Chicago vs Philly - Who Reigns Supreme?

[Sean_A]

If I were going on junket, my choice would be Chicago.  I am not spending 10 days anyway (who does?) so depth isn't all that important.  But the kicker reason I would choose Chicago is that its a world class city.  Philly doesn't come close to touching Chicago for this and there is more to a golfing trip than golf.  Plus, I hate the Flyers and their scummy fans - tee hee.

Ciao  

[Joe Bausch]

I'd find this Philly vs Chicago discussion more interesting:

Make a case for which baseball team is least worst, the Cubs or the Phillies.  

Both have been around forever.  

Let me match them up:

World Series titles:  2 each.  Advantage:  Phillies.  There's not a member on this board that was alive when the Cubbies last won it, so I could have said zero or one and most would have believed me.  

Stadiums:  great old school vs very good new school.  Advantage:  Cubs.   Wrigley b/c there is more stuff right around the park.

Announcers:  Carey vs Kalas.  Advantage:  draw.  Both are gone now and I think just about all baseball fans would love to have them both back.

Classic beer:  Old Style vs Schmidts.  Advantage:  why would anyone drink either?

Fans:  Stereotypical easy-going Cubs fans vs stereotypical throwing batteries at JD Drew Phils fans.  Advantage:  Cubs.  Stereotypes aren't really true, but since Cubs fans invented throwing back opponents home runs and Phillies fans just copied it.

Stadium food:  Who knows what vs The Schmitter.  Advantage:  Phils.  Not even close.  

Looks like it is a draw.  

[PCCraig]

Both Chicago and Philly are great golf towns but Philly has the advantage of far better land. Most Chicago clubs are on lousy flat (sometimes swampy) land. Chicago has depth but there is a lot of mediocre junk too.

[Phil McDade]

I'd find this Philly vs Chicago discussion more interesting:



Classic beer:  Old Style vs Schmidts.  Advantage:  why would anyone drink either?

I was reminded yet again yesterday -- visiting the Chicago 'burbs -- what a crappy beer town Chicago is....

[Terry Lavin]

Prof. Jones,

Conway needs to be excised from your list. Rather pedestrian layout. As for the main question, Philly would appear to be the clear winner. Chicago has great depth, but not nearly at the same caliber as Philadelphia.

I included it based on its ranking in Golf Digest.  What about Old Elm?

My point is depth.  

Old Elm has a handful of great holes but it has 15 great greens.  It's 90% cachet.

[PCCraig]

I'd find this Philly vs Chicago discussion more interesting:



Classic beer:  Old Style vs Schmidts.  Advantage:  why would anyone drink either?

I was reminded yet again yesterday -- visiting the Chicago 'burbs -- what a crappy beer town Chicago is....

Phil,

What?

[Terry Lavin]

Phil, being from Wisconsin, is qualified to render this opinion, but a suburban rating ain't a city rating.

[Phil McDade]

Phil, being from Wisconsin, is qualified to render this opinion, but a suburban rating ain't a city rating.

Thank you, but if anyone starts throwing around Three Floyds, I'm going to object, your honor! (Apologies for thread-jacking...back to the debate at hand -- can Lancaster legitimately be included in Philly? I know folks who do the commute. )

[Terry Lavin]

I have no dog (or Floyd's) in this fight. Not a beer drinker.

[JC Jones]

I have no dog (or Floyd's) in this fight. Not a beer drinker.

Too pedestrian

[Tim Martin]

Phil, being from Wisconsin, is qualified to render this opinion, but a suburban rating ain't a city rating.

Thank you, but if anyone starts throwing around Three Floyds, I'm going to object, your honor! (Apologies for thread-jacking...back to the debate at hand -- can Lancaster legitimately be included in Philly? I know folks who do the commute. )

Phil-If Lancaster is included it certainly elevates a mighty Philly even higher.

[Terry Lavin]

I have no dog (or Floyd's) in this fight. Not a beer drinker.

Too pedestrian

Fat enough.

[Jud_T]

JC,

Old Elm should be 4th on the Chicago List and since when is Shoreacres in the bottom 8?

[Terry Lavin]

Top Five in Chicago:

Chicago Golf Club
Olympia North
Butler National
Shoreacres
Skokie

Next Five:

Medinah #3
Beverly
Knollwood
Olympia South
Cog Hill Dubsdread

Third Five:

Conway Farms
Black Sheep
Old Elm
Exmoor
Flossmoor

Fourth Five

North Shore
Edgewood Valley
Rich Harvest
Bob O'Link
Glen Oak

That's a lot of good golf, but it's top heavy, especially compared to Philly, and New York. .

[Bill Brightly]

Kevin,

If I have 2.5 days in Philly, would you recommend 36 at Stonewall or just the old?

If you have the chance to play Stonewall, you absolutely should play 36. As a fan of Doak, you really would enjoy seeing the contrast in the two courses. Built 8 years apart, the Old is a more traditional looking course, while North has more of the "Doak-type" greens that you would expect. Plus, I think the back nine at North has one of the coolest stretches of holes built on fairly flat land.

[Bill Brightly]

Jim,

That is an interesting perspective and I hadn't looked at it like that.  I think Merion is better than CGC and the consensus seems to be that PV is better than Merion so that would put CGC 3rd in the rankings.  

Of the next 7 spots in the ranking of 1-10, how many do you think go to Philly and how many do you think go to Chicago?

I don't know the courses enough to answer.  

Are you going to do the same exercise with New York?  

I haven't played anything in New York whereas I've played a sampling in Philly to get an idea of the land, etc.

That being said, an interesting question arises if you remove LI from NYC whether the "best course" shifts to Chicago.

You have to remove Long Island from NYC to give Philly and Chicago a chance in the debate...

[Jud_T]

Phil,

Half Acre's Taproom is one of the best around.  Only a smidge behind Founder's IMO.

[Tim Martin]

Jim,

That is an interesting perspective and I hadn't looked at it like that.  I think Merion is better than CGC and the consensus seems to be that PV is better than Merion so that would put CGC 3rd in the rankings.  

Of the next 7 spots in the ranking of 1-10, how many do you think go to Philly and how many do you think go to Chicago?

I don't know the courses enough to answer.  

Are you going to do the same exercise with New York?  

I haven't played anything in New York whereas I've played a sampling in Philly to get an idea of the land, etc.

That being said, an interesting question arises if you remove LI from NYC whether the "best course" shifts to Chicago.

You have to remove Long Island from NYC to give Philly and Chicago a chance in the debate...

What are the parameters for NYC? I am assuming Fairfield County CT, Westchester County NY, Essex County NJ, Bergen County NJ?

[David Amarnek]

Chicago is a world class city, but Philly isn't?
Ridiculous!
Culturally, Philly is light years ahead of Chicago and don't get me wrong, I love Chicago (my wife's home town).
Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, Ben Franklin's influences, Nations' first hospital, Nations' first medical school, Big 5 basketball, Barnes Foundation, Museum of Art, Rodin Museum, Phila. Orchestra, Phila. Ballet, Curtis Institute, etc., etc.
Food, I'd give Chicago a slight edge, maybe.  Vetri, Zahav, the Fountain, Alma de Cuba, Osteria, etc. are all world-class.
Chicago's bigger and taller, but that's about it.  I'll take the 17th and 18th century examples of architecture in Philly vs. the post-fire stuff in Chicago.
Lake Michigan is nice, but the Jersey shore isn't far.
As for golf, Philly is #2, only behind NYC/LI.
I've only played Medinah #3, both courses at Olympia Fields and Flossmoor, but have an invite to CGC and am very excited about playing there.
Jim Sullivan's Philly list looks good to me.
Medinah #3 wouldn't make the top 10 in Philly!

[Kevin_D]

Chicago is a world class city, but Philly isn't?
Ridiculous!
Culturally, Philly is light years ahead of Chicago and don't get me wrong, I love Chicago (my wife's home town).
Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, Ben Franklin's influences, Nations' first hospital, Nations' first medical school, Big 5 basketball, Barnes Foundation, Museum of Art, Rodin Museum, Phila. Orchestra, Phila. Ballet, Curtis Institute, etc., etc.
Food, I'd give Chicago a slight edge, maybe.  Vetri, Zahav, the Fountain, Alma de Cuba, Osteria, etc. are all world-class.
Chicago's bigger and taller, but that's about it.  I'll take the 17th and 18th century examples of architecture in Philly vs. the post-fire stuff in Chicago.
Lake Michigan is nice, but the Jersey shore isn't far.
As for golf, Philly is #2, only behind NYC/LI.
I've only played Medinah #3, both courses at Olympia Fields and Flossmoor, but have an invite to CGC and am very excited about playing there.
Jim Sullivan's Philly list looks good to me.
Medinah #3 wouldn't make the top 10 in Philly!

+1

And with Yuengling Philly has better beer too!

[Ed Brzezowski]

Plus those Chicago folks talk funny?

Jaeatyet?

[Steve Green]

New guy here.  Wanted to comment on your original list.  Chicago is blessed with an abundance of both public and private courses and should be on any list of great golf cities.  

I like many of your alternates over Cog Hill, Medinah #3 and Conway Farms.  Exmoor, Flossmor, Onwentsia and Bob O'Link have far more character.  The presence of a pro tournament does not make a great golf course, but lends to the over rating of Medinah and Cog Hill.

There are few places as pleasant to play as Shoreacres and Chicago Golf.  

Having said that, many of the courses on your Philly list are on my bucket list.

[Chip Gaskins]

with PV and Merion as the top of any "best in city" list its pretty hard to say there is a better town?  melbourne maybe?

[Andrew Buck]

Top Five in Chicago:

Chicago Golf Club
Olympia North
Butler National
Shoreacres
Skokie

Next Five:

Medinah #3
Beverly
Knollwood
Olympia South
Cog Hill Dubsdread

Third Five:

Conway Farms
Black Sheep
Old Elm
Exmoor
Flossmoor

Fourth Five

North Shore
Edgewood Valley
Rich Harvest
Bob O'Link
Glen Oak

That's a lot of good golf, but it's top heavy, especially compared to Philly, and New York. .

I haven't played all on the list, but I'd certainly put flossmoor, Conway, Exmoor and Olympia South above Cog Hill.  Probably a touch too hard but I like Bull Valley as well.  Haven't played any of the Philly courses, but certainly seems they have better land and I'd almost certainly prefer Philly.

I also heard today Tom Doak's work is done at Medinah and it looks great, just growing in and sound like a media event should be soon.  Hoping that adds another great course to the area.

[Bill Brightly]

You have to remove Long Island from NYC to give Philly and Chicago a chance in the debate...

What are the parameters for NYC? I am assuming Fairfield County CT, Westchester County NY, Essex County NJ, Bergen County NJ?
[/quote]

About 88.9 miles, enough to get Shinnecock and NGLA on the list of NYC courses.