Ferry Point Progress

[Brian Finn]

I've been flying over it 2x per week all winter, and can't wait to check it out, despite the rates.  It looks like a fun place in a great setting.

[Mark Fedeli]

Cheap by NYC standards.

It's extremely expensive by NYC golf standards. Outside of Pound Ridge, which is a total outlier, it's the most expensive public course (by $30) within 2 hours of the city. It's twice as expensive as the next highest priced muni in that area and it's 3-4x more expensive than the average NYC and NYS muni price.

NYC median household income is $50k, not $500k.

[SteveOgulukian]

$70 for a golf cart? Do you get to take it home with you?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Reading this thread shows how few people have played Troon, or are being brain dead.  It is less than 300 yards from the 10th tee to the edge of the runway to Prestwick International Airport.  And unlike LaGuardia, they also fly military jets including the all time loudest Galexy.  And not much further away from 2 runways is Inwood.  Planes are not an issue.

[Michael Felton]

Reading this thread shows how few people have played Troon, or are being brain dead.  It is less than 300 yards from the 10th tee to the edge of the runway to Prestwick International Airport.  And unlike LaGuardia, they also fly military jets including the all time loudest Galexy.  And not much further away from 2 runways is Inwood.  Planes are not an issue.

Add TOC that's only a few miles from RAF Leuchars. Fighter jets fly right over the top of the course. At times you can't hear yourself yelling at the person standing right next to you. Crazy loud.

[Brad Tufts]

Reading this thread shows how few people have played Troon, or are being brain dead.  It is less than 300 yards from the 10th tee to the edge of the runway to Prestwick International Airport.  And unlike LaGuardia, they also fly military jets including the all time loudest Galexy.  And not much further away from 2 runways is Inwood.  Planes are not an issue.

Add TOC that's only a few miles from RAF Leuchars. Fighter jets fly right over the top of the course. At times you can't hear yourself yelling at the person standing right next to you. Crazy loud.

Not anymore as of last year...Leuchars is now an army base with no jets stationed there.

[Michael Felton]

I stand corrected. Haven't been there in a few years.

[Jeff_Lewis]

What a terrible decision.  The city over-spends by several orders of magnitude to get the course built, and now will restrict its use to those citizens who can afford private courses (if they can get times away from the non-residents). 

[John Percival]

Remember these lines in Jurassic Park..

"We can charge whatever we want"
"But I want everyone to be able to enjoy it"
"OK, we'll have a coupon day"

[Keith Grande]

A quick search of tee times on April 1, Opening Day, reveals many open spots available...and 4:30 "twilight rate"

[Philip Caccamise]

Cheap by NYC standards.

Not really... it's really expensive. Clearview nearby is about $40 to walk. Bethpage is $43 for the Blue/Green/Yellow, $48 for the Red, and $75 for the Black on weekends.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Opening Day report:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/02/nyregion/luxury-public-golf-course-run-by-trump-opens-on-former-bronx-dump.html?ref=golf

[Jon Wiggett]

Opening Day report:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/02/nyregion/luxury-public-golf-course-run-by-trump-opens-on-former-bronx-dump.html?ref=golf

Thanks for posting Steve

[V. Kmetz]

Holy smokes...I just saw those prices for play....the closest I'm going to get to playing it is watching from the fence, when I visit my uncle's grave in St Raymond's.

While I know things go up and up every year, everywhere, this looks this is going to be a private course in 20 years; after it hollows out economically, some consortium of entrenched 1% interests will take it over.

cheers

vk

[Benjamin Litman]

No doubt the costs are exorbitant--roughly three times the price of a resident round at Bethpage Black. Like Pebble, it might be a one-and-done kind of course for me. And I'd much rather play it now, with the turf looking nice and brown and firm, rather than in a few months, when it will look "bright green."

I think the Times headline nails it in many ways. But I'm disappointed that the Times, like other media outlets, simply prints as gospel the untruths propagated by Mr. Trump and his employees.

"Higher greens fees do not seem to have scared off potential players. In mid-March, the course started taking reservations for April. 'Within 15 minutes all the prime time slots had sold out for every weekend,' said Ronald C. Lieberman, an executive vice president of the Trump Organization."

I've been checking the tee-time website often, and that statement is false.

[SteveOgulukian]

I think the Times headline nails it in many ways. But I'm disappointed that the Times, like other media outlets, simply prints as gospel the untruths propagated by Mr. Trump and his employees.

"Higher greens fees do not seem to have scared off potential players. In mid-March, the course started taking reservations for April. 'Within 15 minutes all the prime time slots had sold out for every weekend,' said Ronald C. Lieberman, an executive vice president of the Trump Organization."

I've been checking the tee-time website often, and that statement is false.

I thought the exact same thing.  I was waiting for a quote from Donald saying something along the lines of "what a glorious day to open our course for public play.  You couldn't ask for better weather and playing conditions."

[Howard Riefs]

"Higher greens fees do not seem to have scared off potential players. In mid-March, the course started taking reservations for April. 'Within 15 minutes all the prime time slots had sold out for every weekend,' said Ronald C. Lieberman, an executive vice president of the Trump Organization."

I've been checking the tee-time website often, and that statement is false.

No doubt the Trump Organization defines "prime time slots" as 8:30 to 9:30 a.m. 

[Phil Lipper]

I played Ferry Point around October of last year and I never even noticed any air traffic at all. Its certainly not like Inwood where your constantly seeing planes land at JFK.
As far as the mounding it didn't bother me at all, it feels a little like Bayonne but certainly not as extreme. The one thing that I found a little strange  was the routing from hole to hole (we rode) was a little strange, it felt like they could have used a few more acres.

[John Percival]

In a different thread earlier this year, someone was explaining about the problems faced on landfill sites growing or keeping grass.
Apologies, cant remember who posted the info.

Will those issues apply at FP?
Was anything done in construction to mitigate the situation?

[Phil Lipper]

If its difficult to keep grass above a landfill it never looks like an issue when you play Bayonne, I have never played it when it hasn't been in great shape
It was in good shape last year for very young grass

[David Davis]

It looks like another links-like course that is set up to be way to green and playing like a parkland. The price tag on it doesn't make any sense at all in terms of total construction costs. I guess that's where tax payers money is going.

In terms of green fees. I'm really surprised by the comments that it's expensive. I mean 10-20 rounds of golf there won't equal the monthly contribution in the restaurant at most of the Long Island courses or for that matter other privates around the city. Bethpage is of course an exception.

Is there really that much quality golf accessible around the city for much cheaper rates?

[Jon Cavalier]

I just got done a round at Ferry Point. Here's the quick pros and cons.

Pros:
1. Fun course - I liked the design just fine, and was pleasantly surprised by some of the green complexes.
2. Conditions - conditions were perfect. Grass is still dormant and brown, and no high fescue, but the course was bouncy and firm, and the greens were perfect.
3. Visuals - the views of the city and the bridges are undeniably impressive, and the views in the other directions didn't bother me at all.

Cons:
1. Long rounds - when the wind is blowing and the fescue is knee high (which I was told today is the plan), the course is going to be brutally tough for weekend players. I see the potential for major traffic jams.
2. Noise - I was really surprised at how loud the bridge traffic is. Trucks coming down that bridge using the engine break are really quite noisy.
3. Cost - I'm good with $190 for the round. But an extra $70 for a cart for two players? I walked, but ouch. $14 for a hot dog? Just a normal hot dog? Adds up quick.

Anyway, those are my quick thoughts.

[Benjamin Litman]

David, the price-related comments all stem from the fact that Ferry Point is, nominally, an NYC municipal course. In that world, it is VERY expensive.

Here are the weekend rates at some of the other municipal courses (before noon/after noon):

Van Cortlandt $48/39
Pelham and Split Rock $48/40
Dyker Beach $56/48
La Tourette $56/48

To be sure, Ferry Point ($169/151 twilight for residents) is (probably) "better" than several of those courses--though they are all reliable and, in places, very good--but the comparison to "most of the Long Island courses or . . . other privates around the city" is a comparison of apples and oranges. The better comparison, as you note, is to Bethpage, but, as you also note, Bethpage's prices are much, much cheaper:

Bethpage Black $75/45
Bethpage Red $48/29
Bethpage Blue, Green, Yellow $43/26

[Benjamin Litman]

I just got done a round at Ferry Point. Here's the quick pros and cons.

Pros:
1. Fun course - I liked the design just fine, and was pleasantly surprised by some of the green complexes.
2. Conditions - conditions were perfect. Grass is still dormant and brown, and no high fescue, but the course was bouncy and firm, and the greens were perfect.
3. Visuals - the views of the city and the bridges are undeniably impressive, and the views in the other directions didn't bother me at all.

Cons:
1. Long rounds - when the wind is blowing and the fescue is knee high (which I was told today is the plan), the course is going to be brutally tough for weekend players. I see the potential for major traffic jams.
2. Noise - I was really surprised at how loud the bridge traffic is. Trucks coming down that bridge using the engine break are really quite noisy.
3. Cost - I'm good with $190 for the round. But an extra $70 for a cart for two players? I walked, but ouch. $14 for a hot dog? Just a normal hot dog? Adds up quick.

Anyway, those are my quick thoughts.

That's a very positive review, Jon. Thanks. I note in particular that all of your "cons" have nothing to do with the course/its architecture. When I saw the turf in the NYTimes picture, I was salivating to get out there ASAP and certainly before it gets green.

[Steve Lapper]

Guys,

   Even at it's "greenest" last year, it played firm. I really doubt it's talented young Super, Greg Eisner wants to overwater and soften it up like a parkland course. I am not saying its a true links course, but as Jon "so" Cavalier"ly" just said, "the design is likable (sic)"  and the course "was bouncy and firm."

   As for the earlier grass over landfill problem question, it does;t apply where sufficient sand capping and drainage is constructed. Only when corners are cut and landfills are thinly capped does it become an issue.

   Like others before me have said, only time will prove just how "right" the pricing is.

Cheers,

Steve