Oak Hill and the PGA - Out of Date, or a Breath of Fresh Air?

[JNC Lyon]

I thought I would throw out a couple of questions to stir the pot leading up to the tournament.

First, regarding Oak Hill.  As you will see, either live or on television, Oak Hill has not elected to follow the trend of taking out trees, restoring its classic architecture, or pursuing width as a means of challenge.  I, for one, believe this is sad for the golfers who play the course 95% of the time.  However, for a tournament such as the PGA, Oak Hill presents a formidable test.  In a time where length dominates, Oak Hill forces shotmaking tee to green.  Moreover, Oak Hill has elected not to soften their greens, meaning golfers must use great care around the green to avoid any large numbers.  While this sort of test is out of date for me, is Oak Hill the type of course that the PGA Tour needs?  One where the bombers can't overpower?  Or does this sort of golf course lead to the fluke winner like we saw in 2003?

Second, regarding the PGA Championship in general.  This tournament is going to be a blast for me, as well as the friends I grew up playing golf with.  There is nothing like watching the best players in the world tackle a course you have played a thousand times.  But I am also nervous about how the course, and the tournament in general, will be perceived in comparison with the other majors this year.  I mean, we had three absolutely dynamite major championships at what are likely 3 of the top 10 to 15 courses in the world.  Can Oak Hill match up?  More profoundly, can the PGA match up, ever?  Or is the PGA Championship also going to be the downer major?  What can the PGA Championship do to bring itself into the limelight?  Because we all know that "Glory's Last Shot" thing isn't working...

[Mac Plumart]

John...

Having not played Oak Hill or studied it, I can't answer the bulk of your questions. However, I can say that I am very excited for the PGA.

Regarding your question about what can the PGA do to invigorate it...I'd be pumped to see it go back to match play.  That would add a new dimension to the majors and differentiate it among the majors.  If this would happen and someone pulled off the Grand Slam again, they would have passed a variety of golfing challenges to achieve this feat...the stern US Open test, the Links golf test of The Open, the unique test The Masters brings, and a match play Championship.  Now that proves a golfer is well rounded, and gives different types of golfers chances for majors.

[mike_beene]

The PGA is what it is but the reality is that to really represent the global nature of the game the fourth major would ideally be in Australia or in a Southern Hemisphere rotation.Tennis does this right. However, this is not the senior or LPGA and we can't just designate a major.The PGA status thing comes up frequently.From a positive, what is wrong with being the fourth most important  tournament in the world?

[JNC Lyon]

Mac,

I think my questions don't require playing Oak Hill.  My simple question was, "do narrow, tree-lined courses have a place in championship golf because of their requirement for shotmaking?"

Mike,

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with being the 4th best tournament.  But the other three majors are all pretty much even.  I would be hard-pressed to give a favorite major of the first three.  But the PGA doesn't have the distinguishing characteristics of the majors.  Shouldn't it have one to be considered a "Major."  At this point, the Players Championship is more unique than the PGA...

[Matthew Runde]

JNC,

I recently had questions similar to those you raised in your second topic.  I posted them, and there were some interesting replies.  The thread is here: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55593.msg1289676.html

[Ronald Montesano]

I'll let you know this week. I have no idea how thick the rough will be along the fairways and along the greens. I'm interested in seeing fairway width and tee placement, as well.

[BCrosby]

John -

How much of OH's resistance to tree removal do you attribute to the fact that in the 1930's OH was a leader in the golf course 'beautification' movement? (Read: plant more trees.) There was an OH member at the time (I forget his name) who wrote an influential pamphlet on the subject. Many courses followed the OH example after WWII. We are still recovering from the after-effects.

As I recall OH's archives include a detailed survey of the tree species planted. The club saw itself as serving as a kind of arboretum for local tree types.

(There are a couple of good essays to be written about OH's role in the treeing of American golf courses. Hint, hint.)

Given OH's history with the issue, I wonder if the club doesn't see its massive hardwoods as a mark of distinction.  

Bob  

  

[Ronald Montesano]

Bob, the club absolutely sees its abundance of trees as a mark of distinction. Wonder aimlessly no longer.

Addendum:  from the wikipedia entry on Oak Hill:

Local physician and civic personality John Ralston Williams cultivated oak trees and planted tens of thousands of them among the greens on what once was a farmed-out field.

[BCrosby]

John Ralston Williams is the single most under-appreciated figure in the history of golf architecture. Few people have had such a profound influence on how American golf courses look and play today.

The above could be the opening line for John Lyons' soon (I hope) to be written essay on Dr. Williams. I herewith waive all copyright claims. ... You're welcome and thanks in advance.

Bob  

[William_G]

out of date, historical, yet will be compelling for me to watch on TV

another golf tournament in the NE? thick rough, trees, and quick greens...been there done that

hope people watch it and have fun...

looking forward to Whistling Straits in the future

[Mac Plumart]

Mac,

I think my questions don't require playing Oak Hill.  My simple question was, "do narrow, tree-lined courses have a place in championship golf because of their requirement for shotmaking?"

Sure they do, John.  But it all comes down to where they are placed, fairway shapes, bunkering, green size and location, and the like.  Trees are just one part of the equation.  As I haven't played, or seen, Oak Hill, I can't offer any opinion regarding whether the entirety of Oak Hill comes together to pull it off or not.  But given the courses high ranking, I can offer a guess that the answer is "yes."  Hence my interest in seeing the PGA Championship.

However, I do think a return to the match play format would be really cool.

[Ronald Montesano]

Shouldn't it have one to be considered a "Major."  At this point, the Players Championship is more unique than the PGA...

What is unique about the Players? It is a hybrid of the other majors and a tour event. Convince me otherwise.

[mike_beene]

I agree that the PGA lacks uniqueness and would love to see a Southern Hemisphere major.However, the beauty of majors is you can't just create them.

[Terry Lavin]

With Tiger's recent win and Phil's Open triumph, the interest in the afterthought major will spike considerably. If both are in contention, the ratings will soar with the casual fans that are drawn almost exclusively by Tiger, the straw that stirs the PGA's drink.

[Ronald Montesano]

I just finished a walkabout of the back nine. I have respect for the width of the fairways...they are not tight, even on the short par four 14th. I suspect we will see a champion of great distinction come Sunday. No pics yet, as I am on the iPad.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

It is rather a sad reflection on where the game has gone, if we have to ask if driving accuracy and tree lined fairways have become out of date!
Of course it is not out of date for a MAJOR championship.
One of four events that are supposed to produce the best players at their best.
Oak Hill will NEVER be obsolete if the criteria for winning involves the ideal combination of length, precision and shot making.
It will provide us with the player who keeps the ball in play, has the ability to shapre his sjots and putt well, heaven forbid an all around game.

I love going there to play, it beats me up because I am not long enough off the tee, and the Williams Tournament loves to use ALL of the golf course, in fcat we play it longer than the guys in the PGA I think, but even tough it severly dents my ego, I know that is because I simply dont have enough game and it is not because of any gimmicks or an over indulgence of artificial hazards.

[Garland Bayley]

The PGA is certainly not out of date. Being the hardest test of the majors, it is the best and first major.

Besides, Oak Hill's greens eat Tigers alive.

[Ronald Montesano]

Front nine is as fair as the back. I am one who stands corrected. I have learned today that a tree-lined course CAN have ample width to move the ball both ways. Remember, too, that the.ground game in farmland can only happen when the ground is baked hard, with the grass near death.

[Ronald Montesano]

here is a shot of the 10th fairway this morning. You should see three arrows of different colors, indicating first cut, second cut and primary cut. A dotted line across the fairway indicates width. That width is common across the golf course, indicating a more manageable course than the one I recall in 2003.





WHOOPS....no dotted line. Something happened in SnagIt editor

[David Bartman]

look how much shade is on that 10th green !!!

[Ronald Montesano]

It was 6 am and that green is to the east...you want gefilte fish?

[Mark Woodger]

on the subject of the tournement itself i read (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/23575118) that Timmy Fincham convinced the PGA of America to stop calling it "Glory's last shot" because there is the FEDEX Cup stuff a few weeks afterwards. The payoff was an extra week between the end of the FEDEX cup and the Ryder Cup.

Not sure how long it had been marketed as "Glorys Last Shot" but this bothers me because they are trying so so hard to make the fedex cup relevant and are tampering with Majors to do so. The FedEx cup may one day be viewed as an important championship but i think that takes time not different marketing.

Anyway really looking forward to this week, don't know a huge amound about the course so I am looking forward to seeing it on TV.

[Josh Tarble]

This may be stretching it, but I think Oak Hill is a great juxtaposition of the 3 other majors this year.  Augusta has/had width, Merion has severe greens, deep rough and Muirfield of course had wind and firm and fast playing conditions.  It will be good to see how a true parkland with tree lined fairways does.

I also am of the opinion that trees are an excellent hazard.  As long as properly maintained, meaning the bases are clear and not too thick rough, trees provide so many options for recovery.  I would argue even more so than the unmaintained thick rough way off most fairways.

[PCCraig]

Personally, I can't remember another time I was less excited to watch a golf course on TV. Everything I've seen so far on the GC and ESPN looks like a pretty bland and boring parkland set up....typical of a normal tour event.

I actually don't mind the PGA and don't hate on it like many on here do. I grew up around a lot of club pros and to them it was a really big deal. I remember when guys I grew up playing with qualified for the last PGA at Oak Hill and all the guys where glued to the screen hoping to catch their buddy on TV. I always thought that was pretty neat and a very underrated aspect of the event. I would suggest those that say the PGA lacks an identity like the US Open, Masters, and British Open to go ask a PGA Professional what the PGA means to them.

[Ronald Montesano]

Proclamation: The more distant I was from a course, the more I yammered on about its flaws. NO LONGER. I resolve (during August Resolution period) to speak only when I deeply know what the hell I'm discussing (most people learn this earlier in life, but slow gotta slow.)

Rationale: Walking with Juan Leon of GCA yesterday during the gloaming at Oak Hill, we crossed the 12th fairway, one of two great, short, uphill par fours in a three-hole stretch, and the ground crunched beneath my feet. I laughed and said to Juan, "and the people watching on tv don't think this is fast and firm." Just 'cause them fairways is green, don't mean they haint F 'n F.

The Oak Hill crew has been masterful during this year of mucha lluvia (much rain) in keeping the primary rough less than primeval. It is manageable with more than a wedge, quite different from 2003 PGA. The first cut of rough is still spinnable and the second cut of rough will allow a normal (albeit spinless) recovery shot.

I'm hoping that by Friday, PCraig (whose parents would ever name a kid "P," for real!?!?) will be enchanted by the event and the course.