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DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #75 on: September 27, 2013, 03:54:50 PM »
Chris Johnston,

"Man up" and "say it in person?"  And here I thought I was dealing with an adult.  I'd gladly say "in person" anything I have written here.  I do apologize, though, if my "get bent" comment hurt your feelings.  As said it was just a play on the topic and title.

If you want to talk about A1/A4 or dominant bentgrass in the Sand Hills, why not start your own thread?  This thread is about what is happening at Ballyneal and, despite your protestations, you are no expert on what is happening at Ballyneal.

Besides, when you repeat your claims of expertise and deny the (obvious) conflict of interest your opinion brings with it, it suggests a lack of self-awareness on your part and further confirms that your "commentary" on Ballyneal is in poor taste.   I'd say that in person as well.

Is it really so hard for you to understand that when you "comment" about Ballyneal it only makes you and your club look bad?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 03:59:24 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #76 on: September 27, 2013, 03:58:56 PM »
David,

Only 17 more days on the Ballyneal vs Red boxing match. Drip, drip, drip...

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #77 on: September 27, 2013, 04:02:20 PM »
Been offline for  couple of days so have just skim read the new postings.

Chris,

Fescue will cope with 60 to 100 degree heat in an arid climate just fine and I know this from personnel experience. You do need enough rootzone depth and accept that it will go straw coloured but it will play just fine. In drought situations fescue will stop leaf growth and concentrate on root growth so in hot months you might only need to mow every second or third day. Rolling will help maintain the speed and stimping at 10+ cutting at 6.5mm is no problem.

Some people say that fescue is okay at a low budget project but this is wrong! Fescue is good at any project if that is what you want and it is cheaper than most grasses to maintain.

Jon

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #78 on: September 27, 2013, 04:03:51 PM »
David,

Only 17 more days on the Ballyneal vs Red boxing match. Drip, drip, drip...

Looking forward to learning about the courses, and I am sure the "judging" will provide some laughs as well.  But aren't boxing matches supposed to be fights between boxers.  I've never heard of a boxing match between the judges.

Oh well, unlike Johnston, I'll stay out of it.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #79 on: September 27, 2013, 04:16:10 PM »
Been offline for  couple of days so have just skim read the new postings.

Chris,

Fescue will cope with 60 to 100 degree heat in an arid climate just fine and I know this from personnel experience. You do need enough rootzone depth and accept that it will go straw coloured but it will play just fine. In drought situations fescue will stop leaf growth and concentrate on root growth so in hot months you might only need to mow every second or third day. Rolling will help maintain the speed and stimping at 10+ cutting at 6.5mm is no problem.

Some people say that fescue is okay at a low budget project but this is wrong! Fescue is good at any project if that is what you want and it is cheaper than most grasses to maintain.

Jon

Jon,

This seems like a recipe for--normally a wintertime issue--desiccation.  A dormant, higher mown turf during the highest traffic times of the year seems a bit iffy.  Please correct me.  

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #80 on: September 27, 2013, 04:36:21 PM »
Chris Johnston,

"Man up" and "say it in person?"  And here I thought I was dealing with an adult.  I'd gladly say "in person" anything I have written here.  I do apologize, though, if my "get bent" comment hurt your feelings.  As said it was just a play on the topic and title.

If you want to talk about A1/A4 or dominant bentgrass in the Sand Hills, why not start your own thread?  This thread is about what is happening at Ballyneal and, despite your protestations, you are no expert on what is happening at Ballyneal.

Besides, when you repeat your claims of expertise and deny the (obvious) conflict of interest your opinion brings with it, it suggests a lack of self-awareness on your part and further confirms that your "commentary" on Ballyneal is in poor taste.   I'd say that in person as well.

Mr. Morality:

Your comment didn't hurt my feelings, you said something both ungentlemanly and gross for this fine site.  Seems pretty clear that's how you roll.  Carry on, good sir.

For the final time, I never claimed to be an expert on Ballyneal.  I don't have to justify my bona fides to you, but rest assured I'm confident in knowing what I am talking about.  What do you know about anything?  What is your dog in the fight?  You certainly have nothing but insults to add.  

"This thread is about what is happening at Ballyneal"  Yep, and you hijacked a good discussion on bentrass and/or fescue greens simply because I commented?  Unlike you, I haven't said anything off color or bad about a terrific place, Ballyneal, on this thread.  One the other hand, you act as if I trashed it.  Nice try.

You failed to answer what you have contributed to topic of the thread.  Allow me to help...nothing useful other than plenty of bile.  I also have more class that to state here, as you refer to publicly, what I think of you.  

"If you want to talk about A1/A4 or dominant bentgrass in the Sand Hills, why not start your own thread?"  Try this, if you want to start a thread about what a bad guy I am, conflicts of interest, or unfounded problems between two nice clubs, why not start your own thread.  Rather than poison a thread that others have said they are enjoying, and no one but you is probably enjoying now.  Well played.

You, sir, ruined a good topic due to a thin skin, your jokes aren't humorous at all.  I am also happy to assure you, you won't enjoy the day you tell me to "get bent" to my face, or anyone else in my presence.  Now, please move along and please allow those interested to continue their discussion.  I'm happy to step aside as well.

Apologies to all of the Ballyneal nation for the discussion was a good one for a lot of people.  I like the people and the place, and certainly never intended it to become anything close to this gross.

The topic at hand is changeover to bentgrass greens at Ballyneal.  I have 36 bentgrass greens is a very similar environment.  There is no conflict of interest, despite your constant whining, innuendo and protestations.  It's a topic I was interested in regarding grass at a place I like, and I have kept my comments to the topic until you arrived.  You have not and never did.

Thanks for being the arbiter of taste.  It's good to know you care so much.



DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #81 on: September 27, 2013, 04:56:15 PM »
Is it really so hard for you to understand that when you "comment" about Ballyneal it only makes you and your club look bad?
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2013, 04:58:00 PM »
Been offline for  couple of days so have just skim read the new postings.

Chris,

Fescue will cope with 60 to 100 degree heat in an arid climate just fine and I know this from personnel experience. You do need enough rootzone depth and accept that it will go straw coloured but it will play just fine. In drought situations fescue will stop leaf growth and concentrate on root growth so in hot months you might only need to mow every second or third day. Rolling will help maintain the speed and stimping at 10+ cutting at 6.5mm is no problem.

Some people say that fescue is okay at a low budget project but this is wrong! Fescue is good at any project if that is what you want and it is cheaper than most grasses to maintain.

Jon

Jon,

This seems like a recipe for--normally a wintertime issue--desiccation.  A dormant, higher mown turf during the highest traffic times of the year seems a bit iffy.  Please correct me.  

To correct you Ben I never said dormant.

Jon

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2013, 05:01:07 PM »
Jon Wiggett, you mentioned temperatures up to 100 degree heat.  What about fescue greens in places where the temperature sometimes rises above that?  
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2013, 05:12:26 PM »
Been offline for  couple of days so have just skim read the new postings.

Chris,

Fescue will cope with 60 to 100 degree heat in an arid climate just fine and I know this from personnel experience. You do need enough rootzone depth and accept that it will go straw coloured but it will play just fine. In drought situations fescue will stop leaf growth and concentrate on root growth so in hot months you might only need to mow every second or third day. Rolling will help maintain the speed and stimping at 10+ cutting at 6.5mm is no problem.

Some people say that fescue is okay at a low budget project but this is wrong! Fescue is good at any project if that is what you want and it is cheaper than most grasses to maintain.

Jon

Jon,

This seems like a recipe for--normally a wintertime issue--desiccation.  A dormant, higher mown turf during the highest traffic times of the year seems a bit iffy.  Please correct me.  

To correct you Ben I never said dormant.

Jon

Jon,

I was looking for a bit more discussion than that.  Sorry if you thought I was being pithy.  

Let me clarify.  Isn't straw colored turf a precursor to dormancy?  And a grass that has shifted photosynthetic capacity from leaf growth (hence the loss of color) and towards root growth, isn't it more susceptible to further stress once it moves out of that period of reduced photosynthetic capacity, due to depleted carbohydrate stores in the rootzone?  

I understand your willingness to say that fescue can cope with these conditions and/or thrive.  But if Dave Hensley thinks it's time to move on from fescue greens, he'd know.  His knowledge on fescue is pretty extensive, and I've listened to a lot he's had to say about walking the knife's edge in northeast Colorado with moisture management, traffic, sustained high temps, and green speeds.  

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #85 on: September 27, 2013, 05:17:49 PM »
Been offline for  couple of days so have just skim read the new postings.

Chris,

Fescue will cope with 60 to 100 degree heat in an arid climate just fine and I know this from personnel experience. You do need enough rootzone depth and accept that it will go straw coloured but it will play just fine. In drought situations fescue will stop leaf growth and concentrate on root growth so in hot months you might only need to mow every second or third day. Rolling will help maintain the speed and stimping at 10+ cutting at 6.5mm is no problem.

Some people say that fescue is okay at a low budget project but this is wrong! Fescue is good at any project if that is what you want and it is cheaper than most grasses to maintain.

Jon

Jon,

With total respect, if fescue is fine, can you help me understand (conceptually) the need for change?  Is it as simple as the bend and fescue together?  Do mowing heights have an impact on heat tolerance?  I'm really trying to understand the matter as a changeover isn't cheap.

Thanks,

CJ

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #86 on: September 27, 2013, 05:24:25 PM »
Is it really so hard for you to understand that when you "comment" about Ballyneal it only makes you and your club look bad?


Nah, only to folks like you who judge others and are insecure or some reason.  If discussing turfgrass practices and changes anywhere are too sensitive, the industry and the game are trouble.

Lighten up, Francis.


DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2013, 05:31:28 PM »
No?  Well good luck with that.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #88 on: September 27, 2013, 05:44:58 PM »
Jon Wiggett, you mentioned temperatures up to 100 degree heat.  What about fescue greens in places where the temperature sometimes rises above that?  

David

I have experience of temps of 43C so about 110F but only through the high point of the day and that over a few weeks. It handled it okay but as with any cool season grass not as well as 25C. I believe one of the important things was that there was enough depth of rootzone.

Chris,

It is difficult to advise about a situation that I have no first hand knowledge of.

Ben,

if the plant carries on replacing moisture lost through the leaf by transpiration then it will require more water to avoid excessive drought stress. To combat this fescue closes the leaf blade and concentrates on root growth to get extra moisture. Don't compare th colour of fescue with that of bent as they are not the same.

I didn't say thrive. I am in no way making judgement or passing comment about Dave Hensley or his judgement. As someone who has worked in the golf industry for the best part of thirty years I would never be disrespectful to a fellow colleague except if I were to say it to their face and I do take exception in your implying I have questioned Dave Hensley's ability. If this is the way you think you should conduct a bit more discussion then I would say you are going about it the wrong way.

Jon  


Jon

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2013, 06:30:43 PM »
Jon,

I'm enjoying the agronomic discussion.  What little I know is academic in nature and not tested in the field.  So forgive me if I challenge field-gained experience with my textbook snippets.  What it seems that you're describing is photorespiration.  And from what little I know, when the stomata on the leaf is closing and "concentrating on root growth" as you say, the plant is actually tapping into carbohydrate stores in the rootzone to survive.  Is this mistaken?  

Also, I'm sorry if you think I'm conducting the conversation poorly.  And I'm sure you didn't intend to criticize a colleage.  It just appeared that way when you came onto a thread about a change in grass-type and stated how good fescue is at any project, how well it copes with temp extremes, and how cheaply it is maintained.

Cheers

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #90 on: September 27, 2013, 08:14:13 PM »
Quote
And I'm sure you didn't intend to criticize a colleage.  It just appeared that way when you came onto a thread about a change in grass-type and stated how good fescue is at any project, how well it copes with temp extremes, and how cheaply it is maintained.

Ben, if not Jon to offer his 30 years of perspective; who?  Sometimes I think the give and take gets a bit skewed as to the intent and meaning is expressed based on the linguistic style across geography and across professions.  

At any rate, I wonder Jon if you can relate not to the viability and eventual revival of the fescue plant from exposures for days on the high and dry end, but rather the low frozen and shut down end.  Jon, I don't think in GB&I, you have the sort of sustained winter months where you may have 30s=50s days down to 10-20 nights regularly, but.... some periods of below zero and high winds with it.  It isn't uncommon out there to have a week of mild 40s-50s, maybe some rain or plenty of sunny days, certainly some heavy dues over night, then all of a sudden an arctic blaster come screaming out of the mountains and settle in for a few days bouncing on or below zero.  Then I'd like to know what you think will happen to long term viability of that greens/FW cut fescue plant under an inch HOC (not matted swards of long thick and mangerly fescue in roughs) or if you have basically any grass species, where those previous warm mid day sunny 50ish day suddenly had 3 nights of high below zero wind?  Wouldn't the leaf cells juice up and start to have cellular activity of photosynthesis on those warm sunny days, then the plant cells (including portions of the root) get exploded in a few days cycle of sheet ice to melt to more sheet ice laying on the plant?

Once this much dead cellular material is in the plant structure, isn't that a pathway for disease similar to necrotic leaf spot infests blue grass and poa?  That freeze/melt from temperature extremes in late winter-early spring is what causes our winter kill.  Can fescue suffer the same necrosis in roots and host disease?  Thus, not only aggressive stoloniferous bent out competes the weakened slower growingrecovering fescue, it has a wide berth to grow into voids and accelerates the takeover.  

I'm only hanging in here with this conversation to understand the decision, that seems unanimous from several golf turf managers in the Sand Hills environment, to give it up and let the fescue go.  It seems to me that we have this ideal of 'links' golf of firm and fast, and all the charm or legend and lore of the fescue eminating from the 'old sod' of GB&I, but mostly the only learned decision makers and professionals still managing and nurturing the fescue putting green are the Bandon Resorts folk, who of course have nothing like the Sand Hills climate upon which to nurture their swards.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #91 on: September 27, 2013, 09:33:28 PM »
David

I have experience of temps of 43C so about 110F but only through the high point of the day and that over a few weeks. It handled it okay but as with any cool season grass not as well as 25C. I believe one of the important things was that there was enough depth of rootzone.

Thanks Jon. 

Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #92 on: September 27, 2013, 10:06:13 PM »
Jon,

I'm enjoying the agronomic discussion.  What little I know is academic in nature and not tested in the field.  So forgive me if I challenge field-gained experience with my textbook snippets.  What it seems that you're describing is photorespiration.  And from what little I know, when the stomata on the leaf is closing and "concentrating on root growth" as you say, the plant is actually tapping into carbohydrate stores in the rootzone to survive.  Is this mistaken?  

I recon that is about right

Also, I'm sorry if you think I'm conducting the conversation poorly.  And I'm sure you didn't intend to criticize a colleage.  It just appeared that way when you came onto a thread about a change in grass-type and stated how good fescue is at any project, how well it copes with temp extremes, and how cheaply it is maintained.

Cheers

Ben,

not only did I not intend to criticize a colleague but I did not criticize a colleague. I never stated anything specific about Ballyneal. Indeed, all I did was state what I believe to be true in a general way. A discussion/conversation is usually made up of more than one view point but this does not men that those who have differing opinions are criticising each other.

Jon

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #93 on: September 27, 2013, 10:22:42 PM »
Quote
And I'm sure you didn't intend to criticize a colleage.  It just appeared that way when you came onto a thread about a change in grass-type and stated how good fescue is at any project, how well it copes with temp extremes, and how cheaply it is maintained.

Ben, if not Jon to offer his 30 years of perspective; who?  Sometimes I think the give and take gets a bit skewed as to the intent and meaning is expressed based on the linguistic style across geography and across professions.  

At any rate, I wonder Jon if you can relate not to the viability and eventual revival of the fescue plant from exposures for days on the high and dry end, but rather the low frozen and shut down end.  Jon, I don't think in GB&I, you have the sort of sustained winter months where you may have 30s=50s days down to 10-20 nights regularly, but.... some periods of below zero and high winds with it.  It isn't uncommon out there to have a week of mild 40s-50s, maybe some rain or plenty of sunny days, certainly some heavy dues over night, then all of a sudden an arctic blaster come screaming out of the mountains and settle in for a few days bouncing on or below zero.  Then I'd like to know what you think will happen to long term viability of that greens/FW cut fescue plant under an inch HOC (not matted swards of long thick and mangerly fescue in roughs) or if you have basically any grass species, where those previous warm mid day sunny 50ish day suddenly had 3 nights of high below zero wind?  Wouldn't the leaf cells juice up and start to have cellular activity of photosynthesis on those warm sunny days, then the plant cells (including portions of the root) get exploded in a few days cycle of sheet ice to melt to more sheet ice laying on the plant?

Fescue will cope with long and very cold spells where it is frozen to a depth of over a foot. It will also cope with fluctuation of freezing, wet freezing at the start and end of the season but I have no experience of how it would react if this were to happen in mid winter so can not comment.

Once this much dead cellular material is in the plant structure, isn't that a pathway for disease similar to necrotic leaf spot infests blue grass and poa?  That freeze/melt from temperature extremes in late winter-early spring is what causes our winter kill.  Can fescue suffer the same necrosis in roots and host disease?  Thus, not only aggressive stoloniferous bent out competes the weakened slower growingrecovering fescue, it has a wide berth to grow into voids and accelerates the takeover.

Fescue is very disease resistant and so is less susceptible to dying from an infection but it can of course be killed as with any other grass type. As to aggressive stoloniferous bent out competing I think here you have hit the biggest weakness that fescue has. It is very poor at competeing with other grasses and maintenance of it is just as much about making the environment as unsuitable for other grasses through low nutrients and dry conditions as it is abut making it suitable for fescue.  

I'm only hanging in here with this conversation to understand the decision, that seems unanimous from several golf turf managers in the Sand Hills environment, to give it up and let the fescue go.  It seems to me that we have this ideal of 'links' golf of firm and fast, and all the charm or legend and lore of the fescue eminating from the 'old sod' of GB&I, but mostly the only learned decision makers and professionals still managing and nurturing the fescue putting green are the Bandon Resorts folk, who of course have nothing like the Sand Hills climate upon which to nurture their swards.

I am not saying that the decisions taking by clubs in the SH area are wrong but simply stating that it is possible to grow a high quality fescue sward in an arid environment given the correct situation.

Dave_Wilber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2013, 05:18:51 PM »
Wow.

Isn't this just a train wreck.

I've been hearing about this thread for weeks now and finally have had enough time to read it. Guaranteed an hour of my life I won't get back.

Let me shed some light that I think all of you need.

1. If you want to know more about the grassing choices made at BN, read my August 2006 interview here on GCA.

2. Bent. You all are throwing this around as if you know, but the critical mistake being made is the differentiation between Creeping Bent and Colonial Bent (aka Browntop). BN's greens were originally seeded in a Browntop/Fescue blend. With seed count leaning toward the Colonial.

3. Seamless Transition. One of the things that Camp Doak wanted was the seamless transition between fairway and green and the ability to mow the greens larger or smaller when needed. Much like how the 18th at St. Andrews is often mowed differently to catch a contour closer to the Valley of Sin. Tom and Bruce Hepner felt this to be one of the best parts of what we did at Pacific Dunes and we very much wanted to achieve that at BN. There was a special mix for Greens and Tees. Fairways much the same, but with more Fescue than Browntop to handle a higher height of cut.

4. Contamination. Contamination of seed is a very real thing and happens all the time. In the case of BN, a tiny bit of creeping bent probably ended up in the mix because the same equipment at the seed supplier was used to blend other grasses. My instructions to everyone were to blend seed at the site to avoid this, but to the original super (not Dave Hensley) it seemed like too much work and he let the seed company blend the seed for the greens. Around year two that decision proved to be a mistake.

5. Climate Study. As I have said over and over here and other places, we did an Awesome Job of studying the climate at BN. We knew the weather and soil temps inside and out. The Fescue/Browntop concept wasn't at all an unstudied move and I and many others stand by that.

6. Creeping Bent. Having said that, we knew that Creeping Bentgreens were probably a higher percentage shot, but they didn't give us the flexibility and seamlessness desired correctly by team Doak. We also knew that if the Browntop/Fescue greens were too difficult for BN, Creeping Bent could be interseeded easily and not be looked at as any kind of compromise or loss. In fact, at Cape Kidnappers we made the decision to do use Creeping Bent from the beginning without any loss of integrity or change in desired contours.

7. Current Ballyneal Situation. Dave Hensley is the MAN. I've said this over and over as well. I love Dave and love his heart and spirit for BN. I'm damn glad he hasn't read this topic, because really, all the discussion would be completely dispiriting to him. I've rarely seen someone put so much effort into making a place be so awesome. He does it quietly in a place where it isn't exactly easy to live (Holyoke is a scene like no other) and for a long time Dave has done it with little or no money. So at a certain point Dave had to recognize that doing the job meant looking at the situation. Fescue/Browntop fairways doing good. Greens having some issues that would have been easy to solver earlier, but no labor or seed money to handle it. Greens getting older. He told me his heart was broken when he began interseeding Creeping Bent, but that's the only way to make it work and really, it isn't a bad idea. My hat is so far off for Dave Hensley and his family for all he has done and I guarantee you, I don't know anyone else who could do what he does. A true master. But it was time for Dave to embrace a necessary and good agronomic change and be able to manage for that.

8. Playability. BN players won't see that much difference here. Most people could never pick out Browntop vs. Creepers vs. Fine Fescues. But he has to be able to fertilize and water with some degree of sensibility to create great greens. And that means development of a program that favors the weather and play at BN. The green speeds (which by the way you enlightened ones shouldn't give a shit about) won't affect the great contours.

9. Procedure. Dave has done test plots and again is way ahead of us all. He has picked a great creeping bent cultivar (SR1150) and will gently interseed into existing turf sward. There is no grand greens renovation going on at BN and if anyone thinks or says that, they are wrong.

10. Fescue. Fescue is not a failure. Ever. But at BN, we knew that Fescue was a 1-iron at low heights of cut. Thus the Browntop, which, by the way, is more common in the linksland than ever. Should we have done 100% fescue there? No. But I would have liked to try. Browntop is a much misunderstood grass and not an easy keeper. The blend of fescue and browntop is heirloom and traditional and we all should love it. But really Fescue alone (as proven by another Master, Ken Nice, and his Team, Bandon) is really good. Probably not for Eastern Colorado and we knew that.

Lastly...

I'm not going to hang around and answer questions. Doing that here has always lead to a gigantic waste of my time. Sorry. But it's true. Most of the folks that will come running love to see a dogpile more than they really want to respect the difficult work that greenkeeping and agronomy really is. You guys can be downright mean, not to mentioned ill-informed and many seem to just be spoiling for a fight.

What's sad about that is as Tom Doak has pointed out, because of the bad actors here and the amount of signal to noise ratio, the people that really know aren't coming by because really, why enter a flame zone and be challenged about every work and thought that make up what we do FOR A LIVING and not as a hobby. I've blathered on here lots about getting more respect for Greenkeeping. The way this thread shows up totally tells me that that crusade is a fail.

And having said that...read my latest Blog entry on Turfnet.
http://www.turfnet.com/blog/5/entry-443-an-open-letter-to-the-green-chairman/

Thanks for reading.
---------
Dave Wilber
Wilber Consulting--Coaching, Writing Broadcasting, Agronomy
davewilber@yahoo.com
twitter: @turfgrasszealot
instagram @turfgrasszeal
"No one goes to play the great courses we talk about here because they do a nice bowl of soup. Soup helps, but you can’t putt in it." --Wilber

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2013, 06:21:09 PM »
Thanks Dave.  Great post.
That one separated the men from the boys.

Shane Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2013, 06:37:24 PM »
Dave - excellent post.  Thank you for the work you do.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2013, 06:46:44 PM »

4. Contamination. Contamination of seed is a very real thing and happens all the time. In the case of BN, a tiny bit of creeping bent probably ended up in the mix because the same equipment at the seed supplier was used to blend other grasses. My instructions to everyone were to blend seed at the site to avoid this, but to the original super (not Dave Hensley) it seemed like too much work and he let the seed company blend the seed for the greens. Around year two that decision proved to be a mistake.


Is the original super around to defend himself? This is textbook consultant buck passing.

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2013, 07:14:37 PM »
Dave

Great post!  Great information.

<edit>. And Dave Hensley deserves a medal!  

CJ
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 07:45:48 PM by Chris Johnston »

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Ballyneal gets bent
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2013, 11:13:29 PM »
Dave Wilber,
I don't know about all the chastising.
First, Dave Hensley is a great superintendent. Remember, it was members from his own club, guys who have written the checks, who started this thread, and they all think the world of him. Talk to any of them and they rave about the turf conditions at Ballyneal. People at Ballyneal know how valuable Dave is. Lets hope they build on what they have there.

I'm very impressed with all the Supts in the Sand Hills. That is a harsh environment; short growing season, extreme cold and heat, wind, and none of them are working with the budgets many of your other clients are using.  They are a industrious and hardy group and they have my utmost respect as they are as dedicated to their craft as anyone I know.

Having said that, you'll find no great concentration of golfers who appreciate a traditional surface then you find here. Yes, we have post counters, and knuckleheads who only seem to be gunning for a pissing match, but ignore the noise and underneath you'll find some of the biggest fans of great greenkeeping anywhere.

Usually when the turf conditions are talked about at Ballyneal here, its with envy as in I wish I could play golf like that everyday. Most people know how good it is.

This us against them bullshit gets so old.