Rock Creek Cattle Company - Photo Thread

[George Freeman]

I had the real pleasure of spending a couple days at the Rock Creek Cattle Company in Montana.  What a special place.  The course is really phenomenal and really stands out in a different (read: good) way compared to a lot of other well-regarded courses I have played.  Enjoy the pictures.

Hole 1 - par 4 - 385 yds (second tee set)


Approach - one of the few forced carries on the course


Hole 2 - par 4 - 436 yds


Close up of the left fairway bunkers


Approach - note the lower back bowl of the green




Hole 3 - par 5 - 543 yds


Left, right, or go for it?




Hole 4 - par 4 - 441 yds - way more uphill than it looks!


View from just in front of the left fairway bunker


Semi-blind view from short right of the green, which is in a large bowl


Hole 5 - par 4 - 301 yds


Hole 6 - par 4 - 383 yds


View from a short drive


Hole 7 - par 4 - 443 yds


View from the top of the hill.  The ball in the foreground is probably 20 feet below where the picture is taken.






Hole 8 - par 3 - 173 yds




Looking back


Hole 9 - par 4 - 372 yds






Back nine next...

[George Freeman]

Hole 10 - par 5 - 576 yds








Hole 11 - par 4 - 412 yds


Huge dip between where this photo was taken and the green.


Hole 12 - par 3 - 148 yds




Hole 13 - par 3 - 221 yds

[George Freeman]

Some pictures of the neat walking bridge on #13






Hole 14 - par 4 - 454 yds - a Man's hole from the tips - green on right side of picture






Through the shoot


Looking back


Hole 15 - par 4 - 299 yds






Hole 16 - par 4 - 426 yds




Uphill approach


Hole 17 - par 3 - 169 yds - spectacular setting






Hole 18 - par 5 - 555 yds




Approach after a well placed layup

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks very much, George - an excellent photo essay and my best look at Rock Creek yet.

Peter

[John Percival]

G,
Great job.
What an interesting looking cse.
Couple of questions...it looks like a chaparral setting, what is the weather/season?
What is the elevation/ yardage change?
What type of grass on fwy and greens?
What are the various total yardages?

Thx for such a cool start to a Friday!

[jonathan_becker]

George,

Do you have a photo of the drop-off right side of the fw on #11?

Obviously, the terrain dictates this....but I don't think I've ever played a hole where playing aggressively off the tee (towards the left fw bunkers) gives a total sight advantage into the green.  As you know, playing it safe down the middle will result in the ball feeding drastically to the right and down the hill leaving no view for the approach.

It's a totally unique hole in my experiences playing golf.

[Tom_Doak]

George,

Do you have a photo of the drop-off right side of the fw on #11?

Obviously, the terrain dictates this....but I don't think I've ever played a hole where playing aggressively off the tee (towards the left fw bunkers) gives a total sight advantage into the green.  As you know, playing it safe down the middle will result in the ball feeding drastically to the right and down the hill leaving no view for the approach.

It's a totally unique hole in my experiences playing golf.

Jonathan:

I've done that sort of thing before -- the 12th at Ballyneal is another hole where a leaky drive to the right leaves you a lot worse look at the green.  But the drop to the right at Rock Creek is much deeper.

[George Freeman]

G,
Great job.
What an interesting looking cse.
Couple of questions...it looks like a chaparral setting, what is the weather/season?  
I was there in early Sept - with excellent and dry weather (in the 80s)

What is the elevation/ yardage change?
The ball definitely travels further at Rock Creek.  I don't know the elevation but I figured I was hitting the ball about a club further.

What type of grass on fwy and greens?
I will have to defer to an expert on this.

What are the various total yardages?
I left my scorecard at home, but I believe the course tips out around 7,200-7,300.  There are other sets around 6,700, 6,400, 6,000 (and down) I believe.

Thx for such a cool start to a Friday!

[George Freeman]

George,

Do you have a photo of the drop-off right side of the fw on #11?

Obviously, the terrain dictates this....but I don't think I've ever played a hole where playing aggressively off the tee (towards the left fw bunkers) gives a total sight advantage into the green.  As you know, playing it safe down the middle will result in the ball feeding drastically to the right and down the hill leaving no view for the approach.

It's a totally unique hole in my experiences playing golf.

Jonathan,

Unfortunately I don’t.  I was disappointed I didn’t have one when I was posting these photos last night.  For the first time player, you have no idea that leaking a drive to the right side of the fairway sends your ball down a massive hill (yet still in the fairway).  It is a materially more difficult shot from down there due to the uphill nature of the shot, the blindness, and a poorer angle.

Really cool feature.  One of my favorites at RCCC.  

It is one of those holes that gets harder AFTER you have played it.  The first time I played it there looked to be tons of room and I blasted driver down the middle to leave a short iron in with a great view of the green.  My 2nd and 3rd plays I hit driver again, once keeping it up top on the left, and once leaking down into the massive bowl.  Let’s just say on my 4th play I hit 5-wood to make sure I didn’t go right again!

[Phil McDade]

George:

Thanks for this thread; I can see why Shivas, er, he who has been banned, er, he who shall not be named on GCA said this was one of the very few courses that, given a tee time, he'd hop on a plane immediately to go and play.

The tee shot on #7 has to be one of the coolest I've seen, and the concept of a rock as a Principal's Nose strategic element is pretty neat as well.

[Tom_Doak]

G,
Great job.
What an interesting looking cse.
Couple of questions...it looks like a chaparral setting, what is the weather/season?
What is the elevation/ yardage change?
What type of grass on fwy and greens?
What are the various total yardages?

The weather changes quite abruptly in Montana, back and forth.  May through October is pretty dependable golf weather although it's possible to get sub-freezing weather on either end.  It's also possible to get 70-degree days outside that window.  The course remains available whenever members want to play it.

The elevation varies from 4960 ft. at the high point of the course (7th tee) down to 4580 ft. at the 17th green.

It's bentgrass greens, but dwarf bluegrass fairways and tees.  I was skeptical of the dwarf bluegrass providing a firm surface when we started, but the superintendent got it so firm and fast that the membership asked him to tone it down a bit.

[Jim Franklin]

George -

great photos and great memories. That plane Shivas gets is only after I am on it. Like I have said, RCCC is my favorite Doak course and top 5 course for me. Loved it and cherish the memories.

[Brian Finn]

Great photos...thank you for sharing.  I was at RCCC in July and it was perfect.  Sad that I only got 36 holes in, as it seems to be the type of place that gets more interesting and fun with each play.  Definitely requires multiple plays to discover all (or at least more) of the incredibly cool areas, particularly around the greens.

I think I may have a photo from down below on #11.  I will try to find and post it.  It really is a great feature.

I happen to have a card handy - course plays 7,466 from the tips.  I played mainly from the next set at 6,737, but sprinkled in some shots from both the back tees and the up tees (esp on par 3s) to get some different looks.

At ~4,500 feet, the ball definitely flew a club or so further there, which made 6,737 a perfect yardage for me.

[George Freeman]

The tee shot on #7 has to be one of the coolest I've seen, and the concept of a rock as a Principal's Nose strategic element is pretty neat as well.

#7 is a pretty unique and cool hole.  The drive is pretty daunting for the first time player, obviously because you have no idea what lies over the hill.  But, one quickly realizes there is A LOT of bail out room right.  However, the farther right you go, 1) the less likely you are to hit the turbo boost that easily adds 20-40 yards to a good drive, and 2) leaves you a long way from the green due to the dogleg left nature of the hole.

Really fun hole - I didn't feel like I came close to understanding it after 3 plays.

[Peter Pallotta]

Please excuse the ramblings of an ignoramous (who 'knows' Rock Creek and just about every other course profiled around here only from photos and write--ups) -- but of all Tom's work that I've 'seen' this strikes me as the height of his 'conceptual insight'. That is, the underlying approach and vision here -- present, I suppose, as the routing first took shape and before all the details and hazards and green/contours had been developed, and then informing all those subsequent choices and developments --  stands out as the determing factor in the course's success, as architecture and as field of play. To conceive of a course on that kind of dramatic terrain that seems to almost disappear within that terrain strikes me as a first rate and (ironically) bold artistic choice, and the kind of choice that only a mature and confident artist-craftsman would have been able to conceptualize/intuit/see.  I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, or even if there is anything to explain worth explaining -- but while some courses (all other things, like good routing and finishing work etc being equal) seem to have their quality/success based on the land, and others based on the variety, and others based on outstanding individual holes, Rock Creek seems to be anchored in and set apart mainly by that conceptual insight.    

Again, excuse the ramblings

Peter

[Tom Ferrell]

THANK YOU for this.  These photos really capture the place and have elevated high onto my "have to see" list.

Nice job.

[jonathan_becker]

I found one of my own.  The bottom of the fw on 11 looking back up to the top level where the horizon is the left side of the fw.  My buddy here is 6'5" and looks tiny.  You get the point....

[jonathan_becker]

Jonathan:

I've done that sort of thing before -- the 12th at Ballyneal is another hole where a leaky drive to the right leaves you a lot worse look at the green.  But the drop to the right at Rock Creek is much deeper.

Whenever I get to Ballyneal, I'll be sure to check that out.

The only other hole I've played of yours that would possibly compare to #11 is the 8th at Barnbougle.  However, the fall off is not near as deep at BD and that patch of longer grass is right at the point of the falloff from one level to the next.  Those holes are somewhat related....cousins maybe.

[George Freeman]

GREAT photo, Jonathan.

[PCCraig]

Thanks for the photos George. Rock Creek is a special place and an awesome golf course.

The scary thing is that your photos (or any of the place) really don't serve it justice. The different elevation changes, the scenery/surroundings, etc. are much more dramatic in person, in my opinion.

I thought the routing was fantastic and it reminded me a lot of Ross' routing at Northland. The front nine essentially climbs a hill (mountain?), then the player tumbles back down the hill with a bunch of longer, but very scoreable, holes that afford great views.

It's funny, when I played I was gently warned that the course would be a really hard walk, and that most players ride. I guess I was the first person to walk the course in 2013 (as of the end of May). Myself and Benje (a great caddie and guy...request if you're visiting) made it around in 3.5 hours not rushing by any means. I found the course to be a really enjoyable walk with little trails and a really neat footbridge on the back nine (shown in George's photos). I'm surprised more people don't walk it.

The course is just filled with great holes. #3, #5!, #7!, #8, #10!, #13 (from the wayyy back tee), #14!, #15!, #16!, #17, #18. I was told that #17 is most players' favorite hole, or at least par-3. But I thought #8 was incredible...what a scene for a par-3!

I credit Jim Franklin's praise (and good taste) in convincing me to make the extra effort to visit. I drove over early in the morning from Big Sky and had to make it back for a wedding that afternoon, so I was unfortunately limited to 18 holes. However the trip was absolutely worth it. I would strongly suggest others make the trip to see Rock Creek!

[Simon Holt]

Great photos.  Thank you for sharing.  I've yet to play Pac Dunes, Barnbougle or Cape Kidnappers but this is the Doak course I want to see the most.

[JimB]

George,

Do you have a photo of the drop-off right side of the fw on #11?

Obviously, the terrain dictates this....but I don't think I've ever played a hole where playing aggressively off the tee (towards the left fw bunkers) gives a total sight advantage into the green.  As you know, playing it safe down the middle will result in the ball feeding drastically to the right and down the hill leaving no view for the approach.

It's a totally unique hole in my experiences playing golf.

Jonathan:

I've done that sort of thing before -- the 12th at Ballyneal is another hole where a leaky drive to the right leaves you a lot worse look at the green.  But the drop to the right at Rock Creek is much deeper.

11 at RCCC was my first experience with a "Doak depression". I think right of 17 at Ballyneal qualifies but less fairway. I remember making the comment at Stone Eagle but can't think of the hole right now, also I seem to remember the low being on the left so it's not the "leaky" drive that would be penalized.

[Tom_Doak]

Please excuse the ramblings of an ignoramous (who 'knows' Rock Creek and just about every other course profiled around here only from photos and write--ups) -- but of all Tom's work that I've 'seen' this strikes me as the height of his 'conceptual insight'. That is, the underlying approach and vision here -- present, I suppose, as the routing first took shape and before all the details and hazards and green/contours had been developed, and then informing all those subsequent choices and developments --  stands out as the determing factor in the course's success, as architecture and as field of play. To conceive of a course on that kind of dramatic terrain that seems to almost disappear within that terrain strikes me as a first rate and (ironically) bold artistic choice, and the kind of choice that only a mature and confident artist-craftsman would have been able to conceptualize/intuit/see.  I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, or even if there is anything to explain worth explaining -- but while some courses (all other things, like good routing and finishing work etc being equal) seem to have their quality/success based on the land, and others based on the variety, and others based on outstanding individual holes, Rock Creek seems to be anchored in and set apart mainly by that conceptual insight.

Peter:

I have been saying here for five years now that I think the course is some of our very best work, and it's nice for people to start noticing.  The fact that the course came 4th in the "rank my courses" thread also indicates that maybe its reputation is starting to get past the magazines having largely ignored it.

Your comments about my "conceptual insight" are too kind.  Basically, Rock Creek's success depended more on its routing plan than any other course I've done -- because we had an unlimited amount of ground to choose from, and because the rocky nature of the site made it difficult to correct any problems with the routing.  It is "anchored in" by the rocks themselves.

The most difficult part of the routing was the part I solved first -- where to cross the creek at the top end, and how to get up to that point.  I had been considering a routing like we built at Dismal River, that started from a remote starting point and played back to the lodge, because I was concerned that the first few holes would be too steeply uphill to be walkable.  But I started trying to avoid that once I realized that everyone would get in a cart to get up to a remote starting point, and once I'd walked around the property for a few days, I thought that the climb might be manageable.

It was fairly easy to find the par-3 8th hole to cross the creek; if you could read a topo map, you'd see that most other spots were far too steep to consider.  The hard part was finding a hole to deliver you to the 8th tee that was NOT another par-3, because the land was so rugged in that section of the property.  #7 was a real leap of faith, based on my ability to read the map and visualize, because that part of the ground was heavily wooded ... not even Bill Coore would ever have found that hole on foot.  Likewise, #10 and #11 and #13 and #14 were all part of my original routing on paper, done before I walked the site for the first time, and they are really the backbone of the course for me.  The first three holes are Eric's contribution; the last three owe much to the client Bill Foley and to his friend Tom Devlin, who asked me to re-think avoiding that valley after I had shied away from it originally because of the overhead power lines.  So, the routing took several trips over several months to come together, even though I had the most difficult part figured out right up front.

[Cliff Walston]

Great tour.  Rock Creek is amazing and ranks at the top of my wish list.  Thanks for the effort in putting this together.  I enjoyed it immensely.

I am all for a Ballyneal, Dismal, Rock Creek home and away team competition over the next few seasons.  Anyone with me?

Cliff Walston

[Tom_Doak]

I am all for a Ballyneal, Dismal, Rock Creek home and away team competition over the next few seasons.  Anyone with me?

That would be cool, but most of the members at Rock Creek are content to stay there all summer.  I've tried to get a few to come down and play my other courses with little success.