Match play's alternate paths - Golfweek article by Brad Klein

[John Mayhugh]

In the latest Golfweek, Brad Klein has a nice short article about the paths created by walking ahead when playing foursomes.    I think playing foursomes without walking ahead is missing a good part of the fun.  It doesn't get much more sociable than spending more time with your opponent than your partner.

Link to the article.
http://www.mydigitalpublication.com/article/Golfweek%E2%80%99s_Best/1527717/178495/article.html

[Ally Mcintosh]

Foursome paths are a great thing.... Unfortunately we play foursomes so little that rarely does a whole group get the idea of non-playing partners walking ahead... So I never really see them used, even at some of the most traditional clubs

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Could this be the one positive side effect of pushing tees back to increase the lengths of holes;  the two guys not driving need walk only a few yards forward to be adjacent to the landing area of the drives.  

[John Kavanaugh]

I want to thank Brad for calling the game what it is..Alternate shot.  I play a ton of this because I am often too tired to play my own ball on a second 18 of the day.  You can't play it alone and you won't play it spending an inordinate amount of time explaining the term Foursomes to your already less than enthused friends.

Just this past week I related the story to being partnered with the architect of Lost Dunes in a game of pure alternate shot.  I quickly chose to tee off the odd numbered holes knowing full well he could climb the steps on 12.  He built it, he can climb it.

[PCCraig]

A nice article. Thanks for posting.

I really enjoy pure alternate shot, but unfortunately I think we're a long way away from it being more than a novelty here in the States. Maybe someday.

[Bill Seitz]

Just this past week I related the story to being partnered with the architect of Lost Dunes in a game of pure alternate shot.  I quickly chose to tee off the odd numbered holes knowing full well he could climb the steps on 12.  He built it, he can climb it.

I remember that day very well, as I was teeing off on the odd holes with you.  My first Kavanaugh experience.

What I loved about playing alternate shot that day was how fast the round went.  We were done in about 2:30, and it's really a format that works well at courses with a fair amount of native  Not only does walking ahead allow you to play faster by getting to the ball quicker, but you spend a heck of a lot less time looking for balls in the junk.  It's a lot easier to find where a ball entered the long stuff when you're only standing about 20 yards from it. Plus, at Lost Dunes, you've got a number of holes with tees set a little bit back from the prior green, or in places which make it really convenient for the second-shot twosome to walk ahead.  

[Sean_A]

The reason 4somes paths work so well at Muirfield is due to the routing.  At many courses, the concept fails dramatically.  Think of the classic out n' back - going forward isn't an option.  Guys do it, but they have to be hustling to gain a safe viewing position.  Then of course, there are the golfers!  Walking forward usually works if guys are competent golfers.  Often times, the long walk back to look for a ball can raise questions as to why one is playing this crazy format.  Anyway, it all sounds lovely.  In practice, its often a different story.  I have always preferred Greensomes.

Ciao

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I was just discussing this with a friend.  I remarked that i've played alternate shot a number of times, but it's always where all four of us are walking together.  However, when we played Muirfield this summer, it took us a number of holes, and being barked at by our caddies, to get used to walking ahead while our partner teed-off.  Was a lot of fun, and created a pretty neat rhythym to the match.  

On another note, there's a fairly well-known amateur invitational on the West Coast called the Craven's Cup hosted by San Gabriel CC  which is contested in Alternate Shot format.  

[Thomas Dai]

One of the reasons why foursomes, alternate shot as some call it, can be played pretty quickly is that the player 'up the fairway' can normally spot and find erratic tee-shots relatively easily, kinda like having a fore-caddy. as to the format, I prefer 4BBB and greensomes (both hit then choose) myself but that's just MO.
All the best

[David Davis]

We play foursomes in national competition. However it's followed by singles in the afternoon. I quite enjoy it in competition it's tough to get your rhythm but if you have a good partner and some good laughs along the way it can be great. We haven't lost a match in two years and mainly that's because most people don't ever practice it over here. I've only ever played it in a casual round in the UK at Royal St. Georges with a very special group and that was absolutely brilliant.

If the company was really good and I could find guys willing I'd do it a lot more often.

[Bill_McBride]

Brad is wrong about one thing.   From my experience you don't apologize for hitting a bad shot (other than perhaps a wry grin and shrug), because your partner's likely to also hit a bad shot at some point and you don't want a bunch of negativity back and forth. 

Those paths at Muirfield are really cool. 

[Adam Clayman]

There should be no sorries in team golf. It's just really hard not to apologize for being errant, or stupid. Everyone knows they're doing their best, so sorry isn't necessary.

 What I observe is that American golfers don't like alternate shot because it is too stressful. A humble golfer can hack it around all day long and not feel badly about getting themselves into the worst spots. But when you place your partner there, it sucks.

What happens when a driver on a hole hits it OB? Does he hit three off the tee or does his partner have to walk back to the teeing ground?
Since I've never heard of these alternate paths, I assume the partner doesn't walk back.

Thanks Brad for the edumacation.

[Brad Klein]

Adam,

if (when) one guy hits it OB the other guy hits the next shot. You never hit a shot two times in a row on the same hole. If you've putted out on the last hole and it's your turn on the next hole (odd/even) that's the only time you hit twice in a row.

On a well-designed golf course the par-3s and par-5s are designed with offset numbering so both guys have  a chance on par-3s and par-5s. One of the limits of Muirfield Village is that for the Solheim Cup, Ryder Cup and Presidents Cup, all the par-5s are odd (5,7,11,15) and all the par-3s are even (4, 8, 12, 16). Jack was obviously not thjnking about alternate shot when he designed it. And certainly not Desmond Muirhead, who never thought much about golf generally.  

[Ally Mcintosh]

Adam,

if (when) one guy hits it OB the other guy hits the next shot. You never hit a shot two times in a row on the same hole. If you've putted out on the last hole and it's your turn on the next hole (odd/even) that's the only time you hit twice in a row.

On a well-designed golf course the par-3s and par-5s are designed with offset numbering so both guys have  a chance on par-3s and par-5s. One of the limits of Muirfield Village is that for the Solheim Cup, Ryder Cup and Presidents Cup, all the par-5s are odd (5,7,11,15) and all the par-3s are even (4, 8, 12, 16). Jack was obviously not thjnking about alternate shot when he designed it. And certainly not Desmond Muirhead, who never thought much about golf generally.  

Hi Brad,

I'd change "well designed" to "good course for alternate shot".

Thinking about placing holes as you state specifically for alternate shot is a long, long way down the list of design priorities.

I'm sure that's what you meant but I'm pedantic enough to just point it out.

Ally

[Brad Klein]

Actually I meant what I said.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Oh I see.

I disagree with you then.

[Dan Kelly]

A nice article. Thanks for posting.

I really enjoy pure alternate shot, but unfortunately I think we're a long way away from it being more than a novelty here in the States. Maybe someday.

I think people usually object to getting less than a full round, especially people who don't get to play as much as they want to.

A compromise is offered by the format of the Minnesota mixed team championships' second day: both players tee off; each hits the other's second shot. Then the team chooses which ball to play into the hole from there, alternately.

I also like the idea of double alternate shot, where each team has two balls and they alternate shots with both balls.

[Bill Seitz]

Brad is wrong about one thing.   From my experience you don't apologize for hitting a bad shot (other than perhaps a wry grin and shrug), because your partner's likely to also hit a bad shot at some point and you don't want a bunch of negativity back and forth. 

We do an event every year between guys from Kingsley and Greywalls, and one of the rounds is alternate shot.  My partner this year was Dan Lucas.  I liked his approach, which was to just have us both apologize to each other on the first tee for all of the bad situations we were more than likely going to put each other in throughout the round.  And with that out of the way, it was time to play some golf. 

[Brent Hutto]

At the risk of sounding argumentative, my club's course has to the best of my knowledge never had a round of "walk forward foursomes" played over it during its 60+ year history. And will not see any such rounds in the foreseeable future. In fact, I may well be the only member of the club who even knows such a game exists.

If Brad Klein showed up to "rate" our course tomorrow, would it lose points because the hole numbers of the Par 5's and Par 3's don't work out advantageously for these never-gonna-happen walk forward foursomes games?

That's no more a criterion for good golf course design than serving ones favorite beer in the clubhouse should be. It might be very important if one wants to host a Presidents Cup, I suppose.

[Dan Kelly]

It would be interesting to take, say, Golfweek's top courses and see how many meet this criterion.

[Garland Bayley]

Ally,

We all disagree.

[Mark Pearce]

The problem with Greensomes or the version Dan Kelly described, is that they're neither one thing nor the other.  They lose the pace of play advantage.  Indeed both can be slower than 4 ball golf, where foursomes is always quicker.  They dilute the importance of hitting each shot knowing your partner is hitting the next.  Both are easier.  If you really feel the need to hit every shot, then foursomes isn't your game.  I wouldn't want all my golf to be foursomes but a good game of foursomes is as good as golf gets.  Playing well in foursomes is harder than singles and the satisfaction of a good score commensurately higher.   It is a true team game and all the better for it.

[Jud_T]

I absolutely love Foursomes.  Solves many of the problems plaguing golf these days.  Is this the most interesting thing about Muirfield?

[jeffwarne]

OK here goes.

Foursomes in carts could be quite interesting
perfect emergency 9 formula.

Cold be a nice addition to the Goat Open......

[Sean_A]

The problem with Greensomes or the version Dan Kelly described, is that they're neither one thing nor the other.  They lose the pace of play advantage.  Indeed both can be slower than 4 ball golf, where foursomes is always quicker.  They dilute the importance of hitting each shot knowing your partner is hitting the next.  Both are easier.  If you really feel the need to hit every shot, then foursomes isn't your game.  I wouldn't want all my golf to be foursomes but a good game of foursomes is as good as golf gets.  Playing well in foursomes is harder than singles and the satisfaction of a good score commensurately higher.   It is a true team game and all the better for it.

The advantage of Greensomes is that it takes some serious strategy to figure out who's shot to take.  Its not always best to take the 300 yard  drive down the middle - if you know what I mean.    

My favourite form of 4somes is 4somes Bogey.  Its a shame that it is rarely played.  

The problem with 4somes is so many courses aren't really well designed to facilitate quick rounds - that is why you get tons of golfers sticking together - which defeats much of the reason for 4somes.  Plus, golfers can often hack it about so one needs to walk back - a huge drag.  Its alright once on a while as an after lunch boozer game or if 36 is definitely on the cards, but I wouldn't want a steady diet of it.  Its a bit too austere for me to really embrace 4somes.  

Ciao