The Kingsley Club vs. Crystal Downs - A Matchplay Event

[Nick_Christopher]

CD 13 is often listed among the best 100 holes in the world - I recall a book a number of years ago that had #5, #8 and #13 all included in the top 100 in the world - not surprisingly.  However, some of the interest is diminsihed for top players (myself not included!) given the distance they get off the tee.  The long running shot that Dr. Mac envisioned has been reduced to a mid-iron.  Still it is a very difficult hole and one of the greats in the world, which is a real testament to #13 at KC, which I think halves this hole (cop -out I realize)!

CD 2up

[Howard Riefs]

It's an "execute or die" hole on equal severity to the 17th at Sawgrass. Like that more famous hole, it doesn't ask the golfer to do anything obscene for a par. Just execute shots that cover a modest distance, but execute them with extreme precision.

Really?  If you don't execute at Sawgrass, you re-tee and hit your third shot. The "execute or die" at Kingsley is on #2 and #9. On #13, which is the 17 handicap hole, you're not forced to go at it with a driver. Playing it safe with a shot of 200 yards and then ~85 yards to a two-tier green, albeit a dangerous one, is not too much to ask.

Round 13
What's most significant about that discussion at the River Camp for me is how it reached golf's highest purpose. I recall sitting on a stool next to a fireplace, drinking extraordinary beer brewed locally and balancing on the fringe of mild drunkenness after 3 straight days of 36 holes of golf, surrounded by strangers and an "old" friend or two, 20 miles from civilization and almost 8 hours from home. We passionately discussed the best way to whack an object with a stick on an obscure 400 square yards of grass in the middle of a forest somewhere. We argued, laughed, and busted each others' balls (ok, I was the asshole doing most of the ball busting, as I'm afraid I'm the same jackass in person that I am online). When we all said our goodbyes the next day, it was with measurably more affection for each other than it would've been the day before. The 13th at Kingsley helped build real friendships that night.

Perfect.

[Jason Thurman]

It's an "execute or die" hole on equal severity to the 17th at Sawgrass. Like that more famous hole, it doesn't ask the golfer to do anything obscene for a par. Just execute shots that cover a modest distance, but execute them with extreme precision.

Really?  If you don't execute at Sawgrass, you re-tee and hit your third shot. The "execute or die" at Kingsley is on #2 and #9. On #13, which is the 17 handicap hole, you're not forced to go at it with a driver. Playing it safe with a shot of 200 yards and then ~85 yards to a two-tier green, albeit a dangerous one, is not too much to ask.

I don't think either hole presents a challenge that's too much to ask. Both of them average a shot of less than 150 yards to hit the green.

But once you're on the green at Kingsley's 13th, three and even four putts are still very much in play if you missed the correct tier. And the targeted areas to secure a two putt on that hole are much much smaller than the targeted area for a two putt at Sawgrass. The penalty for a miss is different for sure, but I think it has equal opportunity to be a scorecard disaster.

I'll grant, though, that it's probably easier to make a 28 on the 17th at Sawgrass than it is on the 13th at Kingsley. I also agree that the latter has more options and more opportunities for recovery shots. I'm just not sure that the median penalty for an imprecise shot winds up being any smaller than the median penalty for an imprecise shot at Sawgrass, at least by the time it gets distilled onto the scorecard.

[Mike Hendren]

Is the 13th at Kingsley great architecture or a novelty?

For the sake of balance can the same question be asked of Crystal Downs' 17th?

Bogey

[George Pazin]

Is the 13th at Kingsley great architecture or a novelty?

For the sake of balance can the same question be asked of Crystal Downs' 17th?

Bogey

Please define your terms...

[Jud_T]

Is the 13th at Kingsley great architecture or a novelty?

For the sake of balance can the same question be asked of Crystal Downs' 17th?

Bogey

Sure.  I can also ask if Kenny G's the modern day equivalent of Charlie Parker but that would be asinine.  I love almost everything about CD except the 17th.  At first glance it's easily the worst hole of the 36 under discussion while KC #13 is one of the best IMO.  When it comes time to discuss 17 I'd love to hear TomD defend it as anything more than an awkward connector.

[Matthew Lloyd]

Is the 13th at Kingsley great architecture or a novelty?

For the sake of balance can the same question be asked of Crystal Downs' 17th?

Bogey

My take on this is that both are great holes because they really force you to create and try new strategies and also demand different types of shots than most of the other holes on the course. I also feel like they put a nice emphasis on the short game and in this modern era of people booming shots, it's nice to have a strategic change of pace that brings shorter hitters and better wedge players and putters into the mix a bit more.

I do agree with several of the posters with some of the features of the 13th green at KC and how the lower back pin placement all shots end up on the fringe in the same spot, etc.  Those are all valid points.  Or else I'm simply incapable of hitting a good enough shot to avoid that fate.

But for all the times that I've brought new golfers to Kingsley, the three holes they can't stop talking about afterwards are #2, #9 and #13. That says a lot.  

[Jim Nugent]

 I love almost everything about CD except the 17th.  At first glance it's easily the worst hole of the 36 under discussion while KC #13 is one of the best IMO.  When it comes time to discuss 17 I'd love to hear TomD defend it as anything more than an awkward connector.

Ran features #17 as a Hole to Note in his CD profile.  He says:

"Far from a classic, the 17th is scintillating nonetheless. The golfer has to figure how to place his ball in a right to left sloping fairway (that almost doesn’t exist, let’s face it). A 25-mph wind blowing up the chute of trees makes the shot harder than the golfermay wish at this point in his match."

And..."The short 11th hole is a wonderful introduction into the wooded nature of the next six holes while the exposed 17th green is an inspiring re-introduction to the more open landscape."

I'm curious, too, to see if Doak chimes in on 17.  The pictures of it look pretty cool to me.  

[Steve Salmen]

Is 17 at Crystal more difficult than 13 at Kingsley?  The tee shot certainly is.  The second shots depend on one's knowledge of hole location on the green.  

Sometimes you'd rather be off the green with an uphill shot than on the green with a downhill putt.

When I used to play at Flossmoor, I'd prefer to be in the left greenside bunker on #3 than have a downhill putt.  

I think both are really good holes.

[Ken Fry]

I've been holding off on commenting thus far in the thread for two reasons:

1.  I have four rounds on Crystal Downs and feel that's not enough to adequately analyze the course against Kingsley, which I have significantly more rounds.

2.  By the time I got around to seeing this thread, it had grown to 9 pages..... in a day and a half.....

As a disclaimer, Crystal Downs and Kingsley hold the number 1 and number 2 spots in my all time favorite course list.

Looking at the overall personality of both courses, Kingsley is much more "in your face" with bold contouring, elevation changes and bunkering.  CD's genius is more the subtlety and strategy revealed over many plays.

The 13th hole of both courses is where I'm torn.  I love both holes despite their significant differences.  The 13th at Kingsley is fun for the variety of choices.  I've seen bogey or worse made from 5 yards off the green.  I've seen birdie made from the weeds right of the green (sorry Pete Pittock!!)  The 13th at CD is demanding and beautiful.  The green sparked interest in architecture for me.  Up to that point in my career, I hadn't seen anything like that.  It made a great impression on me.

The question was raised if Kingsley 13 and CD 17 are novelty or great architecture.  Both are wonderful examples of "use the land as found" architecture that results in a bit of novelty.  What could be wrong with that??

I've enjoyed everyone's input and perspective so far.  Thanks!

Ken

[Howard Riefs]

Would #13 at Kingsley be a better* hole without the front bunker?  Or with the bunker off to the left?  Or do you need that bunker to effectively challenge the player on a hole less than 300 yards, even though it has a challenging green?  


* Define 'better' as you will...

[Ryan Taylor]

I think the front bunker brings in much more strategy. It makes those three quarter and half wedges that much more intimidating. However, it would still be pretty cool without as the green would be protected by a steep and firm front face that would repel short shots down to the front swale.

I'm not a long hitter (270-280) but used to aim for the front bunker. It took me 2-3 rounds to learn to lay back to 90-100 yards.

[Matthew Lloyd]

I think the front bunker brings in much more strategy. It makes those three quarter and half wedges that much more intimidating. However, it would still be pretty cool without as the green would be protected by a steep and firm front face that would repel short shots down to the front swale. 

I was going to post a similar sentiment but will now just agree 100% with this.  It seems the hole would be without one of its major defenses.  Otherwise so many players could just drive it to 250-280 and then have a number of options chipping it up, including running it along the ground.  This really forces a deft touch on a lob/pitch and really evens things out.  It also catches half of the drives that would otherwise run up onto the green.

Thankfully -- at least for this hole -- I only drive it about 260-270 at most so I can swing away and usually come up just short.  Then, of course, there's that pitch shot to deal with... I'm usually not as successful on that.

[Mark Saltzman]

To catch up and in brief...

After 4 holes I had KC 2 up.

Hole 5: Crystal Downs - What a cool hole this would be if gang mowed!
Hole 6: Halved
Hole 7: Crystal Downs - this one wasn't close.
Hole 8: Crystal Downs
Hole 9: Kingsley Club

A/S after 9 holes.

Hole 10: Halved
Hole 11: Crystal Downs
Hole 12: Kingsley Club - I simply don't understand the 12th at Crystal Downs.  Like Jason, I thought the hole was boring.  Unlike Jason, my opinion has not changed.  Just because a hole fits the land, doesn't mean it's an interesting hole.
Hole 13: Halved

A/S after 13 holes.

[Bart Bradley]

To catch up and in brief...

After 4 holes I had KC 2 up.

Hole 5: Crystal Downs - What a cool hole this would be if gang mowed!
Hole 6: Halved
Hole 7: Crystal Downs - this one wasn't close.
Hole 8: Crystal Downs
Hole 9: Kingsley Club

A/S after 9 holes.

Hole 10: Halved
Hole 11: Crystal Downs
Hole 12: Kingsley Club - I simply don't understand the 12th at Crystal Downs.  Like Jason, I thought the hole was boring.  Unlike Jason, my opinion has not changed.  Just because a hole fits the land, doesn't mean it's an interesting hole.
Hole 13: Halved

A/S after 13 holes.

Mark, based on your previous comments, I would not have predicted that you would have the match square through 13.  Are you suprised by your own result thus far?  Do you think that the A/S reflects your feelings about the courses, or do you think that the limitations of this type of exercise mute your overall impression of the two courses?  In going through the holes, are you more impressed with Crystal in retrospect?

Bart

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark, based on your previous comments, I would not have predicted that you would have the match square through 13.  Are you suprised by your own result thus far?  Do you think that the A/S reflects your feelings about the courses, or do you think that the limitations of this type of exercise mute your overall impression of the two courses?  In going through the holes, are you more impressed with Crystal in retrospect?

Bart

Bart, very surprised.  I thought it would be a blowout and it hasn't been.  I haven't thought ahead to see how it will end!

I'm not more impressed with Crystal in retrospect, though.  I still think it has one great stretch of holes from 5-8, but I also think it has way too many pedestrian holes to be in the world top-15.

I've read and respect everyone's comments on this thread, but I still don't understand the greatness in 1, 2, 9, 10, 12, 16, 17, 18.  I couldn't rattle off a list like that for NGLA, Shinney, LACC, Merion, Oakmont.  Not that 2 plays makes an opinion 100% valid, but I'd love to get back up there to see if I confirm my thoughts or realize I just missed so much on my first time around.

Also, part of my opinion re Crystal Downs, was not only my ranking of the course but all of the magazine rankings of the course.  There have to be people, like me, that walk off the course after playing it once and just can't understand what the fuss about.  There must be others that snap their putters in half after putting off the green with 4 degrees of slope stimping at 13.  I've made a similar argument in the past about Old Mac, but maybe my opinion will change in 3 weeks 

[Tom_Doak]

Sure.  I can also ask if Kenny G's the modern day equivalent of Charlie Parker but that would be asinine.  I love almost everything about CD except the 17th.  At first glance it's easily the worst hole of the 36 under discussion while KC #13 is one of the best IMO.  When it comes time to discuss 17 I'd love to hear TomD defend it as anything more than an awkward connector.

OK.  It is certainly a connector hole and certainly awkward.  It's even more awkward when you can read a topo map and you stare at the topo of it and think, there is just no way there's a golf hole there.

But there is one, and it is a devilish hole.  You can take a driver and just fire away -- I've seen maybe 30 people try to do so in the 15 years since they took out the cherry tree on the right hillside that made it an insane play, and out of those 30 I've seen 15 x's, 10 doubles, 1 par and 1 birdie.  [The birdie was by a former Open champion, who drove exactly to the front edge of the green.]

You can take a long iron and try to hit to the saddle and go from there -- that's how I learned to play the hole, because it was the only reasonable alternative when the cherry tree was there, and I have not been tempted to try anything more aggressive.  It takes a laser-like shot with a long iron to get it up there into the wind, and you are risking fanning a shot up into the trees on the right and making x that way, too.  It's a scary shot.

But, there is also the fairway at the bottom of the slope, telling you that you could have hit a scud-missile 5-iron down to the bottom of the hill, pitched up short of the green, and tried to make 4 or 5 from there.  So it's not REALLY the do-or-die hole everyone says it is -- that is all a matter of choice that most people just can't resist, in one form or another.

It is not one of the five best holes on the golf course, but it is a lot more than just a connector.  And it's not like any hole I've ever played anywhere else.  There's always something to be said for that.  The story is in dispute which of the architects found it -- and we'll never know the answer unless MacKenzie's routing turns up somewhere someday -- but it amazes me that they made it work.  For me, it would handily beat the 17th hole at Kingsley, if my match wasn't already long over by then.  Or the 13th.

[Bill Seitz]

Well, I'll admit to homer bias (I'm also a few beers in on a Friday night), but the 17th at CD just seemed completely out of character with the rest of the course, and an obvious case of "we need to somehow get from the 16th green to the 18th tee, and this is the best we got".  I play a natural cut, and in my one play I hit an iron off the tee (quite poorly) onto the hill on the right, where it stayed.  I'm pretty sure I would hit a driver routinely on subsequent plays, because it sets up for my natural ball flight (plus, I hit driver fairly accurately).  It may be a good hole in isolation, but it just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the course.  But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

And speaking of getting ahead of ourselves, we're at about the point where I think the exercise (fun though it may be) starts to fall apart.  I say that because I can no longer assess 14 and 15 at Kingsley as separate holes.  Many courses have par 4.5s, and many courses have more than one.  But few have them back to back.  Personally, I have a hard time assessing those two holes individually, at least from the blue tees (from the far back gold tees, 14 at Kingsley is a legit par 5).  I see 14 and 15 as a par nine.  If I get through there in nine strokes, regardless of how those appear on the card, I'm successful.  Sometimes I go 4-5, sometimes I go 5-4, most of the time I go 5-5.   14 as a par 5 from the blue tees is easy and 15 as a par 4 is too hard, but together, they work*.  I've never asked Mike about this, but I like to think he had that in mind when he decided to perch the green up on 15.

*As part of an exercise I've been doing this year, I've been tracking my scoring average on every hole, and it's pretty close on 14 and 15 (5.07 vs. 4.73).  I think both holes suffer out of context, but in context, they work together really well.  

[Nick_Christopher]

We've got a few to cover before we get to 17, but it is a great conversation piece - the most common clubs I saw off the tee as a caddy were 5,6,7 irons...(20+ years ago with the choke cherry tree still there).   The most rational play is to hit over the chasm and play another mid/short iron in.  Not sure why this renders this hole unsuitable to some.  For what it's worth the prevailing wisdom I heard time and again was that Maxwell re-routed 17-18 and they were all his (save the 18 blue-tee, added later).  I love the hole, and was offered serious dough to rally the caddy troops to cut down the cherry tree in the middle of the night.   Fortunately it found its demise somewhere in the late 90s...

Bart - I like your gang-mowing thought on #5.  The original construction pictures I've seen of the guys raking the three sisters bunkers makes me think that the original intent might have been to tempt an extremely bold shot over the hill that would bound down to/near the green.

[Tom_Doak]

And speaking of getting ahead of ourselves, we're at about the point where I think the exercise (fun though it may be) starts to fall apart.  I say that because I can no longer assess 14 and 15 at Kingsley as separate holes.  Many courses have par 4.5s, and many courses have more than one.  But few have them back to back.  Personally, I have a hard time assessing those two holes individually, at least from the blue tees (from the far back gold tees, 14 at Kingsley is a legit par 5).  I see 14 and 15 as a par nine.  If I get through there in nine strokes, regardless of how those appear on the card, I'm successful.  Sometimes I go 4-5, sometimes I go 5-4, most of the time I got 5-5.   14 as a par 5 from the blue tees is easy and 15 as a par 4 is too hard, but together, they work*.  I've never asked Mike about this, but I like to think he had that in mind when he decided to perch the green up on 15.

*As part of an exercise I've been doing this year, I've been tracking my scoring average on every hole, and it's pretty close on 14 and 15 (5.07 vs. 4.73).  I think both holes suffer out of context, but in context, they work together really well.  

Bill:

I think exactly the same way of #1 and #2 at Crystal Downs ... and also of #12 and #13.  The first two holes are a better pair, because the course is so influenced by the wind and one of them is going to play VERY long on any windy day, you're just never sure which of them it will be.  This is one of the difficult things for some good players to accept about Crystal Downs, the fact that these holes are all par-4's, so I am really conceding two of them to be "bogey 5" holes in the old way of thinking.  [Actually, in 1920 when bogey was still in use, ALL FOUR of those holes would have had a Bogey of 5.]  But you can do that when you've only got two par-5's on the card.

[Jud_T]

It's certainly possible that 17 at CD is analogous to 7 at KC.  A frustrating hole that's a bit awkward for the first number of plays but eventually grows on you as one accepts it's quirks and learns to play within the unique challenge of the hole thereby unlocking the secret to it's enjoyment and an appreciation of its singular charm.

[Mac Plumart]

Hole 1...Kingsley 10-9
Hole 2...Kingsley 10-7 (one of the best par 3's in the world, IMO.  And 2 at The Downs didn't do it for me)
Hole 3...Kingsley 10-9
Hole 4...Kingsley 10-9
Hole 5...Crystal 10-9
Hole 6...Crystal 10-8
Hole 7...Crystal 10-8
Hole 8...Crystal 10-8
Hole 9...Kingsley 10-9 (I thought 9 at Kingsley was a truly great member's course par 3)

At the turn...

Kingsley 83; Crystal 83.  BOOM!!!

Hole 10...Push
Hole 11...Kingsley 10-6 (green speed and contours don't match at all at Crystal)
Hole 12...Crystal 10-9 (I really like 12 at Crystal...soothing, interesting, and enjoyable)
Hole 13...Kingsley 10-9 (13 at Kingsley is another great members course hole.  13 at The Downs is a good hole as well.)

Running update...through 13...Kingsley 122; Crystal 118.

[Mac Plumart]

If there is a payoff, I'm interested...please contact me via pm.   

This fight just might be stopped on the 17th hole.

[Jim Nugent]

Hole 1...Kingsley 10-9
Hole 2...Kingsley 10-7 (one of the best par 3's in the world, IMO.  And 2 at The Downs didn't do it for me)
Hole 3...Kingsley 10-9
Hole 4...Kingsley 10-9
Hole 5...Crystal 10-9
Hole 6...Crystal 10-8
Hole 7...Crystal 10-8
Hole 8...Crystal 10-8
Hole 9...Kingsley 10-9 (I thought 9 at Kingsley was a truly great member's course par 3)

At the turn...

Kingsley 83; Crystal 83.  BOOM!!!

Hole 10...Push
Hole 11...Kingsley 10-6 (green speed and contours don't match at all at Crystal)
Hole 12...Crystal 10-9 (I really like 12 at Crystal...soothing, interesting, and enjoyable)
Hole 13...Kingsley 10-9 (13 at Kingsley is another great members course hole.  13 at The Downs is a good hole as well.)

Running update...through 13...Kingsley 122; Crystal 118.

And it's at this point that the joint Georgia/Michigan GCA Judging Commission is called in for an emergency meeting due to the overwhelming accusations of a "fix" and possible payola, as well......

Not quite.  Of course you are kidding, but quite seriously Mac is a living example of that outlier statisticians like to discard.  I completely disagree with them, and feel all voices should be heard, so long as they are genuinely a part of the population at hand, which Mac definitely is.    

[Josh Tarble]

Sorry for the delay...I was out playing golf this weekend freezing my butt off.  Unfortunately not too many rounds left for this Indiana native.

Hole #14 is another difficult match, one that are two distinctly different holes.  If I'm not mistaken the longest hole on the course against the shortest hole on the course.

Kingsley Club #14 - 615 Yards - Par 5
This is the only hole on the course that I did not play from the tips.  For me, I'd have to imagine it would make it a REALLY interesting decision, whether or not I could actually make the carry.   As such, all discussion will be based off of the blue tees.

Off the tee, you are faced with another confounding drive.  "What's behind the bunkers?" "How far to carry?"  "How far to the trees on the left?"  I really feel bad for everyone that has played this hole without the help of a member.  The ideal line from the blue tees is almost the tree line right with a slight draw, or just over the right bunker, straight.  Anything hit on that line will hit a HUGE turbo boost in the fairway, careening down, making this par 5 very reachable.  Anything pushed will be a challenge to find and anything pulled runs the danger of running through the fairway and into the rough on the right .  In my opinion, it was actually one of the more penal drives on the course, because a missed fairway results in an almost automatic lost ball.  From the middle of the fairway, I approached this green anywhere from 210 to about 160 (we played on a very blustery down wind day)  and it is a great green complex that neutralizes any wayward attempt to reach the green, evening the playing field for the shorter hitters.  Right is a group of nasty bunkers, and left is a really cool fairway depression that makes an up-and-down very iffy.  The green is almost three-tiered, sloping pretty significantly from back to front.  I found shorter putts fairly straight on this green, but if you find yourself on the wrong shelf...good luck getting it close.  As Bill S. has stated, one of the problems with a match play comparison is it doesn't take into account the hole with flow of the course, as the birdie-able 14th is in perfect balance with the brutal 15th.  But the 14th is a great hole on it's own and can stand toe-to-toe with the best of them.  One of my favorites on the course.

The view from the tee - it doesn't give up many of it's secret's here.  Directly over the right bunker on the hillside in the distance is the line


Behind and right (from the tee) of the green - you can almost see the ski-slope like speed slot in the distance


Crystal Downs - 147 Yards - Par 3
For fans of the short par 3, this guy is one of the best.  On a course full of beautiful holes and vistas, this hole may have been the best looking of them all.  From the back tees, the green is a semi-infinity green, with no trees behind, only on both sides.  After being on a "walk through the woods" for a few holes, it is an awesome and very noticed difference to have a view like the one on the tee provides.  

Faced with a back pin, and a green that, from the tee, visibly slopes significantly from back to front, my only thought was "don't go long!" and it is surely one of the most heavily bunkered on the course, and man are the bunkers deep.  On the tee, this appears to be a hit the green or else hole. However, there are a couple things that make that not the case.  From the bunkers, the green does slope significantly from back to front overall with a fairly large back tier, which allows the player to at least keep a ball on the green.  But what was not noted from the tee and one of the subtleties that makes this hole great - on the back tier, the green actually slopes away from tee.  Making an up-and-down from the bunker a difficult task, but from the back, if still not very easy, at least possible.  If I were playing this hole again, I would certainly go after a back pin.  Just a great short par 3, that while very difficult for only have a 8 or 9 iron in your hands provides a player that misses an option for an up and down (as proven by my playing partner who had an excellent up and down from the front bunker).

From left and in front of the back tees, the open-ness and beauty of this hole is both immediately noticed and greatly appreciated


This is a difficult decision for me...because I absolutely love the 14th at Kingsley.  The tee shot is both incredibly demanding and incredibly fun.  However, I feel like 1) it provides far too much of an advantage for the long hitter and 2) if you aren't going for the green in two (which almost everyone will be) there isn't much to think about - just knock it anywhere out in the fairway.  Don't get me wrong, I think it's one of the top holes on the course, but it just can't match the 14th at the Downs for me.  For whatever reason I really, really loved this hole.  I think it's a combination of a short par 3 that looks far more difficult than it plays (IMO) and the feeling you get on the tee. It was at that moment I felt both a sense of joy because I was playing one of the best courses in the world, and a bit of sadness that I only had 4 holes left.  The view is truly one to be savored.  Crystal Downs 3 UP

Running Score
#1 (Crystal Downs) - Crystal Downs - 1 UP
#2 (Crystal Downs) - Crystal Downs - 2 UP
#3 (Kingsley Club) - Crystal Downs - 1 UP
#4 (Kingsley Club) - ALL SQUARE
#5 (Crystal Downs) - Crystal Downs - 1 UP
#6 (Crystal Downs) - Crystal Downs - 2 UP
#7 (Crystal Downs) - Crystal Downs - 3 UP
#8 (Crystal Downs) - Crystal Downs - 4 UP
#9 (Kingsley Club) - Crystal Downs - 3 UP
#10 (Crystal Downs) - Crystal Downs - 4 UP
#11 (Kingsley Club) - Crystal Downs - 3 UP
#12 (Kingsley Club) - Crystal Downs - 2 UP
#13 (DRAW) - Crystal Downs - 2 UP
#14 (Crystal Downs) - Crystal Downs 3 UP