Sure, there's been rain; and sure, much is to be played out-but....

[V. Kmetz]

From a TV watching standpoint, this is more boring than the history of paper weights...

Shot after shot of "Lawn Jarts"...no big cautions, no fundamental decisions how to play the holes, very little in the way of sustained stretches or decision-gauntlets...nothing to sink my teeth into.

The newer hazard iterations, indeed look like they were put in two weeks ago,

I know Merion and Muirfield received strident critique for their presentation but this is a great big bore, right now.

cheers

vk

[Dan Herrmann]

+1

[Mike Schott]

Oh yeah. Every hole is a narrow fairway, long rough framed by trees, tee shot to an elevated green guarded by flanking traps.

[Cliff Walston]

Highlight of the day from a GCA standpoint was seeing Keegan's caddie rock a Ballyneal shirt.

[Richard Choi]

How much of the course is still original Ross?

[Ed Homsey]

In a rather lively discussion a couple of days ago, Geoff Shackleford declared that Oak Hill CC's East course is not a Ross course, giving examples of a hole where you can see traces of four different architects.  Certainly, there have been significant routing changes, major rebuilds of greens, thousands of trees planted, and who knows if there are any bunkers that are anywhere near original locations. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Since I am the only one to stridently support Oak Hill this week, what exactly would help this golf course, in your eyes?

If you support taking it out of the rotation, say it.

If you believe in tree removal, declare it.

If you suggest different mowing heights, proclaim it.

have at it.

[Steve Lapper]

Since I am the only one to stridently support Oak Hill this week, what exactly would help this golf course, in your eyes?


If you support taking it out of the rotation, say it.

If you believe in tree removal, declare it.

If you suggest different mowing heights, proclaim it.

have at it.

MAKE IT A YEARLY PGA STOP....just as boring as most of the rest.

REMOVE 800 TREES...then we can at least re-examine it and see if any of the original Ross features remain

WHO CARES about the MOWING....still soooooo boring!!

VOTE IT GD TOP TEN!

[Jud_T]

Hey there's only 8 more Majors before Adam Scott will be selling shirts and giving lessons to Mrs. Havencamp down under.  Enjoy the image of a guy imitating a grandfather clock while you can.

[BHoover]

Hey there's only 8 more Majors before Adam Scott will be selling shirts and giving lessons to Mrs. Havencamp down under.  Enjoy the image of a guy imitating a grandfather clock while you can.

That's why I hope he wins every major, just to spite you guys.

[BHoover]

Since I am the only one to stridently support Oak Hill this week, what exactly would help this golf course, in your eyes?

If you support taking it out of the rotation, say it.

If you believe in tree removal, declare it.

If you suggest different mowing heights, proclaim it.

have at it.

I'm a fan of Oak Hill. I don't give a damn what anyone here thinks. I don't think it's boring. I certainly don't think it's anywhere close to the worst course to host a major recently. I like it.

[Ed Homsey]

With one exception, the major tournaments at Oak Hill CC have produced great champions.  It is apparent from the current leaderboard that another great champion will be crowned on Sunday.  I think it has been, and continues to be a great venue for a major tournament.  My only beef are those who continue to tout the East course as a Ross course, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it is a course that requires great play in order to score.  Elsewhere, someone expressed the opinion that the trees of Oak Hill have little influence on play.  I cannot believe someone could say that.  Play the 7th hole without taking into account the trees on the left, and nearer the green, the trees on the right.  With Thursday's right-front pin position, the trees on that hole exerted great influence.  Other holes could be cited where trees influence play.

[Dan Herrmann]

Ron - I'd remove about 70% of the trees.  Cut the areas around the greens to fairway heights to bring back the "Ross".

Consider it declared.

[Steve Lapper]

Since I am the only one to stridently support Oak Hill this week, what exactly would help this golf course, in your eyes?

If you support taking it out of the rotation, say it.

If you believe in tree removal, declare it.

If you suggest different mowing heights, proclaim it.

have at it.

I'm a fan of Oak Hill. I don't give a damn what anyone here thinks. I don't think it's boring. I certainly don't think it's anywhere close to the worst course to host a major recently. I like it.

Okay, you are a fan. Now, why? Please tell us what architectural merit at Oak Hill East elevates it above Augusta National, Merion, or Muirfield?  Please tell us how enveloping trees and gnarly rough are critically superior to hard-running fairways, steep sloping greens, and a marvelous mix of vastly different holes. Just wondering??

[David_Tepper]

"That's why I hope he wins every major, just to spite you guys."

Brian -

If he doesn't, I hope another anchored putter does.

DT 

[jeffwarne]

Just to play Devil's advocate
I haven't played or seen Oak Hill other than some TV
it's wet from rain

I've played Augusta and spectated multiple times
I've played Merion since the Open and spectated during the Open
I've played Muirfield

I'm curious how 2 foot tall rough at Muirfield (less this year due to drought) or 8 inch rough at Merion, coupled with ribbonlike, contrived, and relocated fairways
is a more worthy test of driving,shotmaking, and recovery skills than carving a ball around trees and less dense rough at Oak Hill?
particularly when the players are navigating those courses(Muirfield and Merion) with 4 and 5 irons off the tee.

If the bunkers were where Ross originally had them would they even be relevant in this event?
(don't know the couse very well)

It just seems people want every course to be linkslike in its presentation despite a viciously humid, hot, and more recently wet summer.
That's great except Rochester is about 6 hours from any ocean.

and with those with the vitriol for the anchored putters, will the game be better in two years when they use long putters with 8 degrees of loft anchored against their forearms?
What's next a rule against ribbed grips?
installed on your perfectly legal driver that goes 400 yads

[BHoover]

Since I am the only one to stridently support Oak Hill this week, what exactly would help this golf course, in your eyes?

If you support taking it out of the rotation, say it.

If you believe in tree removal, declare it.

If you suggest different mowing heights, proclaim it.

have at it.

I'm a fan of Oak Hill. I don't give a damn what anyone here thinks. I don't think it's boring. I certainly don't think it's anywhere close to the worst course to host a major recently. I like it.

Okay, you are a fan. Now, why? Please tell us what architectural merit at Oak Hill East elevates it above Augusta National, Merion, or Muirfield?  Please tell us how enveloping trees and gnarly rough are critically superior to hard-running fairways, steep sloping greens, and a marvelous mix of vastly different holes. Just wondering??

I think there's room for a tree-lined, parkland course that requires accuracy and shotmaking from the tee. That's what I've seen thus far from watching Oak Hill. The course has had rain; that's not Oak Hill's fault. It and other courses in the Midwest and Northeast aren't going to play like Muirfield (then again, how many on here were bitching that Muirfield was playing too firm and fast??). This is a great tournament course. Don't believe me? Look at the leaderboard.

I've never played Oak Hill. But I certainly would jump at the chance. It may not be my favorite, maybe it would. But there's certainly room for this type of golf. Not every course has to be a Doak to be great (no offense, Tom). The sanctimonious attitudes that some folks on this site have is ridiculous.

Don't like it? Ignore the PGA and go read a book.

[Mike Schott]

Just to play Devil's advocate
I haven't played or seen Oak Hill other than some TV
it's wet from rain

I've played Augusta and spectated multiple times
I've played Merion and spectated
I've played Muirfield

I'm curious how 2 foot tall rough at Muirfield (less this year due to drought) or 8 inch rough at Merion, coupled with ribbonlike, contrived, and relocated fairways
is a more worthy test of driving and recovery skills than carving a ball around trees and less dense rough at Oak Hill?
particularly when the players are navigating those courses(Muirfield and Merion) with 4 irons off the tee.

If the bunkers were where Ross originally had them would they even be relevant in this event?
(don't know the couse very well)

It just seems people want every course to be linkslike in its presentation despite a viciously humid, hot, and more recently wet summer.
That's great except Rochester is about 6 hours from any ocean.

and with those with the vitriol for the anchored putters, will the game be better when they use long putters with 8 degrees of loft anchored against their forearms?
What's next a rule against ribbed grips?
installed on your perfectly legal driver that goes 400 yads

I'm sure I would be more than thrilled to play Oak Hill East but watching it on TV makes the course look like there's little strategy. There's no particular need to choose one side of the fairway except on the dogleg holes and there are no options on the approach shot. Miss the green and you are in deep rough or sand. It just seems dull to me. It's become the prototypical RTJ 1980's course. All I ask for are more strategy and options not a links course.

[Ronald Montesano]

What percentage of this board is good enough at golf to not just visualize strategy, but to effect it?

How many pro golfers actually adjust their games/strategy to a golf course?

People on the DB are making way too much of a deal over presence/absence of strategy.

Why does a course have to have "architectural merit" to host a great tournament?

[Matthew Rose]

In all seriousness, what would everyone do to Oak Hill? (Besides cut down trees)

Would you attempt to restore the Ross? Would you restore it to say, the 1968 US Open routing?

Would you restore the par-three between #4 and #5 and dump the current #6?

What would you do to #15?

Just curious.... a lot of people are quick to say "that hole sucks" but I'm curious to see what people would do, since there's been several variations and permutations of Oak Hill East over the years.

[Jud_T]

Do any early aerials of the course exist?

[Craig Sweet]

It ain't no Bethpage...

[Ronald Montesano]

Just curious.... a lot of people are quick to say "that hole sucks" but I'm curious to see what people would do, since there's been several variations and permutations of Oak Hill East over the years.

Mathew, it is apparent to me that some members of the discussion board don't know what to do with Oak Hill. It demands the types of shots that most tour players find comfortable, so the likelihood of identifying a high-ranking, well-known champion is excellent. If you contrast it with the 2003 results here (http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/2003/leaderboard/) where the majority of the top ten were shorter, straighter hitters (Els being the exception to the "shorter" adjective), the graduated rough has made a difference.

Would anyone have shot the scores that Thursday PM/Friday AM shot in 2003, given the rain that plagued them? I say "no," so something must have improved, to give golfers a fair run at a number, in spite of the rain.

So back to these uncertain DBoard members. Some would prefer that all courses have their proper appearance of fuzzy, brown hay in the primary rough and necklacing the bunkers. Others want to see totally open green fronts so that a ball can be run in (which would be humorous, given some of the elevation changes.) More would like to see less green all around (which would have been impossible, given the summer of rain that the USA has experienced.)

It's a PT Barnum situation and I suspect that history and this DB will recall the 2013 PGA in a better light. History is already quite fond of her, actually.

[Tom_Doak]

Oak Hill is a tree-lined course.  The idea that tree-lined courses should now become extinct is silly.  Oak Hill is narrow, but not impossibly narrow; they've set scoring records there in multiple championships, and just look at the scoring so far!

It's only 2/3 a Ross course at this point.  Some green sites were relocated and several greens rebuilt by Robert Trent Jones and then by Tom Fazio.

[Terry Lavin]

I'm sure the members love their golf course. And clearly RM is comfortable in his hometown booster role, but It is folly to preach for an Oakmont clearcut because the club doesn't want it.  And the PGA apparently doesn't have a complaint either.