"the greatest one-shot hole in inland golf"

[Philip Gawith]

Henry Longhurst was speaking of the 13th at The Addington and the full quote runs "With the exception of the 5th at Pine Valley, the greatest one-shot hole in inland golf."

As chance would have it i played both these holes over the last ten days and you can see why one might draw a likeness since they are of similar length (220-240 yards), have a similar aspect - both played over a valley to a distant, elevated green - and the tee shot on both is (apologies to Alex Ferguson) "squeaky-bum time".

Although the Addington hole is certainly very difficult i don't think it is quite as fearsome as the Pine Valley equivalent for a few reasons: the water at Pine Valley probably adds a slight edge of difficulty; the green at Pine Valley is much tougher with its back to front slope; and the penalty for missing the green is also a fair bit tougher at Pine Valley given all the sand, overhanging trees etc.

Interestingly, both these courses are celebrating their centenary this year. I wonder if being of similar vintage can explain at all some elements of similarity in design? Probably no classic course can match Pine Valley as an expression of "heroic" values, but with holes like 8,9,12,13 and 16 The Addington certainly comes closer than most.

Philip

[Joel_Stewart]

Another subjective post.  For those not familiar with the Addington, Ran has a nice profile on the course.

The 13th hole.

[Frank Pont]

Brancepeth Castle (Colt) par 3 hole 10 is pretty long and scary over a deep ravine.....

[Scott Warren]

Agree they are extremely similar. Which is more difficult? Whichever I am playing that day!

A similar thread from a couple of years back: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48870.0.html

Both holes play to about 230 yards. The land is extremely similar, dropping away quickly before climbing slowly to a green at more or less the level of the tee. Both holes are bunkered severely at either side of the green and feature steep, vicious putting surfaces that follow the general fall of the land (R-to-L at The Addington and L-to-R at Pine Valley.

A few more images to illustrate:

[Mark Pearce]

Frank,

I have always found 9 at Brancepeth to be the scarier of the back to back par 3s at Brancepeth.  10 is hard but 9 is the hole that can produce big numbers.

[Josh Stevens]

Was your question the greatest or the most bum puckering?  THese two seem to just be really hard and scary - does that make them great?

Probably a few at RM or KH you may want to throw in, but my fav is 5th at Mildenhall.  Scary without having to be hugely long or indeed needing any bunkers or water.

[Jon Wiggett]

I think you will have to go a long way before you beat Gibraltar at Moortown. Simply a magnificent challenge but playable for all standards.

Jon

[Philip Gawith]

"Another subjective post".

What a sniffy thing to say Joel! 99.9% of what appears on here is subjective  - including Ran's write-up that you approvingly quote - but happy to hear if you have discovered some objective standard you wish to share! Repeating the opinion of a distinguished golf author, comparing two memorable holes, is hardly the stuff of controversy.

Josh - there is no question on my part, just passing on the opinion, which appears in the Addington's centenary brochure. For what it is worth, they are both memorable holes in an uplifting sort of a way - as in, they stay in the memory, and you know that only a great shot will suffice - and that is probably a pretty good approximation of "greatness", and a standard that only a very few holes meet.

Incidentally, I think one way of capturing the difference is that while 3 is a difficult score on both holes, a reasonable golfer should be able to make bogey at Addington most times - not so Pine Valley, because even if you miss the green and recover, you still have an excellent chance of three-putting no matter how close you are to the flag.

[Mark Chaplin]

I'm not a great fan of long par 3s of which these are two great examples. However expectation is lower at 230yds, for me great examples are 10 at Pine Valley, 5 Royal Melbourne West & 5 Sunningdale New. On these holes you expect to hit the green and often do but the punishment for missing can be heavy.

[Matthew Mollica]

Is Royal Melbourne considered inland? Less than a mile separates the 5th West from the sands on Black Rock beach, and the waves of Port Phillip Bay. The soil is sandy, and the vegetation is coastal. When I think inland, I think of places like Pine Valley, Augusta, Oakmont, or Ellerston. Much heavier soil, and far greater distance from the brine.

[Tom_Doak]

I am working right now on an eclectic 18 for the UK and Ireland, as part of the first volume of The Confidential Guide.

This is certainly one of the holes under consideration, but it's got tough competition as there are so many great 13th holes -- the Pit at North Berwick, the par-5 at Silloth, Sea Hedrig at Prestwick, the wonderful short 4 at Lahinch, the short hole at Muirfield, etc.

When I saw the title of the thread [with no hole # attached], though, my first thought was #5 at Royal Worlington & Newmarket.

[Dan_Callahan]

The 9th at Yale is the best inland par3 I've ever seen.

[David Whitmer]

I would vote for either #5 at Royal Melbourne West or #12 at Augusta National.

[John Percival]

Scott, the overheads you provided are great.
Interesting that neither hole has fwd tees of note.
Having not played either (hope to correct that someday), it would seem another difficulty factor would be the shoulder at Addington is on the right, thus holding the predominant slice, while PV's right falls off into doom.

For those who have played PV, is the grass area short of the path a viable option for the faint of heart. After all, Casper layed up all four days at WF in the 59 Open and made 4 pars.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

 #5 on Sunningdale New came to mind for me as well Mark , but to me the New has one of the finest collection of 3 pars anywhere.

[Paul Nash]

10 at Sunny New is now a sublime hole after the tree clearance - as good as 5 - definitely 2 of the best short holes in the world. Another that deserves this honour is 7 at Hankley

[Thomas Dai]

How about the 6th at Painswick? Wasn't this also another Henry Longhurst favourite?
All the best

[Philip Gawith]

Thanks for the link back to your earlier thread Scott - great minds think alike! In your case an original thought.....

I don't really see too much likeness between Add 8 and PV 13; the drive at Addington is shorter and much more quirky, and the second shot also lacks the downward looking redan-style feature of 13, and is also  a lot shorter.

In passing, and picking up from your earlier thread - i actually don't think 1 or 3 are very good at Addington, but 7, 10,13 and 17 are four great short holes. I was also thinking that Addington's three par 5's probably trump the two at Pine Valley. All three are really good holes in very different ways. At PV, though it is sacrilege to say so i am not sure 7 is that great a hole - all things being relative of course. It basically asks one particular question - can you get a good enough drive away to carry Hell's Half Acre? 15 is a magnificent hole in an attritional sort of a way. Anyway, we digress...

John P - I don't think a lay-up short of the path at PV is viable. As i recall it is pretty thick rough. More to the point. If you laid up there, you would be in disgrace and i don't think your company would be tolerated for the rest of the round! It would be too egregious a violation of the ethos of the course.

As for some other examples cited - I agree that 5 and 10 at Sunny New and 7 at Hankley are fine holes, especially the first and last. But none of them strikes vaguely similar fear into your heart as 5 at PV.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

#5 at PV the scariest hole anywhere that I have played.
Great short par four, five iron  and a chip shot perfect to take the big number out of play.
Of course I have never played it that way, not smart enough.

[Phil Lipper]

I think its extremely difficult to top number 9 Yale, its a hole that can measure from 146 to 235 yards. The unique part of the hole is that shorter pin can be more difficult than the longer one. This is a hole that is 87 years old and modern technology has nothing to diminsh its strength.

[Scott Warren]

Philip,

In hindsight, I was reaching a bit too far with the PV13/Add8 comparison!

How is the conditioning of The Addington currently?

[Philip Gawith]

Overall quite good Scott considering the autumnal conditions/time of year. Some of the lower greens a bit spongy but the higher ones were firmer. we did not need to play winter rules with a few minor exceptions.

[mike_malone]

Is 5 at Pine Valley better than #3?

[John Percival]

Philip,
Thx for the PV info. For me, lay ups on a 3 par are not happening. Was inquiring for the player who may have made the loop back to the CH and been so thoroughly flogged that they would do anything to keep it in play.

A couple of nominees: 10 at Bel Air, over the massive/deep barranca and in VERY close proximity to the Men's Grill. And it's uphill!
                                and the 20th hole at St George's Hill.

Interesting note on Hankley...Laura and I played there some 10 years ago. While on 7 green, and this is no lie, a freakin' Harrier jet lifted off from just behind the trees. And lifted off means straight up and then off. It was like we were in a James Bond movie. Yeow!

[Philip Gawith]

I am not sure it is better Mayday, just scarier. Sadly my track record on both is rather modest. I seem to play 10 and 14 much better! But you make a good point - 3 is a fabulous hole, visually and to play with a wonderful and wicked green.

Philip