Dismal Red vs Ballyneal, a boxing match

[Jimmy Muratt]

I think both are very good opening holes.  Neither is especially hard, yet if you get careless, a quick double bogey can easily start your round.  I often find it difficult to compare a mid-length par 4 with a par 5, I think that the 1st at Dismal is a bit more subtle.  It's the kind of hole where you step on the tee and see a potentially reachable par 5 and an excellent scoring opportunity.  There is a huge and inviting fairway, yet there are a few very well placed bunkers that if you get careless can lead to a big number.  The 1st at Ballyneal is more visually intimidating, it's one of my favorite tee shots on the course.  With a good tee ball, it becomes a hole that you can attack.  Yet again, being overly aggressive can leave you with a difficult recovery around the green.

Both have excellent greens, the 1st at Dismal is perhaps the most severely sloped on the course.  A front hole location can be quite forgiving as it has a bowl effect.  A back hole location is much more challenging and as anything short or left can collect down to the front in the bowl.  

They are two of my favorite opening holes.  This judge gives a slight edge to Dismal....10-9.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I don't have pics of #1 at BN.
Dismal Red #1, from fall 2012, with the old crappy cell phone.
From about 100 yards out.

Green from the right side.

[John Kirk]

...

[Jim Colton]

I just four putted the first green from 25 feet. Tom, start getting the dozers out here.

I propose we just let John K duke it out with John K hole by hole with Doak serving as third impartial (or doubly partial) judge. That has the makings of a great thread.

Winner gets the undisputed champ Sand Hills.

[Eric Smith]

People are going to get hurt and it will be messy

Only on the internet, thank God.

I hate boxing. I loved PUNCH OUT!! when I was a kid. Remember Glass Joe?

John, I count both you and John Kirk as friends and will enjoy following the thread with the two of you framing the discussion. Tom Doak chiming in from time to time would be nice too.

I did want to mention that there are (obviously) real friendships across these clubs. Friendships made via this website or sharing a game at our respective clubs. This rivalry, I think, lingers on the outside, not in. I don't feel the need to have to prove it here on GCA, but may as well share that I got a nice text from a prolific Ballyneal member the other day after his first trip to Dismal and what he wrote was pretty awesome. He didn't have to do that.

Next summer I'm looking forward to making an epic trip with some friends to include both of today's 'contestants' plus a couple other past and present 'rivals'. Our foursome is made up of a Ballyneal member, a Sand Hills member, a Colorado Golf Club member and me.

Doak, Coore/Crenshaw, Coore/ Crenshaw and Doak. Now there's a rivalry.


Brandon,

Thanks for the photos.


Ahh, the match..

I give an ever so slight edge to Ballyneal #1, for the simple reason that every time I step onto that green I'll twirl 360 degrees, sometimes twice. Any hole that causes me to twirl is a winner in my book. I'm being serious! There is a real sense of place standing there on that green. Especially after flying in that morning and driving out from Denver. When you stand on that green and look back at the clubhouse and over your shoulder to the hills and beyond, you have no doubt arrived at a very special place.



Red 1 is probably the least interesting hole on the course mostly because when you leave the tee, you are sort of just steadily marching up out of a bowl. It is prettier from the road on the drive in, especially late in the day. Really gets me excited about playing.

[John Kavanaugh]

I just four putted the first green from 25 feet. Tom, start getting the dozers out here.

I propose we just let John K duke it out with John K hole by hole with Doak serving as third impartial (or doubly partial) judge. That has the makings of a great thread.

Winner gets the undisputed champ Sand Hills.

Four putting while I sit in comfort watching the Braking Bad marathon. This is going to be easy.

[John Kavanaugh]

Damnit, I said I wouldn't edit. #BreakingBadMarathon

[John Kirk]

It would be great of Brandon, Eric or another photographer put 1-3 good photos of each course early each day to help out.  Thanks.

[Ben Sims]

Damnit, I said I wouldn't edit. #BreakingBadMarathon

Don't be that guy.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=57dzaMaouXA

[Stephen Davis]

While I am content on letting the John's duke it out, I figured I would add my two cents. Just for the sake of full disclosure I am a member at Ballyneal, but was one of the lucky guys who were at this year's 5th Major and had the opportunity to get around the Red course a few times.

I think these two opening holes are really great openers, which I think is one of the hardest things to find in GCA. Ballyneal has a ton of drama and gives the golfer an idea of what is to come. Hit a great drive there and you feel like the rest of the round is going to go smoothly, don't and well... Dismal Red follows the George Thomas theory (I don't know that it is "his" theory, but for sake of this discussion I will attribute it to him), of a gentle opener followed by a kick in the groin. Of the two green sites, Dismal's is more dramatic in its movement, while Ballyneal's view is one of my favorite on the entire property.  

Given the fact that it does give the golfer that opening hand shake and the great contours on the green, I would have to give the edge, ever-so-slightly to Dismal Red on hole #1.

[Jerry Kluger]

The walk to #1 at Ballyneal is certainly special but it is that opening tee shot which is one of the best you can find.  A sample of the terrain in the valley in front of you if you get too aggressive but it challenges you to take see how much you want to bite off which is a bit like Sand Hills but without the view.

[David Davis]

I too have had the opportunity to play both courses recently. Happily I'm -1 for 3 rounds on the first hole of the two courses. I'd have to give the edge to Ballyneal 10-8 on the first hole. Dismal is a very very gentle start in my opinion. The centerline pot bunker didn't come into play for me. and I played it birdie, par. I didn't have much of an issue with the green as both approaches were inside of 5 ft. Pure luck but I seem to remember a bit of a bowl there so maybe it's just hard to miss. Ballyneal was also an easy straight forward par.

Both were fun. Not a huge fan of the fact that to me Dismal Red is a cart course where Ballyneal is a pure walking course in my opinion.

Having the tee about 1 mile from the club house is a min point for me.

[Stephen Davis]

I too have had the opportunity to play both courses recently. Happily I'm -1 for 3 rounds on the first hole of the two courses. I'd have to give the edge to Ballyneal 10-8 on the first hole. Dismal is a very very gentle start in my opinion. The centerline pot bunker didn't come into play for me. and I played it birdie, par. I didn't have much of an issue with the green as both approaches were inside of 5 ft. Pure luck but I seem to remember a bit of a bowl there so maybe it's just hard to miss. Ballyneal was also an easy straight forward par.

Both were fun. Not a huge fan of the fact that to me Dismal Red is a cart course where Ballyneal is a pure walking course in my opinion.

Having the tee about 1 mile from the club house is a min point for me.

You make a great point here David. There is something really great about the walk from the practice green up the small hill to the 1st tee at Ballyneal, compared to the long drive from the clubhouse to the first tee at Dismal Red.

[Brandon Urban]

Both were fun. Not a huge fan of the fact that to me Dismal Red is a cart course where Ballyneal is a pure walking course in my opinion.

A cart course? Really? I thought the Red was a great walk. Are there a couple of tough spots, sure. But I think you can say the same for Ballyneal. I would rate each of them a 10 as far as walkability.

[John Kirk]

Here are my primary questions about Dismal River's first hole:

1.  Has anyone here started with a two putt birdie to begin their round?  It seems that with a following wind and a green that is in a bowl, trying for the green in two shots is desirable if possible.

2.  This green is generally two-tiered, with a significant elevation change from back to front.  Can putts from the upper tier down to the lower tier be negotiated in two shots.  To summarize, how big an error is it to miss long when the pin is short?

3.  Does anybody else see this hole as looking similar to the first hole at Sand Hills?  A downhill tee shot, with sand shoulders hiding parts of landing areas, a gently curving golf hole that is steeply uphill the last 100 yards to the green, are characteristics that both holes possess.  Not exact, but similar.  I thought the third shot played way uphill, perhaps one club for elevation and one more club for an uphill lie.

I walked the course and carried my bag, 55 years old in good not great shape.  I had no trouble walking.  Dismal River is very well designed for walking, given the elevation changes on the playing field.  The course shines in that regard.

[Jimmy Muratt]

John,

I reached the green in two during one of my rounds but proceeded to three putt as I was on that back right tier and the pin was in the front left bowl.  It's a very difficult two putt, but doable.  I hit several practice putts afterwards and you really have to run your first putt through the collar to take out some slope and kill some of the momentum.  

Going for the green in two is certainly doable downwind and shots played out short right of the green will kick left and tumble on.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Dismal Red is a cart course

David,
         I disagree. Carts may be allowed, but the red is a great walk. Now that the bridge on #10 is in, it's even better.
As an example, we walked 27 on day 1 of this years 5th Major. I can't say for certain, but Sunday morning when we played the red, you rode as your back had flared up, but didn't everyone else walk? Granted, we all rode carts from the clubhouse down to the course.  

[Chris Shaida]

... every time I step onto that green I'll twirl 360 degrees, sometimes twice. Any hole that causes me to twirl is a winner in my book. I'm being serious! ...

(between rounds break - is anybody else having trouble with the image of Eric 'twirling' on the green? Twice?!? JKa, in his new svelte form, I can almost see.  JKi in his ever-svelte form and grooving to an early Sly track in his head, no problem.  But Smith? Really?! Now back to the action...)

[Peter Pallotta]

Not quite yet, Chris

Barney said we could post even if we hadn't played either, so:

I take it Dismal Red's opener is a Par 5?

Hmm.

Tom D may remember may feelings about Par 5s -- but if this is a a boxing match, starting with a Par 5 is sort of like wearing your trunks pulled right up under your armpits: everything is a low blow!

[William_G]

how many golfers have actually visited both BN and DR?

I hope to do so next week and catch a Duck/Buffalo game.

Just barely fitting a trip into the midwest "golf season" 

[John Kavanaugh]

how many golfers have actually visited both BN and DR?

I hope to do so next week and catch a Duck/Buffalo game.

Just barely fitting a trip into the midwest "golf season" 

Will you be attending the Hunt for Red October?  Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Eric Smith]

(between rounds break - is anybody else having trouble with the image of Eric 'twirling' on the green? Twice?!? JKa, in his new svelte form, I can almost see.  JKi in his ever-svelte form and grooving to an early Sly track in his head, no problem.  But Smith? Really?! Now back to the action...)

Shaida,

I'll admit to stealing the move from Kavanaugh's go-to source for Denver weather: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbQSAdU4Qb4

[William_G]

how many golfers have actually visited both BN and DR?

I hope to do so next week and catch a Duck/Buffalo game.

Just barely fitting a trip into the midwest "golf season" 

Will you be attending the Hunt for Red October?  Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I'll be carrying MP 32s, Superfasts, Clevelands, and a Scotty....but would love to try "one Ping only", one of my favorite movies and from a book I read...

not attending anything that I know of, LOL

[Tom_Doak]

Here are my primary questions about Dismal River's first hole:

1.  Has anyone here started with a two putt birdie to begin their round?  It seems that with a following wind and a green that is in a bowl, trying for the green in two shots is desirable if possible.

Don Mahaffey and I played an alternate-shot match against the two golf course superintendents after the Renaissance Cup was over, and our opponents knocked it on the green in two and made a 12-foot putt for eagle, with the pin tucked front left.   So, it's doable, just not by me!

[William_G]

This should be good!  I'll stay on the sidelines,

points deducted from both courses, Tom Doak is all over this match, LOL