[A.G._Crockett]

I'm actually surprised an editor allowed this to be published.  

Agreed, 100%.  I would have thought the editor would have killed this out of hand, and maybe run it by somebody on the legal side of things as well.

If Woods is a cheat, he is THE most inept cheat in history, and Chamblee (and his editors) should have thought that over.  Penalty shots in every case, a missed cut in one, consulted with and took the advice of fellow competitors in two, and described it on TV in one.   And the 4th was for a 25' chip out of the woods?

C'mon, man...

[Michael Whitaker]

In my own mind I think that Tiger may well have  benefited from some previous calls by dubious rulings; however, so did a few other Major  winners.

I do believe that BC has shown much animus toward Tiger by constant criticism of his game and swing, even though he is running away with the tournament at hand.

I wonder how many breaches of the rules there are, among those players who are off TV most of the time?


Bob

I personally obverved Seve cheating at The Masters. It happens.

[JLahrman]

In my own mind I think that Tiger may well have  benefited from some previous calls by dubious rulings; however, so did a few other Major  winners.

I think there does have to be a line drawn between a dubious ruling, and a dubious action which has to be corrected by an official.

Someone mentioned the two Els incidents. I'm assuming the "grandstand drop" was actually the moveable/immovable obstruction controversy at the 1994 US Open? Trey Holland made a ruling that he fully admits was wrong. In Els' Masters incident, the rules official made a ruling that Els thought was wrong, so he escalated it to the chairman of the rules committee. The rulings may have been dubious, but they were made by a tournament official. While I'm not a fan of professional golfers calling in a rules official for every single potential infraction, Els took the responsibility off of his hands.

Woods didn't take that route in any of his rules controversies this year, so whether the rules were followed properly is his responsibility. For three of the four instances he had to be called into the tent afterwards to get penalties, and for the fourth he possibly should have. While the breaches were addressed, Woods definitely looked bad.

Again though, as of right now Chamblee is the one who looks even worse due to his excessively vituperative, personal attack.

[Michael Whitaker]

Seve hit his tee shot to the left of the 15th fairway (this was before all the new trees that are there now). When he approached his ball he took out a 3-wood and placed it behind the ball as if to see if the lie was to his liking for that club. Then he started taking the club away from the ball and putting it back repeatedly, each time adding a little pressure to the ground behind the ball. Several people standing nearby began whispering "that's cheating!" Once he had the ball in the clear of any grass behind it he switched to a long iron and attempted to hit a hook down the right side of the hole onto the green, missing on the right. It was clearly cheating in my book.

[Rich Goodale]

Seve hit his tee shot to the left of the 15th fairway (this was before all the new trees that are there now). When he approached his ball he took out a 3-wood and placed it behind the ball as if to see if the lie was to his liking for that club. Then he started taking the club away from the ball and putting it back repeatedly, each time adding a little pressure to the ground behind the ball. Several people standing nearby began whispering "that's cheating!" Once he had the ball in the clear of any grass behind it he switched to a long iron and attempted to hit a hook down the right side of the hole onto the green, missing on the right. It was clearly cheating in my book.

Thanks for that anecdote, Mike, as it is pure Seve.  Reminds me of old joke(?) where a player kept laying down his brassie behind the ball and kept asking the caddie if it was a "Brassie lie."  The caddie replied, "Eventually Sir, it will be."

[George Pazin]

Thanks for that anecdote, Mike, as it is pure Seve.  Reminds me of old joke(?) where a player kept laying down his brassie behind the ball and kept asking the caddie if it was a "Brassie lie."  The caddie replied, "Eventually Sir, it will be."

 

-----

Sadly, it seems in much - far too much, imho - of sports writing and tv/radio commenting these days, the MO seems to be to make outlandish, over the top statements, make a splash of oneself among others in the media, then "apologize" later for poor choice of words/poor timing/poorly worded humor/insert your own lame excuse here. Almost no media figure "pays" for these indiscretions, and they must believe it ups their own ratings or they would actually reflect and stop doing it.

So I don't think it would be accurate to call Brandel a moron - jackass, probably, not nearly as clever as he believes, definitely, but moron, no.

[Bob_Huntley]

I have never seen a pro cheat, that being said there is much to add to the lore of Gary Player and Rabbit at Royal Lytham in the Open of 1974. Then there was the dust up with Tom Watson in one of the silly post Tour gifts to the four Major winners.

I do remember the famous incident at Augusta where Seve was about to get relief from an unfortunate lie and Ken Green demurred. The referee agreed with Green.

The stangest goof of all had to have been at the Open Championship at St. Andrews in 1957 with Booby Locke . You can look it up and see that sometimes common sense prevails.

Bob

[Jim_Coleman]

    I am personally of the opinion Tiger has cheated, and has been caught.  Not surprisingly, he hasn't admitted to it.  None ever do.  I also believe he has taken PED's, but will not admit to it.  The PED evidence is circumstantial; the cheating evidence is eye witness.  I also believe that one's behavior in golf is often a window into one's overall character.  We are in the unusual situation here where he was caught red handed in his overall behavior, which is the only reason he cannot deny it.  At least Chamblee agrees with me.  I suspect many in the golf world are reluctant to chime in out of intimidation.  So, I admire Chamblee.

[Carl Nichols]

I agree with Chamblee's opinion, especially with respect to Tiger's most recent issue (where the ball moved when he pulled the debris out from around it).  But I also think Chamblee is an arrogant bore. 

[Jud_T]

Wonder what this guy thinks of Tiger bashing:

[Jim_Kennedy]

We're all free to believe whatever we want, but it seems pretty clear to me that if anyone with any golf chops felt the same way as Shambles they would not have left him out on the limb by himself.

I cannot think of any noteworthy person who has ever called Tiger a cheat, and if I've missed someone, that person surely hasn't made any ruckus with anyone who could do something about it.  




 

[A.G._Crockett]

   I am personally of the opinion Tiger has cheated, and has been caught.  Not surprisingly, he hasn't admitted to it.  None ever do.  I also believe he has taken PED's, but will not admit to it.  The PED evidence is circumstantial; the cheating evidence is eye witness.  I also believe that one's behavior in golf is often a window into one's overall character.  We are in the unusual situation here where he was caught red handed in his overall behavior, which is the only reason he cannot deny it.  At least Chamblee agrees with me.  I suspect many in the golf world are reluctant to chime in out of intimidation.  So, I admire Chamblee.

Interesting post.

I curious as to two things:
   1. Which of the incidents this year was "cheating"?  (As distinguished from a Rules question and/or mistake.)

   2. What is the circumstantial evidence of PEDs use?

[Patrick_Mucci]

AG,

Some might consider the physique of a linebacker/cornerback as compared to a slender sinewy build as a good start.

Others might consider taking a six month hiatus for a simple stress fracture as another.

But, as you state, those could only be considered circumstantial  

[A.G._Crockett]

AG,

Some might consider the physique of a linebacker/cornerback as compared to a slender sinewy build as a good start.

Others might consider taking a six month hiatus for a simple stress fracture as another.

But, as you state, those could only be considered circumstantial  

Patrick,
Of course, I've wondered about the physique.  But looking at Earl Woods and reading about Tiger's workout routines, I'll give him a pass on that.  I weighed 145 when I got out of high school; I was 175 and fit 4 years later when I finished college.

As to the stress fracture, doesn't that roll into the end of the season and then the martial problems?  I could have my timeline wrong on that.

I will say this; if ANY person would cheat on his/spouse to the extent and with the complexity that Tiger did, then cheating a little at other simple things (gold, PED's) isn't much of a stretch to believe.  Character isn't a light switch that we turn on and off.  But that is a philosophical construct; it isn't evidence (even circumstantial) or probable cause.  Just suspicion.

And if he DOES cheat at golf, he's really, really good at it because he knows every move he makes is on camera.  None of the 4 incidents this year even come close to "cheating" in my book, though.

[Patrick_Mucci]

AG,

I NEVER implied that Tiger cheats at golf, I merely offered what some have commented on regarding his use of PED.

I can't imagine any PGA Tour Pro cheating on the golf course

[Jay Flemma]

Seve hit his tee shot to the left of the 15th fairway (this was before all the new trees that are there now). When he approached his ball he took out a 3-wood and placed it behind the ball as if to see if the lie was to his liking for that club. Then he started taking the club away from the ball and putting it back repeatedly, each time adding a little pressure to the ground behind the ball. Several people standing nearby began whispering "that's cheating!" Once he had the ball in the clear of any grass behind it he switched to a long iron and attempted to hit a hook down the right side of the hole onto the green, missing on the right. It was clearly cheating in my book.

Thanks for that anecdote, Mike, as it is pure Seve.  Reminds me of old joke(?) where a player kept laying down his brassie behind the ball and kept asking the caddie if it was a "Brassie lie."  The caddie replied, "Eventually Sir, it will be."

That's right out of the book Goldfinger:)  Th head pro is describing to Bond why Goldfinger is "hot", why no one else will play with him, and then tells Bond to watch him carefully...along with Bond's fl;at swing...great book.  Three chapters on St. George's!

[Tim Pitner]

Cink improving his lie during a playoff at Harbourtown and Montgomerie incorrectly replacing his ball in Asia are two of the most egregious incidents I've seen, the Monty situation particularly.  I believe his place in the Ryder Cup hung in the balance and his replacement of the ball wasn't even in the vicinity of where his ball was.  Disappointing--I enjoy his commentary.

[George Pazin]

AG,

Some might consider the physique of a linebacker/cornerback as compared to a slender sinewy build as a good start.

Others might consider taking a six month hiatus for a simple stress fracture as another.

But, as you state, those could only be considered circumstantial  

I guess some haven't seen today's PED enhanced linebackers and cornerbacks. Tiger is not as muscular as many NFL punters and placekickers. Seriously, go meet one.

These guys are good, but they are also not NFL material. None. Zero. Not even Tiger.

I'm 40 lbs heavier than I was in high school/college. Only maybe half of that is beer-related! The rest is muscle, and I'm just guessing Tiger works out a bit more than I...

[Jim_Coleman]

   The strongest circumstantial evidence re: PEDs is his choosing Dr. Galea for a routine blood plasma injection.  No reason for him to be consulting with someone known to be a PED bad guy.  Is this conclusive?  No.  Is it circumstantial?  I'd say so.

[Dwight Phelps]

I'll say this about PEDs (same as I always say when PEDs come up in any sport):

I'll try really hard to care (because purity! and sportsmanship! and whatever), but despite that effort, I won't really care at all. What is a Performance Enhancing Drug? Tylenol is a drug that enhances performance, no? Cortisone shots are at least an injection that enhances performance, no? What about caffeine? That's a drug that can certainly enhance performance. What about surgery and the multitude drugs used in that process in an effort to enhance performance?  Why are all these PEDs ok?

I don't care about PED use by professional athletes. If Tiger uses PEDs, his body will break down faster, his career will be shorter, and he'll pay for it in ways beyond stroke penalties.  His call and I don't care. But I'll try really hard.

[Jim Nugent]

  The strongest circumstantial evidence re: PEDs is his choosing Dr. Galea for a routine blood plasma injection.  No reason for him to be consulting with someone known to be a PED bad guy.  Is this conclusive?  No.  Is it circumstantial?  I'd say so.

Galea has had run-ins with the law, but I don't believe they were over PEDs.  Pretty sure he has never been charged or found guilty of dispensing or treating people with PEDs.  

In the meantime, Tiger did have good reason to consult with Galea, who is famous as a healing specialist.  

Dwight, the main reason to (maybe) be concerned about PEDs is that if top players use them, it puts pressure on others to do the same, if they want to compete.  They too have to sacrifice or at least risk their health, in the ways you point out in your post.  

[Jud_T]

Hasn't Tiger been one of the leading proponents of drug testing on tour?  I think a serious case could be made that Beta blockers and weed could be as much or more of an advantage than PEDs as it relates to golf.  I think if I had the yips with millions on the line over a couple of 3-footers I'd be very tempted to resort to anything that would help...  

[Jim_Coleman]

   Galea pled guilty to importing human growth hormones.  Yes, Tiger says he used Galea because he was a good doctor.  I suppose that ends the discussion.

[Dwight Phelps]

Dwight, the main reason to (maybe) be concerned about PEDs is that if top players use them, it puts pressure on others to do the same, if they want to compete.  They too have to sacrifice or at least risk their health, in the ways you point out in your post.  

This is only true if PEDs are the ONLY way to improve. Of course, they aren't.  'I did it because my peers did it' is not an acceptable excuse. Many players across all sports have found success with PEDs. Anyone who says they need PEDs to compete is only exposing their own insecurities and weaknesses. Should I blame Barry Bonds for Joe Mauer? I won't, because that takes responsibility for the ultimate bad decision away from the decision maker, Mauer. Needing to get better to compete is a reality for very participant in every professional sport. One can do so through hard work or with the aid of PEDs. If they choose PEDs, don't get me to try to blame someone else for that choice. If PEDs are forced on someone unknowingly (as is sometimes claimed in the minors in baseball), that's a different story. But if you choose to use PEDs, you're just as guilty as anyone who's uses them before you, and you deserve the consequences of your choice.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()