Rank My Courses

[Mike Wagner]

Ballyneal
Pacific
Stone Eagle
Sheep Ranch
Tumble Creek
Old Mac

[Daryl David]

Pacific Dunes
Barnbougle
Ballyneal
Old Mac
Streamsong Blue
Tumble Creek
Cape Kidnappers
Stone Eagle
Rock Creek
Ren Club (before)
Common Ground

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think I've played Tom's entire European output....

So I'll need to make it to Saint Emilion when that opens.

[Brian Finn]

Only 4 for me, but since others that don't qualify have submitted their list, I will also.

Rock Creek Cattle Co.
Streamsong Blue
Apache Stronghold
Legends - Heathland

[Chris Johnston]

Results will be skewed as everyone isn't looking at the same picture.  Here are my top 5 with comments.

1. Dismal River.  Latest in evolution.  Unbelievable Sandhills site, perfect (for the site) turf decisions, throwback innovative irrigation, complete freedom for Tom to build what he wanted and how he wanted, 18 very good holes, unique with outstanding variety, 100% fescue fairways hard and fast, restraint on (most) greens and throughout with great grass selection, fits the land perfectly, great surrounding views and backdrops - soul stiring site and place, walkable for those who want.  In the whole, 100% Tom and Tom's best.
2  Pacific Dunee.  First masterpiece, great sand site, perfect turf, open to all, great variety, fits the land perfectly, great property and soul stirring experience, great visuals. Walking only.  Arguably the best resort course in the U.S., maybe the world.
3. Rock Creek.  Later evolution.  Great (non sand) site, great turf, good variety, fits the land well, great course on challenging mountain glacial scree base, very good mountain vistas.  Ridiculously underrrated and great work on challenging ground.
4. Ballyneal.  Instant classic.  Unique site but probably poor initial turf decisions, fits the land seamlesly but less thematic variety, epic greens with inhibiting grass mix decisions, "bumps" in every fairway, Easy to walk a plus, but limiting to many in a hot place, very pleasantly understated.  Unique and very enjoyable.  Great comeback story!
5. Common Ground.  Great team effort.  Close to perfect for what it is and that is important.  Good grassing decisions for high volume, affordable and fun, mostly restrained greens.  A gift to golf and worth including.

Others:

OldMac.  Very good themed course/less freedom, Doak as Mackenzie instead of Doak as Doak.  Great fescue!, fun greens.  Challenging walk and forced to do so.  Not nearly as good (to me) as Pacific Dunes.  Very good, but overrated.
Streamsong - Cool reclaimed site and story.  Great grassing decisions.  Unique site and some very cool holes for the area.  A bit more difficult course and greens than expected, especially for a resort.  Completely turned off by the hype.

Haven't played but hear wonderful things about Barnbougle, Cape Kidnappers, Stone Eagle, Lost Dunes, Stonewall.  Like many, wish I could see High Pointe.

[Tom_Doak]

Unscientific results through Daryl David's post, counting every vote (even those who ranked 3-4 courses):

.879  Barnbougle Dunes
.861  Pacific Dunes
.791  Sebonack
.779  Ballyneal
.751  Dismal River

.650  Rock Creek
.640  Old Macdonald
.579  Atlantic City (? - Only one vote, by Paul Thomas)
.546  St. Andrews Beach
.541  High Pointe (!)
.538  Streamsong (Blue)

.496  The Sheep Ranch
.478  Cape Kidnappers (only 2 votes)
.454  Apache Stronghold
.445  Stonewall (Old)
.443  Lost Dunes
.433  Stone Eagle
.431  Stonewall (New)

.340  Tumble Creek
.328  Common Ground

[George Freeman]

Pacific Dunes
Rock Creek
Lost Dunes
High Pointe
Black Forest

Honorable mention:  Sheep Ranch (which I loved but I doubt it will be considered for this exercise).

I need to get out more...

[Robert Emmons]

Sebonack
Pac Dunes
Old Mac
Stonewall Old
Streamsong
Beechtree
Riverfront

[jim_lewis]

Pacific Dunes
Sebonack
Tumble Creek
High Pointe
Riverfront
Black Forest
Charlotte Golf Links

[Peter Pallotta]

I can't contribute but am enjoying the posts (especially those by the few posters who I know a little bit).

Tom - interesting to me that you didn't ask posters to include their handicaps, and you didn't ask them to note the number of times they played each course, and you didn't ask them to describe the conditions (wind, rain etc) on the day(s) they played -- all  elements/considerations that some long time posters around here seem to assume are critical to making valuable/informed judgements.

Peter

[Tom_Doak]

Peter:

I wish you'd played some of my courses as I would love to know what you thought of them.  It's not unusual that some of the deepest thinkers about golf architecture have actually played relatively few courses ... others are so busy making new notches on their belts that they never have time to think.

I might follow up with some people about some of their thoughts at another time.  If I'd asked for all of the info you suggest, I'd just find ways to disqualify any vote I disagreed with, and there'd be no point in that.

[Michael Whitaker]

It's expected that the Dismal members would be so enamored with their new course, but I'm surprised that they all vote Ballyneal down. Sibling rivalry?

[Jim Nugent]

Tom, didn't we (GCA) do an unofficial ranking/rating of all our favorite courses (Doak and otherwise) a few years back?  IIRC, the guys gave their version of Doak points to courses around the world, and then the results were tabulated to form an unofficial GCA top 100.  

I think that should give you a pretty good idea of how GCAers rank your courses.  Better, probably, than this thread, because the way you have set this up, courses can't have the same score.  

That thread also showed where we rank your courses compared to CPC, TOC and the other greats.  Pretty sure a lot of yours made the top 100.  

The only (slight) drawback is that the GCA ranking can't include your more recent courses.  OTOH, Dismal Doak hasn't really opened yet.  So I believe the main one missing is Streamsong, and this thread should give you a sense of how GCAers like it compared to your courses.  

[Thomas Dai]

Tom,
What % of your courses are at what may be termed traditional private members clubs? No slight (or even compliment) intended, I'm just curious to know how the new course market has progressed in the period since you've been in the business. Indeed, it would be interesting to know what the % would be for all courses built per decade since the start of the 20th century.
All the best

[Bill_McBride]

Ballyneal
Pacific Dunes
Apache Stronghold
Streamsong
Old MacDonald
Stone Eagle
Legends Heathland

[John Kavanaugh]

It's expected that the Dismal members would be so enamored with their new course, but I'm surprised that they all vote Ballyneal down. Sibling rivalry?

Mike,

Where should I rank Ballyneal?  Should I join and stop driving by multiple times each year?  Were you surprised by Colton's rankings?

[John Kavanaugh]

John - you should definitely check Ballyneal out once - surprised you haven't been curious to see what it's like

I have played there many times from year 1. I have not played under the new ownership.

[John Kirk]

Brian,

The JK has played Ballyneal before.  Nailed a 20 footer for birdie on #17 to close out a fourball match, with the other JK on the losing end.  He likes Ballyneal just fine.

Ballyneal
Pacific Dunes
Rock Creek Cattle Company
Old Macdonald
Sebonack
Dismal River - Red course
Streamsong - Blue course
Stone Eagle
Renaissance Club - old configuration

1.  Never to be invited again to Stone Eagle.  Wait, I'm a member!  OK, it's cool.
2.  I would rather be at Stone Eagle than most of these other places.  The golf course is less versatile than many here, but the ambience is superior to most if not all others listed.
3.  Pacific Dunes had an enormous impact on me when I first started playing it.  Nowadays I would rather play Old Macdonald (and Rock Creek) for various reasons, but Pacific Dunes will stay in second place for history's sake.
4.  Very hard to evaluate Streamsong and Dismal River on only one round of golf.  Not just the golf but the whole experience of being somewhere and playing golf.  Repeat play bias may be an issue here.  In both cases I've tried to elicit conversation to learn more, but it's a sensitive subject.

Thanks, Tom.  They are all great golf courses.  It's been so fun to see them created.

[Jud_T]

Butt Boy post of the day:  interesting to note that Legends Heathland is at or near the bottom of everyone's list.  Mind you this is one of the best courses of the hundred+ in Myrtle Beach.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Pac Dunes
Old Mac
Streamsong Blue
Legends Heathland
Legends Parkland*

*To count as 5th course.

[Jim Colton]

I'd welcome a calculation of the numbers with and without submissions by members of Tom's clubs. But does it really matter? These are just opinions, and Tom asked folks to post their opinions without worrying about what others would think. In that context, no one should be called out to defend their rankings in this thread, otherwise the Cone of Silence or whatever it is called will again reign.

The bottom line is Tom has designed a number of excellent courses, so it's not surprising to see a wide variety of opinions of what ranks where. My top 6 of his are all in the top 40 of the ~360 courses I've ever played, probably all Doak 7/8 and above.

As far as my ranking of Ballyneal, all I can say is that I'm a member because I love the golf course, not the other way around.

[Eric Smith]

It's expected that the Dismal members would be so enamored with their new course, but I'm surprised that they all vote Ballyneal down. Sibling rivalry?

That struck me as an anomaly also...

Did it strike you as anomaly that I rank Sebonack ahead of the new course at my club? If you'd like to go deeper - does it strike you that I rank the Nicklaus course ahead of the Doak? Note: I do reserve the right to change my mind at anytime.

Mike:

I think I told you and others at the BUDA last year that Renaissance was my favorite Doak course played at the time. There is no shame in placing Ballyneal 4th on my list. I have gone there every year for three years thanks to some very nice guys. They know how much I love it. Now you do too.

[Will Lozier]

1) Pac Dunes - looped on it probably 50 rounds/played probably 8 - so many unique golf holes with all kinds of drama, from totally subtle to cliffside...

2) Old Mac - only caddied twice on the 10-hole preview version but, thought it to be a TOTALLY unique course in terms of feel...

3) Beechtree - played it probably 5 times when living in DC and found it to be very underrated...can't believe it NLE...

4) Sheep Ranch - looped on it twice/played it once - fully expect it to be added to the BD Rota in a decade...

[Brad Tufts]

Pacific Dunes
Ballyneal
Rock Creek
Sebonack
Stone Eagle
Streamsong Blue
Lost Dunes
Apache Stronghold (in playable condition)
Stonewall Old
ACCC (included among "our courses" on the RGD website)
Aetna Springs
Beechtree
CommonGround
Legends Heathland
Quail Crossing

I'm holding out for the new St. Patrick's someday!

[John Kavanaugh]

I think it is fair to assume that Doak has matured and improved as an architect sine Pacific Dunes and Ballyneal. Don't fight it.