What is the Future of American Private Club Golf?

[Steve Lang]

   Couldn't resist to take a look at the Unemployment chart in Reply #16...

http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp

[Lou_Duran]

  Couldn't resist to take a look at the Unemployment chart in Reply #16...

http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp

What are you implying?  That the future of golf is somehow tied to folks having some folding money in their pockets?  No need for all these esoteric statistics.  Just get the Fed to print some extra cash for golf while building a $100+ Trillion stash for all the free stuff coming after 2020.  Remember what Napoleon Hill said "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve.".

[Steve_ Shaffer]

!. Elite Clubs :  Since golf is an aspirational  game according to our President, the elite clubs will continue to be elite. If you have it, flaunt it.


2. Second Tier Clubs:  Some will continue to be successful. Some will do so with the help of an influx of capital from investors like Concert Golf. Others will drop down to the Third Tier.


3. Third Tier Clubs: Many will become semi-private. Some will close because the land is more valuable for development. Some will continue to struggle.


I could name names but I won't. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Please name one second tier club that isn't already semi-private.

[Mike Bodo]

Please name one second tier club that isn't already semi-private.

I can think of several in SE Michigan: Plum Hollow, Red Run, Lake Forest, Dearborn and my former club, Western. They aren't exactly elites like Oakland Hills, Orchard Lake, Franklin Hills, Birmingham, Detroit CC, Barton Hills or Meadowbrook, but they're solid second tier clubs that weathered the financial meltdown in the late 2000's and have seemingly come out the other end okay. Plum Hollow is struggling right now, from what I hear and could go the semi-private route in the near future, but the others are doing okay.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,


Any club that I can play unaccompanied as a non member or as member of a no-club-club is semi-private. No big deal. I can probably get on the elites you mention.

[Mike Bodo]

Mike,


Any club that I can play unaccompanied as a non member or as member of a no-club-club is semi-private. No big deal. I can probably get on the elites you mention.

You have more street cred than me or are working the right angles to get on said courses, but good for you!  [size=78%] I don't go out of my way to play private courses I don't belong to or am not an invited guest. I suppose if I was really Jonesing to play a private I wasn't a member at and didn't know a member that could get me on I'd pay the starter or club pro something extra for the accommodation, but I don't work that way. It's just not that important to me. Fortunately, for us public course players in Michigan we have the Golf Association of Michigan that has its annual GAM Days where non-private club members can get on a few of the elite privates each year without paying through the nose to do so.[/size]

[John Kavanaugh]

You don't pay anyone under the table. You just ask nice.

[Mike Bodo]

You don't pay anyone under the table. You just ask nice.

Kudos to you, if that's the case. Again, it's not that important to me to go out of my way to play a private without being invited as a guest. I guess having cadied at privates throughout my life has taught me to respect that clubs are private for a reason even if I can finagle my way on to them. To each their own.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,


A foursome that plays unaccompanied will spend more in one day than my dues for a month. The are not finagling, they are subsidizing. You get used to it.


I don't think there are a dozen truly private courses left in the country.

[Matt MacIver]

Maybe there needs to be a fourth tier, Uber-Elite.  Augusta, Cypress - etc. - no matter how much money you have you have to be asked to join, and getting a guest invite to play is worth dropping everything to play. 


Then there would be Elites in every major city, ones you probably still have to know someone and be invited.  The next tier are great clubs, either family or golf oriented, the upfront might be substantial but writing a check and perhaps waiting on a list gets you in. 


Next would be privates that allow unaccompanied play (non- weekend) and the upfront is gentle enough to not be a barrier to entry. 


On another note, all the neighborhood / real estate courses / clubs built in the last three decades will be the ones that have no land option aside from going semi- . 

[Mike Bodo]

Mike,


A foursome that plays unaccompanied will spend more in one day than my dues for a month. The are not finagling, they are subsidizing. You get used to it.


I don't think there are a dozen truly private courses left in the country.

If that's the case then why put on the facade that you're a member only institution, when in fact you're not? If I had heard during my time at Western that our staff were letting non-members on the course with no member accompanying them on non-outing days I'd be pissed. However, were this widely acknowledged secretly amongst the membership as a practice done for financial reasons I'd be more accepting, but still rubbed nevertheless.


If a club is that hard-up for cash to have to go this route, then publicly advertise yourself as a semi-private operation, is my feeling and don't sell yourself to prospective members as this exclusive private club when you're not.

[John Kavanaugh]

I thought we were supposed to enjoy sharing our private clubs with people who can't afford or may not want a full time membership. I personally look forward to the golf play-share app Guber where I can profit off my memberships. I might even drive them through the gates and let them stay at my house. Sharing is the new owning.

[Mike Bodo]

I thought we were supposed to enjoy sharing our private clubs with people who can't afford or may not want a full time membership. I personally look forward to the golf play-share app Guber where I can profit off my memberships. I might even drive them through the gates and let them stay at my house. Sharing is the new owning.

I'm down for sharing my membership with people that can't afford it and have treated a number of friends to rounds at my club in the few years I've been there that wouldn't otherwise think of playing/joining or could afford to play. My beef is with clubs that promote and use exclusivity as a selling point, that at the end of the day really aren't. It's called false advertising. Be up front and acknowledge who and what you are and don't mislead people, is my general rule of thumb.

[archie_struthers]

 


The idea that no one should ever be allowed to play a private club is silly and probably archaic. As John just said its a small tool in keeping the price of memberships down as unaccompanied guests typically pay a higher fee. It's probably a great idea to let accompanied guests play for a really nominal fee, promoting both guest play and giving your members some added value.


Often you want to allow a group of potential new members experience your club in the hopes of recruiting them to the fold.


But there is a cardinal rule to this ! You must insist and enforce that any such "guests" play fast and adhere to whatever rules you have vis a vis raking bunkers , cart access etc etc . If not you might be in for a bad day as nothing worse than holding up your regulars for some outsiders. On the other hand you must communicate to your players the need to do some things that might not have been accepted in the past for instance allowing fivesomes etc etc. Its all reaction and planning and having the quality staff to allow you to see any potential problems before they become real issues.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,


Don't take a seat at the old man table and bitch about everything that is wrong with your club until it is absolutely necessary. And stay off social media. I didn't know I was subsidizing the Burnt Toast Club until I saw pictures of my club on their website. It's done, privacy is gone.


Wake up and read the threads where people tell about all the courses that they have played. Do you honestly think some of these guys have that many friends?


You can not enjoy a membership if you try to be a gatekeeper. Don't look too hard inside the gates either if you want to stay happy. You have a national membership and you live where? Memberships at private clubs are like any other long term relationship. Embrace the passion of both the good times and bad because you don't want to end up stuck home alone. Or worse, playing with the quitters at the local muni.

[Mike Sweeney]

It's called false advertising. Be up front and acknowledge who and what you are and don't mislead people, is my general rule of thumb.

Just booking my Father & Son trip to Ireland where I am a Lifetime Member at Enniscrone, and the models of Ireland and USA are getting closer. I have not been over in probably 10 years. I joined Enniscrone during my deep insanity days of GCA after a trip to Sand Hills.  Now that insanity is working out nicely as my rounds at Enniscrone are paid for, and my son plays with me for a very reasonable member guest fee.


We are also playing three of the Irish Giants, as we are approaching the trip like a last chance trip with his pending Military duties. Wow the days of cheap Ireland golf (vs Scotland rota courses) are gone. I used to get a discount as an Irish Club member, but now with the convenience of online booking, they threw me right into the "American Pool". 


Alas, the people of Enniscrone GC were super warm and accommodating as I did not even have an updated Member login, and they set me right up. The only place I have seen Euro style membership work in the States is in Maine and some of Vermont. Lobsterman and Presidents work just fine at Cape A, so why not adopt it more in the second tier of USA?


Sláinte

[JC Jones]

The only place I have seen Euro style membership work in the States is in Maine and some of Vermont. Lobsterman and Presidents work just fine at Cape A, so why not adopt it more in the second tier of USA?


Sláinte

That's due almost entirely to the fact that other than Disneyworld and surfing trips you havent been on vacation to anywhere other than Maine or Vermont in the last 10 years.

[Mike Bodo]

You can not enjoy a membership if you try to be a gatekeeper. Don't look too hard inside the gates either if you want to stay happy. You have a national membership and you live where? Memberships at private clubs are like any other long term relationship. Embrace the passion of both the good times and bad because you don't want to end up stuck home alone. Or worse, playing with the quitters at the local muni.

I don't care or wish to be a gatekeeper, but where's the incentive anymore to become a member at a private club if anyone off the street can simply show up and play? While I welcome and support the reciprocity system private golf clubs share, from what I'm hearing there's no need for it if one can simply show up during off peak hours and get on a private course they have always wanted to play. As much as I would love to knock the ball around Barton Hills by me, I don't see myself just showing up on a random Saturday or Sunday afternoon after all the members have finished their rounds and being allowed to walk on. I dunno. Perhaps I'm wrong for that way of thinking, but knowing my luck the club pro and or starter would tell me no can do.

[Kalen Braley]

MIke,

I wouldn't fall for the JK trap.  He is typically on the front lines of pining for the good old days of private clubs and people staying in their relative golf lane.  And he also came up with this beauty many moons ago that went something like this..

"Private clubs are not about who you let in, but who you can keep out"

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,


Why be a member at any of the greats in the UK? Muirfield for instance.


As far as Western goes. Would you have a problem with a member of the Donald Ross society calling and gaining permission to play your course?

[John Kavanaugh]

MIke,

I wouldn't fall for the JK trap.  He is typically on the front lines of pining for the good old days of private clubs and people staying in their relative golf lane.  And he also came up with this beauty many moons ago that went something like this..

"Private clubs are not about who you let in, but who you can keep out"

Kalen,


Please don't misquote me.

[Mike Bodo]

Mike,
Why be a member at any of the greats in the UK? Muirfield for instance.


As far as Western goes. Would you have a problem with a member of the Donald Ross society calling and gaining permission to play your course?

John, know that I'm not arguing with you, but am playing devil's advocate here. To answer your question; I wouldn't have a problem at all with anyone from the DRS playing Western. In fact, I would welcome it. But those are exceptions and for all I know the DRS may have agreements in place with member clubs that give DRS members access to most Ross privates.


Prior to going to Sarasota, FL this time last year I called and spoke to the club pro at Sara Bay CC (another Ross private) and asked him as an affiliate private club member if me and a guest could get on their course one weekday afternoon during my stay and pay the going guest fee? I was promptly told "no", which caught me by surprise. When asked about reciprocity this gentlemen said they don't grant it in all circumstances. So, my experience trying to get on a private course I'm not a member at wasn't a pleasant one, which has made me gun-shy to try again in the future. Yet you, and I assume others here, have no problem getting on private courses you don't belong to. Perhaps I picked the wrong club or would have had better odds of getting on had I just showed up and asked, but I wouldn't think it would be that difficult a task if this is being routinely done by the vast majority of private clubs.

[Kalen Braley]

MIke,

I wouldn't fall for the JK trap.  He is typically on the front lines of pining for the good old days of private clubs and people staying in their relative golf lane.  And he also came up with this beauty many moons ago that went something like this..

"Private clubs are not about who you let in, but who you can keep out"

Kalen,


Please don't misquote me.

John,


I thought I did well to clarify it wasn't the exact quote.  But given you said it so long ago, have had 4-5 different account names, and the site has been purged at least once, I'm unable to find it. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,


I believe it is proper protocol to have your pro call and ask. I'm not a fan of that method but understand the necessity. Just to say, I can not recall once in my life ever accessing and playing a private club alone. People love me, I get a ton of invites.