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jeffwarne

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Re: DEVEREUX EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON 9/25
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2013, 07:00:13 PM »
Nice playing this week Robert
Good seeing you again
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DEVEREUX EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON 9/25
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2013, 07:39:47 PM »
Unfortunately I am going to have miss the day out at Huntington. What a great golf course, clubhouse and vibe. Enjoy gents! :)

David Harshbarger

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Re: DEVEREUX EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON 9/25
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2013, 07:45:43 PM »
Weather looks perfect: high 71 with sun, sun, sun.

Looking forward to seeing everyone there.

Dave
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON Sept.25 9 to 930 tee off
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2013, 03:59:25 PM »
Our tee times will be a bit earlier   9  AM to 930.    Please let me know if you plan to attend ASAP.

thank you

Mark

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DEVEREUX EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON 9/25
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2013, 04:49:40 PM »
Have a great time guys. I wish I could join you, but too much on the plate this year.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2013, 03:45:09 PM »
Ed,

Sorry you cant make it. You would love Devereux's  holes at  Huntington. I hope you can jopin us at the spring 2014  event

Mark
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 04:35:16 PM by mark chalfant »

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2013, 08:02:25 PM »
Still planning on being there.  Thanks for putting this together.  See you tomorrow.

Dave
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

SteveOgulukian

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2013, 07:54:15 PM »
Great day today at a wonderful club.  It was great meeting you guys and a special thanks to Mark and our gracious host Rob.

Snapped two pics today and love this one of 11.  Think this was my favorite hole on the course.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 07:55:58 PM by SteveOgulukian »

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2013, 10:58:32 PM »
Thank you to our hosts and Mark to having us out to a wonderful Emmet course.  103 years on this course continues to delight and challenge.

The thing I liked most about Huntington CC is how the holes speak through the ground contours as you see them from the tee then experience them on the course.  By this I mean each hole presents a strong look from the tee, sometimes expansive, sometimes rolling, a few times blind, but in each case engaging.  While the course has 150! bunkers, and they certainly help accent the story, it's the roll of the land that makes the story.

About those 150 bunkers.  The story is that Emmet, Emmet, and Tull reworked the 1910 design in 1929 to bring it up to date.  This was a renovation with hole changes, additions, reroutings.  The course in place today is largely this renovation, and this is from late in Emmet's career.  My feeling was that this is Emmet at his most evolved, though the historians can correct me.  There is just so much variety in the bunkers: pots, swirls, islands, a horseshoe, a donut, church pews, an "E", a vase, stair steps, footprints, minefields.  The bunkers are confident, present, in play, yet whimsical and playful.  

In form the bunkers are flatish  with grass faces. As you can imagine from the styles, the faces often wrap around in all directions, not just flush towards the tee and banked towards the green in the traditional "directional" mold.  This stylization is reflected in play as great variety in uphill, side hill, and downhill lies for balls in the bunker complexes.  Contrast this to the popular sand faced bunker, which is larger in area, but by funneling most shots off the sand faces into the bunker bases result in much less variety of recovery shots.

Huntington's greens are excellent. Why?  They work well through a tight coupling of 1.) green surfaces that extend out to 2.)surrounding perimeter features that are 3.) laid across/perched on/built into the topographic contours.

1.) the green surfaces are not "big" but are scaled well for the site and course.  In typical Emmet style most of the green surface challenges come from tilt, and subtle internal counters.  Tilt spans the compass, and on some holes is obfuscated through deception via juxtaposition: back-front tilt is exaggerated on 8 by building up a green pad on ground falling front to back.  On 15, the opposite occurs, as back to front tilt is "flattened" with an elongated green on a false flat following a long climb up from the fairway.

Most of the internal contours are subtle, or gentle, and are part of the green more than an extension of features outside the green.  Because the greens fill the footpads, and extend directly out to the perimeter features, the perimeter mounds are often reflected in sideboard type features at green edges.  However, unlike Ross at Sagamore, for instance, perimeter features are not used to bring spines or plateaus into the green. The green contours follow their own logic.

Interestingly, 13 and 14 present back to back tiered greens. I don't think of Emmet as a tiered green designer, but here there are two two-tiered greens in a row, very well done.  Interestingly, whereas most tiered greens I've seen divide the entire green into tiers,  both of these have the tiers come together on one side in a sloping section about 1/8th the green width.

2.) the surrounding perimeter features are excellent in variety and structure, and they are tightly connected to greens. Nowhere that I recall (other than at green entrances fronting crossing bunkers) was there an expanse of non-green between the green perimeter and features.  So if there are mounds at the green, the green runs upto or slightly onto their flank.  If there are drop-offs the green extends to the drop off point, which continues downward as rough.

The effect of this is that while the greens are smallish, they fill the space as defined by the perimeter features.  I think this is what gives them the feel of proper scale.

3.) Generally speaking, Emmet greens lay at grade, or at least start there.  At Huntington many greens are truly at grade, but others are built up on one side or another.  6 is cut into a side hill and built up with a drop off opposite the cut.  8 is built up on ground falling away. 7, the road hole, is set in relief with the bunkers the result of carving the green from the land.  15, one of my favorites, extends out along a point bounded by OB and a steep drop, but due to the false flat of the point, feels grounded, not isolated.

Finally, Huntington shows yet again that Emmet's work is sophisticated.  His work creates challenge and interest to the golfer.  And, I think importantly, Emmet's work reflects a unique sensibility, and Huntington represents a full realization of his sensibilities.

Mr. Emmons is too modest in what he has done to breathe life back into this Emmet creation.  This is living Emmet, and I encourage anyone interested in understanding the work of this master to visit Huntington CC.


« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 11:34:58 PM by David Harshbarger »
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2013, 11:29:18 PM »
Another great feature is that a couple of greeens are sneaky very severe--11 and 15 have big time slope that flows so well with the terrain that downhill putts usually surprise the golfer when they go many more feet past the cup than imaginable.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2013, 08:19:25 AM »
Thanks for the photo and descriptions. Sounds like an interesting course to study and play golf on. Why do you think this course doesn't have a wider audience? Too short, private, or something else?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2013, 02:11:57 PM »
Steve, Dave,  Allan, Rob and Tom,

It was absolutely great being at Huntington with you. Rob , a special thanks to you for hosting us, even  when you had long trip ahead  of you !  As usual the food the charming clubhouse and staff  were just wonderful.  The brilliant design of the course, and Glenn's magnificent work as greens keeper,  led to an unforgettable  autumn golf outing for the Devereux Emmet Society.  Thanks again Rob and all the golfers who came out to HCC.


Mark

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2013, 02:23:59 PM »
Great day today at a wonderful club.  It was great meeting you guys and a special thanks to Mark and our gracious host Rob.

Snapped two pics today and love this one of 11.  Think this was my favorite hole on the course.



Great picture David!  10 and 11 are definitely an fantastic use of a corner of the property.
Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2013, 09:47:36 PM »
Mark, wish I could took put my name on that photo but that is all SteveO.

10 is 3-act hole.  Drive. Approach.  Green.

On the drive you see a vanishing fairway.

On the approach you see a massive bunker complex on the ledge of the hill, hidden at the green.

Then the green falls away with an hourglass entrance, hidden from the approach.

It's a sophisticated hole.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON this WEDNESDAY
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2013, 02:42:02 PM »
David,

Thanks for your sharp analysis of  Emmet's green complexes and his design tendencies. He was very attuned to sense of scale, both in overall routings as well as around the green. He also embraced nuance and subtlety during his career. It was great to see you on Wednesday.

Mark

Mark McKeever

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Re: DEVEREUX EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2013, 01:08:39 PM »
Sorry Steve, props on the photo!

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Robert Emmons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DEVEREUX EMMET SOCIETY, HUNTINGTON
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2013, 09:59:46 AM »
To all, Glad we had fun on a picture perfect fall day....Mark, Thank You for continuing to show Dev as a true genius...Dave, a very well written look at a 103 year old Emmet with a educated view....Ed, probably all those reasons, over 100 years as a very private in the neighborhood of Creek, Piping and Nassau and 6,450 on the card...RHE    

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