What are the fastest greens

[Joey Chase]

Deepdale takes the cake for me.  Considering they get no play, they can really get them moving with no real concern for traffic on them.  

I also just played Lawsonia links, it was surprising how lightning fast they were.  I had never heard of them being so firm and fast.  With greens this size, I was definitely putting defensively.  Coming from continental Europe, it was a shock to the system.

[Matthew Sander]

Deepdale takes the cake for me.  Considering they get no play, they can really get them moving with no real concern for traffic on them.  

I also just played Lawsonia links, it was surprising how lightning fast they were.  I had never heard of them being so firm and fast.  With greens this size, I was definitely putting defensively.  Coming from continental Europe, it was a shock to the system.

Joey,

That's pretty interesting regarding Lawsonia's greens. The discussions 'round here are usually focused on whether or not they are too slow.

[Patrick_Mucci]

MPCC Shore in February; they were the fastest greens I have ever putted on.

Kenny,

They're certainly very fast, but Tehama's were faster.
MPCC's two courses are spectacular and they're kept F&F.
I think they benefit from an unusual micro -climate and playing "culture".

Friends who are members of both tell me that MPCC's greens are close to Tehama, but, I never played greens as fast as Tehama's

And, I've played Sand Hills, Five Farms, Oakmont and other clubs mentioned and they don't come close to Tehama's.

I had uphill putts and degreened the first two holes.

Yikes, what a shock to your golfing system.

As to those whining about the cost to maintain those speeds, I believe that the unique micro-climate mitigates costs to maintain.

MPCC, Shore and Dunes, have to be two of the most enjoyable courses one could play.
Width combined with F&F and a little heavy air and breeze to boot.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Patrick,

Personally I'm thinking Merion East and Stanwich were the fastest I have encountered.

I think this topic is a bit subjective as conditions can vary even on the most fined tuned courses. Depends on the day you are there.

Cheers,

Malcolm

[Ryan Kennedy]

Saticoy CC during any winter. Santa Ana winds will take them up above the 14 mark.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Personally I'm thinking Merion East and Stanwich were the fastest I have encountered.

Malcolm,

I've played them both and they don't come close

I think this topic is a bit subjective as conditions can vary even on the most fined tuned courses. Depends on the day you are there.

Not so.

I was warned that Tehama keeps their greens at very high speeds ALL the time.
Ditto MPCC Shore

[David_Madison]

Played at Alpine a number of years and they were shockingly fast, especially for their slopes.

[A.G._Crockett]

I played in a tournament and watched the super measure the greens at 12-1/2.  I thought they were slower than those at my club the week before. 

The impact of speed depends so much on the slopes of the greens.  Our greens are designed to be fast and are a bit boring at 10.  If the greens got to 10 at my former club you had trouble keeping a putt on the surface for many regular pin positions. 

I think this is a key point.  Speed is one thing; speed with heavy contour is something else entirely.

[Josh Tarble]

How many places have the actual speeds posted in the locker room?

I played East Lake a couple years ago and they had 12.8 on the stimpmeter posted up.  I found this a bit strange and also didn't feel like the greens even touched 12.8

[David Whitmer]

Double Eagle GC in Columbus. Every time I play there the greens are really quick...13 or so if I had to guess.

[PCCraig]

I played a men's guest day at Onwentsia probably 20 years ago (pretty sure it was prior to the work done by Renaissance). It had been a brutally hot, dry summer, and those dry conditions had extended into the fall. I could not make a ball mark on an approach shot, even with a lofted club's approach, and the greens had to be three or four feet faster than the normally very fast greens there. The three guys from my office who were in the group couldn't play dead. I don't believe any of them had more than one or two two putt holes for the day.

I found the challenge of the greens to be exhausting. I recall that my caddie was very good, and I think I made a couple based upon his reads, but putting from above the hole was almost impossible.

Mark,

I played in a US Junior qualifier at Onwentsia years ago and those were some of the fastest greens I have ever seen, still to this day. After 36 holes of competitive golf on those greens in 90* heat I was mentally fried.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Chambers Bay on June 16th this year.

I can only assume the supers were trying to burn out the Poa from the Fescue greens as they were bone dry, very straw coloured and like lightening. A number of approach shots trickled off the greens into bunkers and a couple of the Par 3's could not be held, requiring an alternative bounce in from kickers (great fun).
I didn't have many downhill putts as the balls tended to find the lowest point, however putts were generally very slippery but playable.

Some of the fairways were similar, where strongly inclined areas could propel the ball at speed off the fairway into the waste areas.

I've no idea of the Stimpmeter reading.

Chambers Bay - please keep the set up that way for the US Open 2015.

The course would still be playable, but the players will have to put course management very high on the agenda to make sure they avoid the wrong parts of the fairway and are on the right side of the pin when putting.

The entertainment value of watching wayward balls bouncing off into waste areas would make for compulsive viewing.

[Thomas Dai]

Surely it's not a case of what green speeds can be achieved on one given day or for the period of a tournament, but what are consistently the fastest greens over a prolonged period of time, like a whole season or several seasons? As an aside, I can recall uphill putts that were downwind being faster than downhill putts that were into the wind! Crazy game sometimes. Still love it though.
All the best.

[MMcCollins]

No doubt- Sherwood CC.  13 on a normal day. It was totally unreal. 

[David Davis]

I'm really surprised there is so little love for the sand belt greens. While a lot of people are mentioned the one time it was 100 degrees and there was a draught back in 67' and the greens were baked out as the fastest, I'm certain that this hard fast conditioning is normal in OZ. Incidentally, every year during the Masters when the comment on green speed the commentators always chime in about the fastest greens in the world being in the Sand Belt as well. Perhaps they are not the experts I guess.

Sand Hills was about 38 degrees on the two days I was there and sure the greens were fast, MPCC courses, sure also fast but not even close to Sand Belt courses. Go putt on the marble floor at your local bank, that's more like it ha ha...

[Tom Fagerli]

Northland CC downhill down grain.

[Jeff Spittel]

I agree with the Deepdale nomination. Between the pace and slopes, those greens are a serious test.

[Andrew Buck]

I played a men's guest day at Onwentsia probably 20 years ago (pretty sure it was prior to the work done by Renaissance). It had been a brutally hot, dry summer, and those dry conditions had extended into the fall. I could not make a ball mark on an approach shot, even with a lofted club's approach, and the greens had to be three or four feet faster than the normally very fast greens there. The three guys from my office who were in the group couldn't play dead. I don't believe any of them had more than one or two two putt holes for the day.

I found the challenge of the greens to be exhausting. I recall that my caddie was very good, and I think I made a couple based upon his reads, but putting from above the hole was almost impossible.

Mark,

I played in a US Junior qualifier at Onwentsia years ago and those were some of the fastest greens I have ever seen, still to this day. After 36 holes of competitive golf on those greens in 90* heat I was mentally fried.

funny ... was it around 1992'ish?  If so I was in that field, and immediately remembered putting it off one of the greens that day.  I believe it was the first hole of my second 18, and I believe they actually mowed the greens again between rounds.

I had the same thought as you when I saw the original post.  I wasn't sure if they were really *that* fast, or if my lack of experience at the time had framed my memory, but the were a shock to the system for sure. 

[Andrew Buck]

No doubt- Sherwood CC.  13 on a normal day. It was totally unreal.  

While I certainly don't doubt that many on here have played some of the fastest greens anywhere, I think it's really hard for most club golfers to understand how crazy fast 13 is.  I played in a state am qualifier at Pekin Country Club a couple years ago and they were a "legit" 13.  I remember player after player dropping balls on the putting green and proceeding to putt a 10 foot attempt 50 feet and off the green.  

Most people see it so rarely, that it's just a number until you feel it.  

[Ed Brzezowski]

No love for Winged Foot, either course?

Played there two years ago and watched a good friend who can really putt degreen himself four times. I forget the hole, a par three, where the caddy told him to just touch it, which he did.  Watched the putt roll forever.

[MMcCollins]

I understand your thoughts on what the number is, being a professional, and playing on some of the larger stages in golf, I have seen what those numbers are and what it feels like.  Day in and day out, Tour courses are prepped well in advance and are very careful until the event.  I have played all the courses on this forum page, well most of them and yes Oakmont and Winged Foot and Onwentsia are all crazy, but Deepdale and Seminole and Augusta even are great.  But until you saw Sherwood, on a Thursday in March, its beyond all those others.  This is an open discussion about this and is very very subjective to each player, but I absolutely know what 13 feels like.

[Andrew Buck]

I understand your thoughts on what the number is, being a professional, and playing on some of the larger stages in golf, I have seen what those numbers are and what it feels like.  Day in and day out, Tour courses are prepped well in advance and are very careful until the event.  I have played all the courses on this forum page, well most of them and yes Oakmont and Winged Foot and Onwentsia are all crazy, but Deepdale and Seminole and Augusta even are great.  But until you saw Sherwood, on a Thursday in March, its beyond all those others.  This is an open discussion about this and is very very subjective to each player, but I absolutely know what 13 feels like.

I apologize if my response came off in a way that contested your understanding of the number, it really wasn't meant to be.  It was designed more as an affirmation that 13, IMO, is indeed unreal.  My contention is most member players (not this group) have no idea what they are asking for when they want greens to roll 13.    

My response was mostly because from reading this thread, I got the impression some think 13 "isn't that fast".  I was trying to make a general statement building on your statement that 13 at Sherwood on a regular day is unreal. 

[Andrew Buck]

double post

[Pete_Pittock]

Pronghorn Fazio. They apologized to me because the greens were only stimping at 13.

[Thomas Dai]

A greenspeed of 13, or any other greenspeed number for that matter, is of course, an average taken from two opposing directions. 13 averaged on the flat is going to produce a much higher number when you're putting downhill on that same surface, yet it's the speed-of-light downhill putts that stick in the memory. As an aside, I've putted on greens that were like glass downhill, real hit it with your shadow style, but uphill on the same green, jeez you had to absolutely wack the ball to get it up to holeside.
All the best.