[Grant Saunders]

Opinion and fact are often confused on here as people engage in debate surrounding courses they are passionate about.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and personal taste can play a leading role in the forming of those views. Sometimes though, taste and personal preference can override logic and conclusions reached more with the heart than the head.

I feel it’s important to be able to acknowledge greatness and this acknowledgment should be irrespective of your own personal view point on the subject. For example, classical music as a genre demonstrates undeniable genius with which the composition and inclusion of so many elements are crafted into a story. Lots of people are huge fans. I myself am not but I can certainly appreciate the talent and skill involved.

With that in mind, what are some examples of courses you have played where you were able to recognise the greatness but simultaneously it held no level of appeal for you personally?

For me and my limited exposure compared to most on here, I don’t have any great examples to offer. Locally, I would maybe cite The Hills as an example where by NZ standards it is a very good course but I am not that fussed with it.

[John Kavanaugh]

I really can't stand Lawsonia. It's all so fake to me.

[Brad Tufts]

My classic example of this is Stanwich in CT.

Just long, hard, not memorable, no quirk.

But seems to be the top course in CT every year.  Propped up by tournament history?

[Daryl David]

Spyglass. Can't remember anything about my rounds there that resembled fun.

[Grant Saunders]

My classic example of this is Stanwich in CT.

Just long, hard, not memorable, no quirk.

But seems to be the top course in CT every year.  Propped up by tournament history?

Brad

This isn't quite what Im getting at. Its not about courses which you feel are rated highly and shouldn't be its about recognising a course to be very good but you simply don't happen to like it. The reason for not liking it doesn't even have to be strongly justified. Sometimes people don't like stuff just because they don't.

[Chris Cupit]

Muirfield.  Great course. I appreciate the routing and the bunkering but every round there bored me to tears.   

[Tyler Kearns]

Royal Adelaide did not impress me like I thought it would.  Certainly some very good golf holes in the mix, but the greens as a collection were simply too tame to illicit much excitement from me.

TK

[Sean_A]

There are quite a few for me.  Didn't like is the perfect phrase because I don't hate them and indeed to some degree I admire them, I just don't love them even though I think they are great.  Trump International has to be the one course which really stands out.  

Ciao  

[David Davis]

I have several of these, in fact, far more than I care to write down as well and while they are all great courses, I wouldn't return unless it was simply conveniently filling in a gap on a trip so I'll just list a few famous ones:

Woodhall Spa - yes, cool bunkers but the same tee shot over and over. Nothing memorable about it with the exception of one short little par 3.

Oakmont - yes, fast greens and fun putting but the rest was rather industrial with the exception of the amazing clubhouse and history plus awesome practice facilities.

Shoreacres - only a few interesting holes and that because of the ravine.

Sahalee - trees, trees, trees

Torrey Pines - Love San Diego, the course is yawn worthy

Olympic Club - best burger dog ever but the course just doesn't do it for me, still had a great time.

I think I could also add 8 out of 10 parkland courses I've ever played.

[Jud_T]

Shoreacres?  Seriously?  Not sure I understand the question.  There are no great courses I don't like.  There are only great courses and overrated courses by definition.  Originally I was thinking of really difficult championship courses that are beyond my ability to play and really enjoy, but the best of these, Carnoustie and Winged Foot for example, still earn one's respect beyond the sheer demands they place on your game.

[Ian Andrew]

I don't think you dislike a great course, I think your disappointed by what you find.
Greatness is a very personal definition based upon what you particularly seek in architecture.

I think North Berwick, Prestwick and Yale represent the best in architecture.
I didn't find Oak Hill, Oakland Hills (greens aside) or Baltusrol that interesting


To David's defence:

I loved Shoreacres because its quirky and restrained and I admire those attributes more than most others.
I doubt it meets most people's expectations on first play because it relies on the quiet confidence of how it plays

[Grant Saunders]

Jud

See my reply to Brad. Its not about rankings it about acknowledging something is great even though you dont care for it.

Another example to hopefully illustrate my point: The movie Gladiator in my view was well cast, had fine cinematography, featured strong story-telling and flowed well. Yet, I did not enjoy it.

[Michael Ryan]

This one is highly personal, for me it's Muirfield Village.  I favor a draw off the tee and felt like it called for 14 Jack Nicklaus fades with the driver and 4 fades with an iron on the par 3's (I recall the pin position on #12 and #16 were back right, can't recall the two on the front nine).  I get why people like it but it's just not for me.

Mike

[Eric Strulowitz]

Pinehurst #2.  

I was totally underwhelmed.   Can't remember any of the  holes and there are dozens of courses in the area that are equally or more fun, challenging, and scenic.   The worst bang for the buck in my golfing life.  Great clubhouse, great practice facilities, amazing history, just cannot understand where the "greatness" of this course is.  

[cary lichtenstein]

This is actually a very good topic as most everybody is intimated by "the great course" and scared to ever say anything negative about any of them.

So without mentioning too many names, I've played some "great courses" that either bored me to death with their "subtlety" or beat me to a pulp with their difficulty.

I take no joy in hitting it 4' feet past the pin and winding up 40 yards down the fairway. That's not fun. Crowned greens maybe great for professionals with pinpoint accuracy, but it they had to play ultra hard courses week in and week out, they'd burn out very fast.


Muirfield and Carnoustie are ugly, tedious, difficult and boring. St. Andrews and Royal Dornock are wonderful.

If Oakmont was my home course and I never played anywhere else, it would strangle my energy and enthusiasm for the game. Pebble and Pine Valley are fantastic.

[Thomas Dai]

Most great courses probably have 'iffy' holes or 'iffy' stretches of holes. For example, I dislike the 16th hole at Royal Dornoch a great deal, but even with this blip, it's still a great course. Alternatively, and I realise this may be heresy to some, but IMO TOC from the tee shot on the 2nd until the final putt is holed on the 10th green isn't exactly thrilling, certainly not with modern equipment.
All the best.

[Carl Nichols]

Another example to hopefully illustrate my point: The movie Gladiator in my view was well cast, had fine cinematography, featured strong story-telling and flowed well. Yet, I did not enjoy it.

Why not?  Was it the subject matter?  Something else?

I could imagine someone saying "Winged Foot is a great parkland course on which to hold championships, but I don't like such courses as much as others."  

[Jeff Tang]

For me it's TPC Sawgrass. I can appreciate its strategy, angles, etc but I don't particularly like the course. Too many sharp, unnatural looking features in my opinion. I prefer courses that look like they've been there and Sawgrass looks way too manufactured for me.   Plus the fact that it's so demanding probably didn't help matters.

[HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry]

 .

[Jim McCann]

Thomas

Don't worry, I'm sure there are PLENTY of others who think the same way as you about St Andrews (Old) but are afraid to articulate their feelings on gca, knowing that such opinions are deemed as tantamount to sacrilege for many.

For what it's worth, neither St Andrews (Old), Carnoustie (Championship) or Royal Troon (Old) are ranked in my personal list of Top 25 Scottish courses.

They may be great courses (for many) but they're not favourites of mine.
          

[Frank Sekulic]

Torrey Pines-incredible views, pedestrian at best golf.

[Scott Warren]

Jim,

Out of interest, what's your Scottish Top 25?

[Ivan Lipko]

To be honest I like all the golf courses I have ever played.

[Jim McCann]

Scott

Just for you, I've whipped out my Caledonian Top 25 as it stands right now.

Note, only Castle Stuart, Moray (Old) and Renaissance Club are single play courses.

I'm revisiting Machrihanish Dunes tomorrow afternoon and, as it currently hovers
just outside this list, it may edge in at the expense of another if I find it as agreeable
as the first time I played it.  

Muirfield
Turnberry (Ailsa)
Kingsbarns
Royal Dornoch (Championship)
Royal Aberdeen (Balgownie)
Castle Stuart
Loch Lomond
Machrie
North Berwick (West)
Cruden Bay
Western Gailes
Prestwick
St Andrews (Castle)
St Andrews (Dukes)
Nairn (Championship)
Skibo Castle
Lundin Links
Moray (Old)
Renaissance Club
Gullane No.1
St Andrews (Jubilee)
Spey Valley
St Andrews (New)
Dundonald
Machrihanish

[Grant Saunders]

Another example to hopefully illustrate my point: The movie Gladiator in my view was well cast, had fine cinematography, featured strong story-telling and flowed well. Yet, I did not enjoy it.

Why not?  Was it the subject matter?  Something else?

Carl

I cant put my finger on any real reason for not liking it. Just one of those things really.

The irony of it is the Colosseum is one of the places I most want to visit one day.

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