I'd like to add my thanks to Josh, Jason and the others who participated on this thread for their thoughtful and spirited discussion and debate.
As a member at Kingsley since 2008, I have played some 200+ rounds. By contrast, I have played the Downs only 6 or 7 times. I thus opted out of my own match play and instead simply enjoyed reading the perspectives of others on two courses I greatly appreciate.
I would, however, add a couple comments/observations:
Course knowledge as a discussion stimulant -- I have played Kingsley with everything from a full set of modern clubs to hickories to just a 7-iron and thus have seen a considerable variety of shots, situations and conditions. I can't say the same for the Downs and thus appreciated that Tom -- as one of the few GCA'ers I know who has played it more than, say, 50 times -- took the time to participate. Course knowledge surely drives course appreciation, especially on courses like these, and I'm sure that there are a host of things I have "missed" during my plays at the Downs that would change/reinforce/etc views on certain holes if I knew to look for them.
To that end, it would be really interesting to have Tom and Mike DeVries -- one of the others who has a high number of plays -- lead a hole-by-hole discussion of the Downs at some point….
Shot strategy -- It is well documented that Mike grew up playing the Downs and that many of its features and design principles influenced his work at Kingsley. But it has been less discussed where and how.
One that I have noticed involves the 7th hole on both courses. After the oft-maligned tee shot on the 7th at Kingsley, I would argue that the holes actually become quite similar. The player is faced with the decision of hitting a shot of 160-190 yards to stay on a ledge on the same level with the green and have a 8-iron to PW in, or hitting a longer shot that leaves a shorter approach, but one that is substantially uphill and blind-ish. Which play is preferred will depend on wind conditions, pin location, personal preference, etc. The green at the Downs clearly has more drama than Kingsley’s, although the latter’s green does possess some boomerang-ish properties.
But the point is this: both holes present a similar dilemmas and options for the player to consider, which are best worked from the green back to the tee. (On that point, the flag on 7 at Kingsley is visible while walking down the fairway on 1 which, to me, is one of the more important sneak peeks on the course.)
There certainly are other similarities -- the 11th green at the Downs and the 17th at Kingsley, especially to a front pin from above the hole; the bend and flow of the tee shots and approach shots on 4 at the Downs and 10 and Kingsley to name a couple – and I’d love to hear from others what they may have seen.
Green speeds – Josh’s comment on how the green speeds at the Downs drive a lot of the strategy. On my first visit, the assistant pro at the time (GCA’s own Brian Sleeman) warned me that the greens were “as fast as he had seen them” that year. Needless to say, I was terrified. But apart from a regrettable putt from above the hole on 11, I found them to be quite playable and actually fun to putt. On a subsequent visit, the greens were much, much slower due in large part to a stretch of continued heavy rain curtailing the grounds crew’s mowing plans. But they were still just as fun to putt. Why? Because with the slower speeds, they also were able to pin holes in some of the traditional/historic locations that had become untenable today. Which course presentation drives more strategy based on the greens? I’m not sure, but the juxtaposition is interesting.
For those who commented on the green speeds at Kingsley matching the contours, I wholeheartedly agree. I recall Dan Lucas saying they typically stimp at around a 10, which seems right. I have played them at closer to 11.5 or 12 in the past and can assure you that while it is fun at first, that feeling fades quickly when one has putt of a third consecutive green
In any case, just my two cents. And thanks again to Josh and all for a great thread!