Match play's alternate paths - Golfweek article by Brad Klein

[Jud_T]

Sean,

What is Foursomes Bogey?

[Will MacEwen]

OK here goes.

Foursomes in carts could be quite interesting
perfect emergency 9 formula.

Cold be a nice addition to the Goat Open......

We did it at King's Putter 2012 at Sagebrush.  Lots of fun on a nearly wide open course.

[jeffwarne]

OK here goes.

Foursomes in carts could be quite interesting
perfect emergency 9 formula.

Cold be a nice addition to the Goat Open......

We did it at King's Putter 2012 at Sagebrush.  Lots of fun on a nearly wide open course.

Motorized relay golf

[Sean_A]

Sean,

What is Foursomes Bogey?

Alternate shot.
3/8ths (maybe half) combined handicap.
Each hole is either won against par (net birdie or better scored), halved against par, or lost to par (net bogie or worse scored).  Hence, an even score is pretty good, anything up is very good.  

Its sort of like a 4somes stableford if you will.  Works really well for large groups looking for something different, but not easy.  Only thing worse is Mixed 4somes Bogey - oy veh.

I used to play in three local Bogey 4somes every year - don't know why I stopped.

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

OK here goes.

Foursomes in carts could be quite interesting
perfect emergency 9 formula.

Cold be a nice addition to the Goat Open......

We did it at King's Putter 2012 at Sagebrush.  Lots of fun on a nearly wide open course.

I missed that.  Was I drinking at the Hideout?

[Adam Clayman]

Solves many of the problems plaguing golf these days. 

Other than the high cost.

Whoever asked if a course's hole numbers and corresponding par is a criterion for a GW rating...It is not.

[David Kelly]

I remember being out on the 9th hole at North Berwick when a foursomes match for either the N.B.G.C. or Tantallon clubs came upon us and played through.  It was like a summer thunderstorm; they came from out of nowhere, they were suddenly upon us and then they were gone.

[Dan Kelly]

All four of Augusta National's par-3s are even numbers.

How in the world did that happen?

-------

To Mark Pearce: I LOVE alternate-shot golf, just the way you describe it.

I was merely suggesting a couple of alternatives, to give those who've never played the pure form a taste of its differences from playing one's own ball from tee into hole.

[Brent Hutto]

But as I believe someone pointed out, when it does go wrong the whole enterprise stops like it has hit a wall. I was behind a whole series of foursomes games during my afternoon round at Royal St. George's a few weeks ago. For the first few holes they were leaving me (playing solo) trailing in their wake. Then the next-to-last match started losing balls with the "other player" having to double back to the tee to hit a second ball. Probably only happened three or four times in a stretch of eight holes but they were suddenly moving at a PGA Tour pace.

Of course for me the saving grace was that the match seemed to close out on about the 15th hole and the course opened back up.

[Dan Kelly]

Whoever asked if a course's hole numbers and corresponding par is a criterion for a GW rating...It is not.

Good.

I was worried that Pebble Beach might take a terrible tumble when someone noticed that it has four even par 5s (2, 6, 14, 18) and three odd par 3s (5, 7, 17).

[Giles Payne]

We play quite a lot of foursomes at the club - unless it is being taken very seriously (which really isn't the done thing), where three of the tee is required, the original player re-hits the tee shot to save time. I know that this is not technically correct but it does mean that the rounds generally take less than 2 1/2 hrs. It is  a more stressful form of golf if you are not playing well but most of the time it is very enjoyable.

[Lou_Duran]

Lynn Shackelford and I went out as a twosome at Denham a couple years back on a nice fall day.  As we were teeing off #1, two elderly couples, each with a dog on a leash were making their way to the tee.  Being that we were guests, I looked at Lynn and asked if we could stay in front of the group or whether we should let them go through right away.  We opted to play forward, but it wasn't but a couple holes when they were on our tails, looking none too pleased.  Of course, we left them go through, marveling at how the men went to the tee while the women moved forward with the dogs toward the landing area.  I am assuming that they were alternating on the next tee, but I don't remember seeing them again until we walked into the bar after the round.  We got done in about three hours, had a sandwich and drinks, and upon leaving, noticed that the two couples were still going strong in the bar.

From what I can determine, foursomes is a game that involves some golf, but seems to be as much about socializing in the bar afterwards.  It is a different way to play golf I suppose, but unless one is playing with great frequency, I don't see the point of playing half of a game.  I am sure it has its charms, but if I am paying a greenfee, why would I want to play a partial game?  Why rush around in 2 to 2.5 hours and play half the shots to then spend an equal time at the bar?  Golf is a big world, BUT .......!  

[Bill Seitz]

From what I can determine, foursomes is a game that involves some golf, but seems to be as much about socializing in the bar afterwards.  It is a different way to play golf I suppose, but unless one is playing with great frequency, I don't see the point of playing half of a game.  I am sure it has its charms, but if I am paying a greenfee, why would I want to play a partial game?  Why rush around in 2 to 2.5 hours and play half the shots to then spend an equal time at the bar?  Golf is a big world, BUT .......!  

This pretty much gets to the point.  Unless you're playing/have played a course a lot, or are not paying for a particular round, most people, at least in the U.S., are going to want to play their own ball.  We've had some push back when we've tried to do foursomes in the Midwest Mashie for that very reason.  I suspect that most of the foursomes golf played across the pond is done by members who play a particular course all the time, which makes it a non-issue.  If I'm playing my second (or third) round of the day at my club, it can be a fun format.  If I'm dropping $100 on a course I've never played before and may never play again, I'd like to play my own ball.

I should add, however, that the analysis would change if someone were invited to, say, August, or NGLA, or Chicago Golf or something like that.  I'm not going to turn down a once in a lifetime invite just because my host wants to play foursomes. 

[David_Tepper]

I played in a foursomes match at Royal Dornoch this past May between a group of members and a group from a visiting British senior golfing society. At the lunch following the match, I sat next to the fellow from the society who had organized the match for the society. He said their society had over 1,000 members (with a waiting list of those interested in joining) and conducts similar matches on a weekly basis at clubs all around Britain during the course of the year. All of the matches are conducted as foursome play.

Clearly, foursome play in GB&I vs. the US is another demarcation between the nature of golf there and here.    

[Carl Johnson]

. . .
From what I can determine, foursomes is a game that involves some golf, but seems to be as much about socializing in the bar afterwards.  It is a different way to play golf I suppose, but unless one is playing with great frequency, I don't see the point of playing half of a game.  I am sure it has its charms, but if I am paying a greenfee, why would I want to play a partial game?  Why rush around in 2 to 2.5 hours and play half the shots to then spend an equal time at the bar?  Golf is a big world, BUT .......!  

Lou, to be the Devil's Advocate here, does not that depend on how you define a "game" of golf?  My modest understanding of golf history is that early competition was match play - the record suggests that's how the game started.  Back in the feathery days, balls were more expensive than clubs.  Between four players, they might only have two, or a few, balls.  Alternate shot was a way that four players could play a game of golf when they only had a couple of balls among them.  Then stroke play came along, etc., etc.  So, I would say there is more than one way to play a game of golf.  Alternate shot is one way, two-ball match play is another way, four-ball match play another, stroke play another, Stapleford, etc., etc.  Alternate shot is not half a game, but just a different game from, say, stroke play.  (I did not enjoy a misspent youth, but I have sensed from others that there is more than one way to play a game of pool on a pool table.  That's the analogy.)

Now, I agree it is reasonable and fair to say you don't wish to waste a green fee on a foursome game - that's a personal matter.  Of course, typical golf club members don't pay by the round, so it's a different situation for them.  Among many reasons that foursomes doesn't suit Americans, in my opinion, is that you, individually, cannot "shoot a score" or "post a score," and for many American golfers that's what the game is about - scoring against the course (oh, and lowering your handicap - almost forgot), not competing in a "game" against others.  Again, just my opinion.

[Will MacEwen]

OK here goes.

Foursomes in carts could be quite interesting
perfect emergency 9 formula.

Cold be a nice addition to the Goat Open......

We did it at King's Putter 2012 at Sagebrush.  Lots of fun on a nearly wide open course.

I missed that.  Was I drinking at the Hideout?

Of course.


Lou,

I wouldn't want to play only foursomes, but it is a nice afternoon diversion after 18 in the morning.  At Sagebrush it was a play all day rate, and the speed of the game made it very appealing.  Not as appealing as the bar was to Mr. McBride.

[Garland Bayley]

OK here goes.

Foursomes in carts could be quite interesting
perfect emergency 9 formula.

Cold be a nice addition to the Goat Open......

We did it at King's Putter 2012 at Sagebrush.  Lots of fun on a nearly wide open course.

I missed that.  Was I drinking at the Hideout?

Bill,

I'm sorry, but you left yourself wide open.
You and Ted were waxed by Bob and I.
 

[Sean_A]

Lou is definitely missing the point that 4somes is a full game, just a different sort of full game.  I can see his point about paying a green fee and to be fair, traditional 4somes is over 36 holes.  I guess its only really an issue if one is visiting a 2ball club or if the course is fairly empty.  Otherwise, there isn't much point in playing 4somes because you will be held up anyway.  Bottom line, when in Rome...and even in Rome usually you can go out as a 2ball.  For tough courses, its a far better way to play because far less time is spent looking for balls.

Ciao

[Lou_Duran]

Lou, to be the Devil's Advocate here, does not that depend on how you define a "game" of golf?

Now, I agree it is reasonable and fair to say you don't wish to waste a green fee on a foursome game - that's a personal matter.  Of course, typical golf club members don't pay by the round, so it's a different situation for them.  Among many reasons that foursomes doesn't suit Americans, in my opinion, is that you, individually, cannot "shoot a score" or "post a score," and for many American golfers that's what the game is about - scoring against the course (oh, and lowering your handicap - almost forgot), not competing in a "game" against others.  Again, just my opinion.

Carl-

As we learned from a hero to many here, it all depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.    The DG is just about 100% opinions and personal preferences.  Those of us who cut our cultural teeth during the Viet Nam War are relativists; everything is conditional, and "the truth" is mostly what you think it is.  Far be it for me to declare that foursomes is less than a full game for someone else.

Thanks for the history lesson and cultural analysis.  I can think of alternative reasons why the UKs play a different game- e.g. difficult weather, a golf culture where alcohol has been a tradition, frequency of play, typically low cost of annual dues, etc. which might explain the popularity of foursomes.  As it is said, "when in Rome .......".

Will,

I have played foursomes numerous times and enjoy the game under the conditions you noted- in addition to a round where you've played your own ball.  As a rule, I am a decent two ball partner because I normally keep the ball in play and I am not afraid to chase foul balls.

Sean,

I don't think that I am missing the point at all.  It might be a "full game" if you play 36 holes, and I give you that it would be a nice change of pace.  But, for the most part, golf is mostly a game played by individuals.  That I would want a steady diet of foursomes, even in a 36 hole format which I have never played, is something that I guess I would have to "grow into".  Me, culturalized on this side of the pond for over 40 years, I suspect I would still have a preference for playing my 80-90 shots over 18 holes in around four hours, than going around twice, playing each other's foul balls prior to retiring to the bar to fraternize.

[Brent Hutto]

On a walkable course like Deal or wherever, two times around playing "each others foul balls" in five hours beats one time around searching for "each others foul balls" in the weeds in four hours. If that were the choice, not even a close call at all.

To the extent the walking forward thing actually works out and one is able to see and walk straight to "foul balls" I'd be all for it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

All four of Augusta National's par-3s are even numbers.

How in the world did that happen?

When they reversed the nines 

-------

To Mark Pearce: I LOVE alternate-shot golf, just the way you describe it.

I was merely suggesting a couple of alternatives, to give those who've never played the pure form a taste of its differences from playing one's own ball from tee into hole.

Alternate shot golf will NOT take hold in the U.S. for a number of reasons.

[David_Tepper]

"Alternate shot golf will NOT take hold in the U.S. for a number of reasons."

Pat M. -

And those reasons are?

DT