need sand bunkers
Kington - top of the English golfing world, great greens, views west into Wales
Tadmarton Heath - lovely shortish, tight heathland, wonderful cakes and pies
Perranporth - once played, never forgotten
RND/Westward Ho! - yee olde, sheep and cattle
Askernish - how things used to be
Carne - serenity and tranquillity plus great golf all nearly at the end of the the world (well, ish!)
The Bann - great, shortish 9-hole links. I doubt you'll break par though!
Dooks - because loads of folks have repeatedly told me to go there

This is only 18 so I shall rest and ponder a little while longer.

All the best

[Tim_Weiman]

Thomas,

I am one of those who recommends Dooks. You don't go there for great "architecture". You go to enjoy being alive. Dooks does that as well as any golf venue I have ever seen.

That aside, I agree with Tom Doak. It is hard to recommend 20 courses because so much depends on what a person has already seen. The willingness and/or ability to travel also has a big impact.

[Steve Kline]

Jason - I'm surprised you didn't include Hyde Park.

[Jud_T]

Prestwick
Crystal Downs
Old Mac
Pacific Dunes
Ballybunion Old
Lahinch
Yale
Ballyneal
Shoreacres
Kingsley
Bandon Trails
Portmarnock
Rustic Canyon
Lawsonia
County Louth
Lost Dunes
Harrison Hills
University of Michigan
Old Elm
Belvedere


* TOC would have topped the list but now only gets honorable mention till I get back to see how much damage has actually been done...Other honorable mentions:  Black Sheep, Skokie, Glen View, Broadmoor (IN), The Mines, Tamarack (CT), Kankakee Elks, Talking Stick North, Briarwood, Spring Valley, Big Fish, Dunes Club, Chicago Golf, Ravisloe, Olympia Fields North, Riviera, Pinehurst #2 (need to see the reno), Pine Needles, The Island, Fishers Island, Legends Heathland, Carnoustie, Bob-O-Link, Exmoor, Flossmoor, Trophy Club, Westhampton, Onwentsia, Barona Creek

[Chris DeToro]

I agree with that sentiment of depending on ability/desire to travel.  I've played a lot of hidden gems in certain locales that I would more than recommend if you're already going to be in the area, but as far as making it a destination--I think that list has got to most certainly be your usual suspects, no?

[Mark Chaplin]

We won't travel so far so we'd play and ANYONE can play them.

Tandridge
Wildernese
Lamberhurst
The Nevill - 4 good honest parkland courses

Sunningdale Old and New
Worplesdon
West Sussex
Walton Heath Old
Swinley Forest
Hankley Common
Berkshire Red  - 8 top heaths

The Addington
Crowborough Beacon
Royal Ashdown Forest
Knole Park - 4 "others"

Royal Cinque Ports
Royal St George's
Rye
Littlestone - 4 top links

[Brian Finn]

Avoiding simply listing my personal top 20...instead focusing on courses where I had lots of fun, would play frequently if location allowed, and which offered variety.

Holston Hills
Lookout Mountain
Kirtland CC
Chechessee Creek
The Golf Club
Brookside CC
Rock Creek Cattle Co
Yale
Kingsley
Southampton GC
Portmarnock
Caledonia
Exmoor CC
Bethpage Red
Paramount CC
Moraine CC
Tobacco Road
Sleepy Hollow
Nassau CC
Mayfield CC

[Simon Holt]

Since most of us seem to have golfing friends that have seen some of the usual suspects.  The courses that would be fun little add ons; good fun, not too taxing, good atmosphere, memorable.

Goswick*
Dunbar*
The Glen
Luffness New*
Kilspindie*
Braid Hills
Elie*
The New Course*
Crail Balcomie*
Moray Old*
Brora*
Edzell
Monifieth
Scotscraig
Lundin
Portstewart*
The Valley Course, Portrush*

I know that's not 20 but I start to pop ones on the list for the sake of it after that.  I have a really good time playing at all these clubs, both on and off the course.  The ones with * are courses that I feel our international friends could slip into an itinerary and not feel like they had wasted their time.  The others would probably serve the same purpose but equally, some would turn their nose up.

On the US side, I've not really played any off the radar places.  Since its almost time for the end of year threads about the courses you have most enjoyed in 2013, Boston Golf Club is right up there as my biggest surprise.  I had not read much about it and enjoyed it immensely.

EDIT- add on the Scarlet course at OSU and the Weyhill at Saucon Valley.  Neither are world beaters by any stretch but both have good back-9s.

[Jason Thurman]

Jason - I'm surprised you didn't include Hyde Park.

I probably overthought whether it fits the terms of the list or not. It certainly belongs. I went on the rationale that no one is likely to turn down an invitation there as it is, but then the same could be said for Idle Hour so it's hard to justify leaving it out.

[Ronald Montesano]

like this group?

http://www.usga.org/news/2013/November/Rose-Relives-U-S--Open-Win-at-Merion/

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Is the question about "good golfers" that are mates, or "good mates" that we play golf with?  Because they can be very different.  For instance:

If it's the former, i'd put courses like Victoria National or Bellerive at the top of this list.  My friends that are good golfers really enjoy these courses, because i think the challenges are more geared towards them than a 12 hcp.

[Robert Emmons]

Creek Club
Piping Rock
Nassau
Huntington CC
Meadowbrook
Deepdale
Rockaway Hunt Club
Bethpage Red
Bethpage Black
Engineers
North Shore
Glen Head
Garden City Golf Club
St Georges
Friars Head
Sebonac
National Golf Links
Shinnecock Hills
North Fork
Montauk Downs...RHE

[Richard Choi]

Why would anybody NOT recommend their normal top 20 courses to their friends???

[Tim_Weiman]

Richard:

Travel is probably the biggest factor. I know a ton of people who simply can't travel to sample the world's best.

I am not going to even mention a place like Kingston Heath to folks here in Houston I play with. They  have never heard of such a place and have no intention of flying to Melbourne to see and play it.

[Brian Finn]

Why would anybody NOT recommend their normal top 20 courses to their friends???

That is the question I struggled with...not sure it came through in my response.  FWIW, I basically grabbed a handful of my personal top 20 that I considered particularly fun (my top 20 are not necessarily pure 'fun' to play, e.g. Bethpage Black) and perhaps a bit under the radar and supplemented them with a few that were a bit lower down on my list and were less recognized.  That was my basic, and perhaps flawed, understanding of the initial question.  Suppose I tried to delineate 'fun' vs. 'best.'  Really did not put a ton of thought into it, though.

[Josh Tarble]

This is going to be the ultimate homer post, but...

If you're just talking about a good golfing trip, Indianapolis on the whole is severely underrated.

3 really good privates:
Crooked Stick
Wolf Run
Broadmoor

5-6 really good publics:
The Trophy Club
The Fort
Brickyard Crossing
Purgatory
Heartland Crossing
Prairie View (this is probably my least favorite course on this list)

Toss in a few courses worth driving a few minutes:
Rock Hollow
Coyote Crossing
Kampen Course at Purdue
Harrison Hills

Sure, they won't dazzle anyone with views or top 100 status (I think both Wolf and the Stick are on the edge of a couple lists) but I guarantee you'll have 3-4 really good days of playing golf.  Most likely, far more affordable than somewhere else.  Plus some really good restaurants and under-rated brewery scene.

/end homer status

[Ronald Montesano]

Robert Emmons' list is the epitome of diversity...is there a course there off Long Island? What a problem to have.

[Tim Martin]

Robert Emmons' list is the epitome of diversity...is there a course there off Long Island? What a problem to have.

RoMo-That is LI only and there are a pile more to choose from.

[Richard Choi]

Richard:

Travel is probably the biggest factor. I know a ton of people who simply can't travel to sample the world's best.

I am not going to even mention a place like Kingston Heath to folks here in Houston I play with. They  have never heard of such a place and have no intention of flying to Melbourne to see and play it.

Then, wouldn't this just be a list of top 20 courses in my area?

[John Shimp]

In my area:
Palmetto  (can't believe not mentioned yet; such a fun and tricky scoring course)
Camden  ( Kris Spence did a great job; this course is so tough at 6500 yds its crazy)
Roaring Gap Club  (pure pleasure; back 9 is great with the rebuilt greens)
Chechessee  (really high quality place that seems to get more interesting the more I play)
Pinehurst 2  (I love the new look and how it plays)
MidPines  (redo to bermuda greens, etc by K. Franz has added 5 shots of difficulty and way more interest)
Old Town (mentioned already)

Recent trip:
Chicago Golf Club (get on anyway you can; all world)
Old Elm (terrific greens and club;  doing a lot of work right now)

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