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Matthew Mollica

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Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« on: July 23, 2013, 09:35:47 AM »
The Sunday just gone wasn't just the final round of The Open. It was the first of what will hopefully be an annual event here in Australia. Many members of a largely domestic Australian golf forum (we have a few international visitors including Sirs Becker and Arble) organised a tribute to Seve Ballesteros. But with a difference.

We chose the anniversary of his first Open triumph to stage a day in his honour. It was neat that this day also coincided with the final round of this year's Open. 18 of us played with clubs and balls Seve and his generation of pro players would have used. Wound balls, persimmon drivers and fairway woods with steel shafts. Forged irons. No titanium, graphite, or anything with more than 56 degrees of loft.  We staged the day at St. Andrews Beach, Tom Doak and Mike Clayton's course on the Mornington Peninsula. We dressed like Seve too! These were the recommended styles.





I think we did quite well!



Play with balata and persimmon is better than I remember, and just so much fun. It gives a real feel for how far the game has gone off-course, and just how good the players of the 80s, 70s and prior decades really were. The course was great fun with the old equipment too. Loads of width was appreciated by some using the old clubs for the first time. The abundance of short grass afforded lots of bump and run shots, putts from well short of the green, and creative approaches. The course allows everyone to find a fairway almost all the time, but presents it's primary scoring challenge inside the last 80 yards of many holes, particularly when approaching from a less desirable portion of fairway. With less carry and a bit more roll from tee shots, especially with dormant bermuda fairways, thought was required when negotiating fairway hazards.

From a GCA perspective, it was pretty clear that many recently designed courses would be much poorer venues for an event such as this, with clubs and balls of decades past. Too narrow, too long, too many forced carries. I don't think it was a coincidence that the short list of potential venues for this event comprised older, and/or higher quality courses. Layouts with considered drive hazard placement and lots of short grass around greens. Generous fairways too.

Wielding the persimmons and forged irons on a windy, wide, fun and quality course on a cold clear day was a tremendous way to renew passion for the game, discuss course design with like-minded golfers (on the final day of an Open Championship) and also honour Seve.

One of our foursome had the chance to say "I miss, I miss, I miss, I make". There were some brilliant drives considering the old Titleist 90 compression Professional balls in play. And the wind of the day. Brett Morrissey took 3 iron from a bunker. There were chip in's and some pitches which were pure Ballesteros. A good size birdie putt on 18 also led to the trademark celebration Seve made famous on the 18th green at TOC. The driving of Shane Gurnett, Mike Clayton, and several others known here at GCA was a joy to watch. The sound of those old balls well struck with persimmon heads was wonderful.

We'll hopefully stage this event on an annual basis, and stage more games with bags from 1970s and 1980s in he next few months.

Here's some images from the day.
  


Acushnet heel-shafted and beached blade putter with an old Tour Model 1wood and Professional 90 balls


Old school, leather soled White wing-tip brogue FootJoy Classics


A few bags from yesteryear






Talk about getting into costume ( it's a wig... )


Brett M in action, with native onlookers


The Spanish post-meal feast!


Matthew
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 09:40:36 AM by Matthew Mollica »
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

JMEvensky

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 09:41:07 AM »
Where'd you find the golf balls?

Please report any/all Seve stories from Clayton--he's got a million of them.

Patrice Boissonnas

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2013, 09:49:06 AM »
Same question for me : where did you find the balls?
I think it's a great project and I should think about organizing something similar here in France.
Did you play from the forward tees?

Tom_Doak

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2013, 09:51:16 AM »
I got to walk with Seve and Ben Crenshaw in a practice round at the Western Open many years ago ... a career highlight.

Sadly, it was at Butler National, about the worst course you could imagine for providing opportunities for Seve's magic.  But, I also got to watch him hitting 2-irons out of a practice bunker at the TPC at Sawgrass one year, that was awesome.

Perhaps one of these years I might attend the festivities, if I can tie it to a business trip down under.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2013, 09:55:38 AM »
Fantastic idea. Sounds like a great event. Very envious indeed. Would have really loved to be involved, the feel in the fingers from a forged blade, that special noise from a persimmon head, wrong hemisphere, unfortunately. Great photos - the Seve wig, superior to the Rory wigs from Celtic Manor 2010.

One question, where did you acquire the balata balls from?

How about a UK version - on a links, all brown and beige and burnt-up?

All the best

Andrew Buck

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2013, 10:01:56 AM »
Sounds like a great time.

Also curious on how you acquired the balls.  Also, were the first professionals still balata?  My memory was they came out in 91 or 92 and were much more durable. 

Mike Hendren

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2013, 10:02:29 AM »
It never gets old seeing "Fluid Feel" on the bottom of Wilson Staff irons.  I have two full sets, maybe 1956 and 1958 that I can't stand to part with as well as a set of the short-lived Goosenecks from the late 80's.  Nice to see a 2-iron in the bag.

Well done, Gents.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Will Lozier

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2013, 10:12:26 AM »
Looks like loads of fun!  I don't however think those Wilson 1200's are forged! ;)

Cheers

David_Tepper

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2013, 10:16:53 AM »
Muy bueno!!! ;)

Jim Sherma

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2013, 10:18:11 AM »
My recollection was that the Professional was essentially the Tour Balata with a urethane cover. They were much more durable but still got out of round over a few rounds and lumpy given a thin shot.

Will - I thought the 1200's were out of place as well. They were of that era though. Playing the 1200's with either a truncated dimple Wilson Pro-Staff surlyn or the old octahedral small dimpled Top-Flites would have been more appropriate.

Nigel Islam

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2013, 10:27:37 AM »
The Professional came out in 1996/1997 I believe.

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2013, 10:32:00 AM »
Wow!
What a wig and paella!
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2013, 10:48:55 AM »
Looks like loads of fun!  I don't however think those Wilson 1200's are forged! ;)

Cheers

I have a set of Wilson 1200's in the back that I replaced with Staff blades in 1976 that I also still own. Classic win a tournament and buy harder to hit clubs and then not win again.

We did a similar thing at Pajaro a few years back.  It was great fun.  I'm sure Pete Galea has some pics.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2013, 11:57:07 AM »
We did a similar thing at Pajaro a few years back.  It was great fun.  I'm sure Pete Galea has some pics.

Hopefully with you wearing a plastic bag over your head in the absence of an umbrella.  A really fun day with you, Fortson and Benham. 

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

jonathan_becker

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2013, 12:54:46 PM »
MM,

The cool part of this photo is that at a quick glance, you would think it was 40 years ago instead of present day.  Great shot.


Colin Macqueen

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2013, 01:57:13 PM »
Matthew,
This sounds like a cracker of an idea. I ne'er got a sniff that this was going down!!!!!! Maybe that is just as well as I had to be overseas anyway and would have been miffed that I was missing it.

BUT if it gets up again next year I am relying on your good self or Brett to give me a right royal heads up and I will be done from Brisbane in a flash with Hogan persimmon woods and Apex irons at the ready!  Seve was a great hero of mine ... swashbuckling, adventurous and thrilling. Don't let me down. The paella looks pretty good there  but did it have the requisite amount of crust!

Cheers from crusty Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Matthew Mollica

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2013, 05:08:48 PM »
For those who asked, the balls, including Tour Balata, Tour Professional, and even a few old Titleist Pro Traj balls were sourced from eBay, and the domestic equivalent. I've still got one dozen of the Tour Balata in the black packaging, left from my youth.

And Tom, you'd be welcome to join us. You'd like the look of St Andrews Beach currently. One if the advantages of a course not having loads of money - they don't undertake costly projects which might make the course worse!

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Mike_Clayton

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2013, 05:52:56 PM »
I played with a 1980 Pro-Traj Titelist 100. It had lost something but felt beautiful to pitch with and the feel off the wood was something sadly lost.
3 observations.
The 'small' drivers are not that hard to hit
No one hits that massive high right block shot with the driver. It's the curse of the modern drivers and erratic players who hit that shot three times a round (the norm it seems to me) would score lower with persimmon.
It showed how ridiculously long courses have become in order to cater for the silly modern ball.

Tom,

It was a pretty stiff wind into us at 9 - but for me it was a good drive and a one iron. I know that's hard to believe - and it's an awfully hard one iron shot into that green.

Richard Chamberlain

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2013, 06:20:16 PM »
Fixed it for you Matty.


Ken Moum

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2013, 07:49:34 PM »
What a lovely idea for an Open Championship weekend. 

Maybe next year I can play along with you... here in the US.

I have plenty of persimmon and blades, including the 1958 Haig Ultra irons my dad bought new.  And several Macgregor drivers and fairways from the 40s and 50s.



Note, however, that I will most likely be using the sand wedge out of that set, which measures 59*, or one of my pyratone-shafted pitching niblicks from the early 1930s, which measure 60-61*.  The R-20 in that picture, which is 80 years old, measures 59*.

Like many others, you've fallen for the myth that those guys didn't use 60* wedges. When in fact, 1930s and 950s Wilson sand wedges were bringing big money in the 80s from pros who liked them better than the "new" stuff.  And lots of them were actually lob wedges.

If you doubt that it's true, you can come to Topeka and measure a few of mine:





Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Matthew Mollica

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2013, 07:50:09 PM »
Thanks Rich! Looks as good as it could possibly look, given some of the ugly heads in it! :)

Also, for those curious, most of us mixed up the tees from which we played. Back markers when down wind, and moved up a set or two into it. Our handicaps were also adjusted, for those keen to have a little competition. Extra strokes were awarded depending on the age of the equipment, how much persimmon you carried, the kind of ball used, level of effort with costume etc..

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Shane Gurnett

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2013, 08:03:56 PM »
A terrific day Matty, thanks for posting the pics. Was great to see everyone get into the spirit of the day by using the old gear. Persimmon really isn't that difficult to use, provided you remember your fundamentals and restrain yourself from going for the big wild thrash at the ball (as you can do quite successfully with the modern drivers).



St Andrews Beach looked and played great as usual. Gosh its an underappreciated golf course. And perfect for the day we had.


David_Elvins

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Re: Balata, Persimmon, Seve and Doak
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2013, 08:12:09 PM »
Good work Matt and Shane, Sorry I couldn't make it.  Looks like a great day.


Clayts,

Welcome to my world.  I have hit a long iron into that green many times during the winter months.  The tenth tee and trees on the right become very close to the green when I am hitting a long iron.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

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