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Michael Felton

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New Member
« on: October 05, 2013, 12:02:17 PM »
Hi all,

I've been a fan of this site for a while and enjoyed reading the discussion forums, but have just now joined. Looking forward to contributing from time to time, but mostly learning.

I'm a member of a couple of clubs in the UK - Walton Heath and Effingham, but as of about 6 years ago I've been living in New York. I'm not currently a member of a club here in the US, so have been playing the part of nomad golfer of late. Playing mostly out on Long Island, but occasionally in north Jersey. I've been playing for over 20 years, but would class myself as a relative newcomer to real interest in reading about architecture. Currently I just have what I've picked up from playing a decent number of courses around the world.

I've been keeping track and am currently at 263 courses played. Most of those are in the UK, but the US is catching up pretty quickly. I've also been lucky enough to play some very good courses in my time, although my list pales next to some on here. Since it seems to be the done thing, my top ten favourites, in no particular order after the first one, are:

Pine Valley
Turnberry Ailsa
Muirfield
St Andrews Old
Royal St Georges
Winged Foot West
Royal Porthcawl
Kingsbarns
Walton Heath Old
Ballybunion Old

Enjoy your weekends one and all!

Michael

Cliff Walston

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Re: New Member
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2013, 01:32:50 PM »
Welcome aboard Michael!  Your top ten is quite impressive.  Hope you enjoy the treehouse.

Michael Felton

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Re: New Member
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2013, 02:51:41 PM »
Thanks Cliff,

I'm sure that I will. My list is quite heavily UK weighted. I've played quite a lot in the US now, but it's mostly been public tracks in the metro area and while a lot of them are good fun and interesting, they're not the same standard as the private courses around here and the Open rota ones back in the UK. Or the established inland courses there like Walton, Sunningdale, Swinley, Ganton and so on.

mike_malone

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Re: New Member
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2013, 03:22:40 PM »
Quit gca.com now before you waste years of your life like I have
AKA Mayday

Frank Pont

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Re: New Member
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2013, 03:40:54 PM »
Welcome Michael,

anybody with such a Colt/Simpson/Fowler/MacKenzieRoss weighted list and Colt/Fowler memberships cannot have bad taste  ;)




Paul Gray

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Re: New Member
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 02:21:41 AM »
Welcome Michael.

A very impressive list.

Enjoy the "discussions."  ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

PCCraig

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Re: New Member
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2013, 11:27:29 AM »
Welcome Michael!
H.P.S.

Bill_McBride

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Re: New Member
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2013, 07:04:19 PM »
Several of us played Walton Heath Old shortly after arriving at Heathrow a couple of years ago.  We loved the course and its very walkable routing.  I was particularly impressed with the par 4s which are a strong group.  

I notice you list the Old but not the New in your top courses.  Is there that much difference between them?   There didn't seem to be from the New course holes we could see adjacent to the Old.  

One of the early par 4s, No. 4 I think, has the nastiest viper's nest of bunkers and Heather and broken ground I think I've ever encountered, about 30 yards short right of the green.  That area should be avoided!

Welcome to GCA, try not to take it too certainly!   ;D

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: New Member
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2013, 07:36:11 PM »
I played with Bill that day.  I too have a few questions about Walton Heath.

There is a green in the first 9 holes that is unlike any green on the course.  It actually looks like it is built on a landfill and has shifted over the years and has humps and bumps the other don't have.  Can you explain?

Additionally the caddie said it was Herbert Fowler's first course, and he was the son-in-law of the founder.  Is this true?  Links magazine this month has it listed as one of the best in England, unique for someone's first design if that was the case.  Maybe he spent years altering it?

Not only compare the Old to the New, but the Old to the composite.  Thanks.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Michael Felton

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Re: New Member
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 07:44:26 PM »
Hi Bill,

I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I do prefer the Old to the New. There's not a great deal in it. In the "Who are you guys?" thread, I posted my top US courses and top UK courses and the New made it on that list. I think on the Old, I'm not a huge fan of the 1st hole and 18th holes, but apart from those two, it's 16 great holes IMO. The New has a lot of good holes on it too (and the 18th on the New is much better than on the Old), but it has a few holes that I'm not a big fan of.

On the New Course, I think 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16 and 18 are great holes, but the others I'm not quite so keen on. Like I said it's close and I never feel cheated if the New is the course I'm playing. I do feel slightly better when it's the Old though.

The land the two courses are on is basically the same and they are very similar in many ways. They feel the same when you play them. Take 3 on the New though. That's probably my least favourite hole on the courses and it's because there's a bunker and a band of heather across the fairway at about 250-280 yards from the tee. That, with the shape of the fairway and the pace the ground runs in the summer means you have to lay back a bit from it, so you're pretty much always hitting a 200 yard shot to a green that has a false front, so it's hard to run it up. That all means I pretty much always play the hole the same way and I don't like that. If the bunker and heather covered half the fairway then I would think it a much better hole because you could take the chance of risking it to give yourself an easier second, but at a cost. As it is there's nothing to tempt you, so playing safe is all there is. All that said, I don't hate the hole. The green complex is interesting and the two bunkers either side of the green play havoc with your mind on the approach shot.

Michael Felton

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Re: New Member
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2013, 07:55:21 PM »
Hi Lynn,

That's almost certainly the 5th that you're thinking of. It's a dogleg left with a bunker you don't want any piece of on the right and a heather covered bank on the left I've spent rather a lot of time on. The green has about 8 different shelves on it and you really want to hit the right one with your approach. It's a more fun hole from the shorter tees where it's a wedge in (from the very back tees the hole is about 485 yards and it's a mid-long iron even when it's running fast). I don't know why it's so different from all the others, although some of the other greens have some quirks to them - 13 for example. It's never felt out of place to me.

As to the composite course, I've only played it a couple of times. The club has a tournament once a year that's played over the composite course. As I said in my post just now, the two courses are very similar and the composite does feel quite seamless when you skip from one to the other. The composite plays mostly holes from the Old, but with some different tees that change the angles. The 4th hole on the Old (the one with that bunker in the middle of the fairway that eats everything) is played as a par 5, but then there are 13 on the New, 14 on the Old and 16 on the Old that are typically par 5s, but are played as par 4s. That makes it pretty tough, but then 17 on the Old which plays about 200 yards from the purple tees on the Old is only about 150 on the composite, so I'm not sure which course is tougher. I find the start on the Old very tough and having 4 playing as a par 5 makes that much easier on the composite, so I find myself more set in my round by the time the really tough stuff happens.

I must confess I'm not sure if it was Herbert Fowler's first course. The club has a club history book called "Of Heather and Heaven" and I do have a copy, but it's back in the UK, so I don't have it to hand. I'll investigate and let you know though.

Bill_McBride

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Re: New Member
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2013, 09:44:57 PM »
Apparently the Ryder Cup composite course skipped No. 1 Old and started with 2. Is that the normal composite?

Michael Felton

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Re: New Member
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2013, 10:06:27 PM »
Composite goes:

2 Old
4 Old as a par 5
5-13 Old
12 New
13 New as a par 4
14 Old as a par 4
15 Old
16 Old as a par 4
17 Old
18 New

Bill_McBride

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Re: New Member
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 10:58:06 PM »
Composite goes:

2 Old
4 Old as a par 5
5-13 Old
12 New
13 New as a par 4
14 Old as a par 4
15 Old
16 Old as a par 4
17 Old
18 New

So they walk from 2nd green to 4 tee, some 350 yards?   That would kill the deal for me!

My favorite feature on the Old was the back 4th tee, which was almost part of the back of the 3rd green!

Mark Chaplin

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Re: New Member
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2013, 01:41:26 AM »
Bill like Royal Melbourne the composite takes out road crossings. The walk to tee 2 isn't that far as it's a par 5 and the tee is half way down 3 Old. I enjoy the New but it lacks balance with the 10th the final par 3. It's very long course from 11 in.
Cave Nil Vino

Michael Felton

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Re: New Member
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2013, 08:56:46 AM »
Correct. The 3rd on the Old is only about 290 yards and the tee starts a good 50 odd yards back from the 2nd green and the par 5 combined course tee adds about 120 yards to the 4th hole (2nd on the composite). It's no more than 150 yards walk.