What is the Future of American Private Club Golf?

[Ben Sims]

I followed my friend John in dominating the pole position!  John's spot on macro view aside, I think the story below has some validity.

I recently did an orientation with a private club.  They're doing just fine financially, and the health of the club seems good.  I was one of the youngest guys around all day.  It was a stark contrast.  They have been very aggressive with differentiating membership categories, going so far as to offer 7(!) membership options with age stratifications in each.  They compete favorably with every public course in the area when it comes to architecture and conditions.  

So why the aging membership?

There's nobody my age that understands private clubs.  They just assume they're not a doctor or lawyer and don't have the money to join.  They're intimidated.  They can't get info off the website.  None of their friends are members.  They don't have a handicap.  They only play 2-4 times a month.  They go to baseball games, out to eat, skiing, hiking, work 50-60 hours a week and have a family that is engaging enough to require more time than the family of yesteryear.  

There's a hundred reasons why private clubs aren't as attractive as they once were.  But bundling it all into one; clubs must become adept at attracting 30-somethings into the doors of their club.  They must evolve as the pace that society has evolved.  

[Jud_T]

Get the wives and kids to play and it becomes a net gain and much better value.  Of course those folks don't want or need a 7000 yard championship layout with restictions on times and attitude...

[Steve Kline]

From a GCA perspective, I'm not sure all of this is bad news.  Aside from the toniest zip codes, the focus will be more on value for money and putting the $$'s into the most important asset, i.e. the golf and doing away with all the other extraneous nonsense, including excessive amounts of water!

That sounds great. The problem I'm finding, though, is that value for money may not actually exist in the private club sphere. There are affordable private clubs in my area that have an ideal maintenance meld, nice but modest facilities, an attractive golf course, low-budget amenities for families, quality and reasonably priced food, and a good, casual membership. These clubs that control expenditures and keep dues affordable SHOULD be the ideal. I'm finding, though, that they really struggle to break even. The economics make it a real struggle to attract members at a price point that keeps the club in the black. I'm sure some will survive the next ten years. But it's a really difficult business, and I worry that over time that segment of the market will disappear and courses will turn public or close altogether.

It's not a bad thing if golf in this country becomes more accessible. But it's unfortunate if that shift happens at the expense of the affordable, responsible clubs that are doing everything the way that seems most right. It's unfortunate if the only private market that can sustain itself is the ultra-elite and exclusive model. But I'm afraid that might be where we're headed.

I'm see to recall you live in Cincinnati. If so, which clubs do you think  have an attractive course with an ideal maintenance meld, etc. that are affordable. I haven't found one yet.

[Steve Strasheim]

Interesting discussion.

I see two main threats to the private club model.

1. Inflation
2. Golf is not attractive to children.

Inflation is important both as an opportunity cost to the family - as their prices go up on other things, the golf club becomes less viable - and to the club itself - as the cost of inputs to produce the golf goes up.

Without a child who is very interested in golf, it ain't gonna happen in most families. Wrong as it may be, today most families time are centered around the children's activities.

[Jud_T]

Inflation?  I think Bernanke would be able to scrap the Cialis scrip if he ever saw any of that...

[Andrew Buck]

2. Golf is not attractive to children.

I find golf is hugely attractive to children, if they can do it with their parents at an early age.

However, if the kid sees dad leave for 7 hours to play golf, but then he comes home and plays catch (or video games) for 30 minutes with the kid, which will he like more?

[Richard Choi]

I pay a very reasonable monthly payments to play one of the top public courses in the nation. That works fine for me.

However, if there was a club where I can have my 11 year old daughter spend all day during summer vacation while my wife and I are at work, we would join in a heartbeat and pay twice as much and more. But nothing like that exists as far as I know.

[JMEvensky]

Without a child who is very interested in golf, it ain't gonna happen in most families. Wrong as it may be, today most families time are centered around the children's activities.

There's a lot of truth in this.

[John Kavanaugh]

The rules of golf are far to complicated for a child who loves to compete to learn. I have never seen a sport so full of innocent and intentional cheats. The parents who follow along are ignorant and insane. It is the worst of all sports to push a child to play.

[John Kavanaugh]

If any of you are familiar with women players you may notice that they attempt to strictly adhere to the rules. Far more than men. It is an impossible unfun task. The rules are killing the game for the sake of the rule makers.

[JMEvensky]

If any of you are familiar with women players you may notice that they attempt to strictly adhere to the rules. Far more than men. It is an impossible unfun task. The rules are killing the game for the sake of the rule makers.

I disagree with your conclusion.

I,too,have seen 24 handicap women hole out 3 inch putts for triple and use 10 tees to triangulate nearest point of relief/where to drop a ball while holding a copy of the Decisions.

But I don't think the rulesmakers have as much to do with it as their husbands who tell them that this is the only way golf should be played.The husbands,of course,don't actually play by the rules themselves,but making the game harder for the wives must provide some perverse kind of enjoyment.

[Steve Strasheim]

The rules of golf are far to complicated for a child who loves to compete to learn. I have never seen a sport so full of innocent and intentional cheats. The parents who follow along are ignorant and insane. It is the worst of all sports to push a child to play.

Agree with the rules part, but not the ignorant/insane part.

Golf has lots of rules.
Golf is hard.
Golf requires patience.
Golf needs a dress code.
Golf is a parents game.

etc, etc.

Bottom line is that golf is not exciting to the vast majority of kids. I'd say maybe 98%. Even if a youngster has remarkable talent, they may not pursue the game.

[John Kavanaugh]

It is fun to hit the ball hard just as it is fun to hit the ball in the hole. It is the thousands of rules in between that suck out the fun.

[Dave Doxey]

This is a timely topic for me, as an old guy who is currently considering whether to join a private club.

My golf history is 15 years of public golf, 25 years of private club golf, and then 5 years of public golf (‘temporary’ relocation for a job).  I’m now planning to move for retirement and golf will be a big part of that..

Thinking back on my experiences, here is a ranked list of what I valued in a private club:

#1 -  Golfing and associating with people that I enjoy
#2 – A well-conditioned golf course and practice facility
#3 – Friendly and professional treatment by the staff
#4 – A good pace of play (under 4 hrs)
#5 – A good golf lounge for a drink and a meal after golf

What I don’t need or want to pay for (that others might…)

-   Fancy restaurant (Just focus on golf, thanks.  I’ll find somewhere else to dine)
-   Pool (got one already)
-   Tennis (don’t play)
-   Health club (not my thing)
-   Snob/exclusive atmosphere (I’ve nothing to prove to anyone)
-   Parties, functions, etc. (I don’t dance)

I can afford to join just about any club, but I don’t like wasting money or overpaying.  While not a primary driver, “Cost per round’ is still there somewhere in the back of my mind. It is certainly something that can be easily used for comparison by anyone who values a dollar.  Weighing that against the list is the task.

Public options clearly provide the lowest cost per round.  Obtaining the items on the list above is the question.  Discovering a public course that provides them is the challenge.  As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, cost has been going down and quality up. Still, many public golf experiences fall well short of ideal!

On the flip side, a private club is far more likely to fulfill the list, based upon my past experiences. However, there’s no guarantee, and no way to know upon relocating to an area. One must join and hope.  That means laying down a stiff joining fee, which I see as lost money.  Add to that the uncertainty of the club going under, going public, raising fees, or hitting me with assessments, and the scale swings back toward public golf.

I’m leaning toward trying the public options first. I’ll stick with a single course that best provides numbers 2-5, and try to establish a good group of golfing friends.

There is always the private option should I end up needing it.  In a new area, I’ll watch for that special club deal. Fees can only get lower and joining/initiation fees are likely to decline or go away over time. A trial membership, where I could try before I buy would be ideal.

[Jason Thurman]

I'm see to recall you live in Cincinnati. If so, which clubs do you think  have an attractive course with an ideal maintenance meld, etc. that are affordable. I haven't found one yet.

Steve, the obvious choice is my club - Clovernook. It's a charming, intact Langford and Moreau kept in excellent shape and an amazing bargain. It's a, under-the-radar club with a membership that walks and plays fast. I really love the place.

But I also like Maketewah. Losantiville and Wyoming are a bit quirkier, but still very affordable and interesting courses. I also like what I've seen of O'Bannon. It probably wouldn't be a GCA favorite, but it's a nice course that's not too expensive from what I've heard. I haven't played it, but I've been to the facility and walked a bit of the course and the members I know are happy.

Now, my perspective may be skewed a bit because I was offered junior rates at all these courses when I was shopping. But they were all much less expensive than what some other posts in this thread have defined as affordable.

[Carl Johnson]

The rules of golf are far to complicated for a child who loves to compete to learn. I have never seen a sport so full of innocent and intentional cheats. The parents who follow along are ignorant and insane. It is the worst of all sports to push a child to play.

Agree with the rules part, but not the ignorant/insane part.

Golf has lots of rules.
Golf is hard.
Golf requires patience.
Golf needs a dress code.
Golf is a parents game.

etc, etc.

Bottom line is that golf is not exciting to the vast majority of kids. I'd say maybe 98%. Even if a youngster has remarkable talent, they may not pursue the game.

But, it is golf.  And now I ramble a bit.  Golf is not "professional" wrestling.  Is the problem golf as it is, or golf in relation to other sports and activities?  And, if the latter, then is there any place left for golf at all, anywhere?  Golf is not computer games shoot 'em ups, NFL bash 'em in the head, or even "you da man" or "in the hole."  It's just a game for average folks to go out and play.  Some average people like to bowl - same deal.  Sure, golf has lots of rules, but that's golf.  It's challenging physically, skillwise, and mentally, both in the physical component and in the "rules" component.

You mention "remarkable talent."  That, in my view, has nothing to do with golf and private golf clubs.  A few guys or gals with remarkable talent may be able to make a living playing entertainment (tour) golf.  But that's only because, I would suggest, that there is a large audience of recreational golfers who enjoy the game for what it is.  "Remarkable talent" is only worth what the rest of us will pay to see it as entertainment.

Golf itself may die off except for the weird few, but that's a different question from the private club question, as I see it.  Assume there is room for golf as a pastime for the average person.  What role will the private club play?

For me, a private club member for 18 years, the club is a place where you can go and "get a game" with friends.  Where I live, the public courses don't offer that sort of option.  On the other hand, a cousin of mine is an avid golfer and lives in an area (o.k., it's the Pinehurst, NC, area) where there are lots of great daily fee options.  He belongs to a well organized group of golfers named the "Whatevers" who are members of no private club but organize frequent games, weekly at worst, at very nice daily fee courses.  In effect, they have a club - a private club, if you will - but do not have to worry about supporting a club with a course and other amenities.  In the right place, with the right people, this is a "private club" option that could be the future.

What I am suggesting is that the future of the private club will depend on the private golf clubs' abilities to give folks an easy, enjoyable social exprience, primarily or exclusively for golf, as compared with other golf options.

[Dan Herrmann]

Carl,
Every team sport has a different set of rules for kids, at least in the USA and Canada.

Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Football - they all have rules just for kids.  Why not golf?

As others have said, the club value equation becomes a lot easier to sell if the wife and kids play.  In fact, it's the only reason we're at a club - playing publics 2 green fees twice per weekend and losing after work golf was killing us.

[Carl Johnson]

Carl,
Every team sport has a different set of rules for kids, at least in the USA and Canada.

Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Football - they all have rules just for kids.  Why not golf?

As others have said, the club value equation becomes a lot easier to sell if the wife and kids play.  In fact, it's the only reason we're at a club - playing publics 2 green fees twice per weekend and losing after work golf was killing us.

100% agreed.  You've got to make it a family affair.  The privates that buy into this have the best chance.

[Philip Caccamise]

I'm see to recall you live in Cincinnati. If so, which clubs do you think  have an attractive course with an ideal maintenance meld, etc. that are affordable. I haven't found one yet.

Steve, the obvious choice is my club - Clovernook. It's a charming, intact Langford and Moreau kept in excellent shape and an amazing bargain. It's a, under-the-radar club with a membership that walks and plays fast. I really love the place.

But I also like Maketewah. Losantiville and Wyoming are a bit quirkier, but still very affordable and interesting courses. I also like what I've seen of O'Bannon. It probably wouldn't be a GCA favorite, but it's a nice course that's not too expensive from what I've heard. I haven't played it, but I've been to the facility and walked a bit of the course and the members I know are happy.

Now, my perspective may be skewed a bit because I was offered junior rates at all these courses when I was shopping. But they were all much less expensive than what some other posts in this thread have defined as affordable.

What kind of number did they give you at Maketewah?

O'Bannon is just OK IMO.

I agree on Clovernook, and Browns Run is another decent option as well in that range.

[Steve Kline]

I would think Maketewah is not that cheap. The course is okay, but I'm not sure I would want to play it every day.

I'll be interested to play Clovernook in 10 days or so. I haven't played it in years.

O'Bannon is marginal.

I just joined Terrace Park CC. It's five minutes from my house and five minutes from my office. So, that's hard to pass up. The course is okay but could be much better. Way too many trees. I find this to be a probelm on almost every course in Cincinnati.

Miami View has the atmosphere I want - golf club only - but not the course I want.

An important, perhaps the most important, reason for me to pick a club is proximity to home/work. Others are no tee times and a regular game to play in. A good practice facility. A walking culture. I've settled on getting my architectural kicks through travel because the only two courses that really get me going in Cincinnati are Camargo and Hyde Park (although not a huge fan of the zoysia there). And, I likely won't ever be able to afford or justify joining either one.

[John Kavanaugh]

Shawnee Lookout is one of my favorite courses in the world. Don't recall the exact number but the short severely uphill par three is one of a kind. If I lived in Cincinatti that's where I would play.

[Lou_Duran]

I can afford to join just about any club, but I don’t like wasting money or overpaying.  While not a primary driver, “Cost per round’ is still there somewhere in the back of my mind. It is certainly something that can be easily used for comparison by anyone who values a dollar.  Weighing that against the list is the task.

Public options clearly provide the lowest cost per round.  Obtaining the items on the list above is the question.  Discovering a public course that provides them is the challenge.  As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, cost has been going down and quality up. Still, many public golf experiences fall well short of ideal!

On the flip side, a private club is far more likely to fulfill the list, based upon my past experiences. However, there’s no guarantee, and no way to know upon relocating to an area. One must join and hope.  That means laying down a stiff joining fee, which I see as lost money.  Add to that the uncertainty of the club going under, going public, raising fees, or hitting me with assessments, and the scale swings back toward public golf.

I’m leaning toward trying the public options first. I’ll stick with a single course that best provides numbers 2-5, and try to establish a good group of golfing friends.

There is always the private option should I end up needing it.  In a new area, I’ll watch for that special club deal. Fees can only get lower and joining/initiation fees are likely to decline or go away over time. A trial membership, where I could try before I buy would be ideal.

You have much company in your situation.  Quite a few years back, I posted something similar, but also asking for guidance on the best retirement communities.  Sad to say, I am no further along in identifying where "I belong" (to borrow from the wise Chris Johnston).

One thing for sure, and perhaps the hardest, is overcoming the "cost per round" mentality.  As a good friend once counseled me, "when you're gone, it won't do you any good, and your family will do just fine".  Of course, another friend asked me when I was going to join an overseas club that with as many acquaintances we have all over, how often would I be visiting the prospective club, and wouldn't it be cheaper just to pay guest fees (a derivative of the cost per round mindset).

For all the romanticizing about public golf we get from the USGA elites (e.g. Sandy Tatum who is a member at CPC, SFGC, and other such places), blessed are those who enjoy golf in this segment.  I am not among them, particularly if that was going to be where I got my golf fix.  And unless you are in one of those little populated, non-resort areas (e.g. Hutchinson, KS), over the long run, you get what you pay for with the low-cost options .

The bottom line, it is extremely difficult to overcome your upbringing (as Seve's former father-in-law once commented "you can take the boy out of the caddie shack, but you can't take the caddie shack out of the boy), but if you have it, enjoy it.

I know that there is a day of reckoning for the several decades that a large segment of the population has lived beyond its means.  Those who have squirreled for retirement and the rainy day have to come to terms with a second part, use it or lose it.  I wonder how much of the golf industry's doldrums has that at its roots- we know that the stuff is going to hit the fan eventually, and the propensity to live within our means with a margin for safety for the down cycles precludes us from enjoying our stores.  As another friend mentioned recently regarding golf travels, there is only so much time left.  Go for it.


 

[John Kavanaugh]

You can't buy friends but it is difficult to keep ones who are cheap. Joining a club will always open yourself up to new and long lasting friendships. Put a price on that.

[Lou_Duran]

You can't buy friends but it is difficult to keep ones who are cheap. Joining a club will always open yourself up to new and long lasting friendships. Put a price on that.

John, John, any one who goes to Dismal River can't be cheap.  Actually, I have known a few guys who do indeed buy their friends (doesn't Clapton have a song about that-  .... "when you're down and out"?).  But you are absolutely right about friendships, particularly those who you only see occasionally at destination clubs.  At my old club of over 20 years where, during the stable years, everyone knew everyone else, group dynamics were very interesting.  As a sometime aide to our group's headmaster- talk about a difficult position- I learned that his pre-round routine was as much matching the teams based on who wasn't getting along as it was on making them competitive.  With all our ups and downs, we all looked forward to our noon tee times on the weekends, and, as you note, there is no "price on that".

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm just saying that I have made most all my friends in the world by first joining a course where I knew no one.   For a guy like me that is priceless.